I definitely agree with your opinion about what the most important quality is! I cringe every time I see a post on here about how a rose someone bought is awful, or not living up to their expectations, or is going to be shovel pruned....and then they mention that it has only been planted for 2 or 3 months!

I would vote for tolerance for imperfections as the second most important - if I was not tolerant of some imperfections, I could not have any garden at all, let alone one with roses!

Jackie

" What else do you think helps you be a successful rose gardener"?
The Rewards-the soft smell of a rose, how the peddles feel between my fingers. Just the joy of picking a beautiful rose that I and the guy up- stairs created. Remembering about all the sweat, PAIN and worry that went into creating something so beautiful. Roses are like babies you feed them and care for them and enjoy them. As they grow you stand back in amazement.

Nice post. A zillion botany degrees , etc., would mean nothing without the qualities in the first section.

And Cynthia, my first bare root rose was planted upside down...think it was Perdita. DUH, Susan. I didn't know my graft from a hole in the ground.

What you said, Cynthia, plus, stop acting like the parent of your first, brand new baby! EVERYTHING is NOT an emergency. 99% of the "problems" are not life threatening. Calm down! That's what I would add to your required qualities.

Susan, you weren't alone. Back in 1989 when I planted my enormous old Newhall garden, one of the residents in the HOA walked across the golf course to complain about the local, family owned, long established (actually quite marvelous!) "garden center" because they sold her bum roses. She related how she bought the "body bag" plants and followed their instructions to the letter, which she related. Once she finished, I asked her if she had removed them from their plastic bags... Nope! "No one TOLD me to!" I asked her if she read the instructions on the packages. Nope. Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 22:26

Realization that not every rose is meant for every area.

Patience! We can't say it enough! Let them have time (years) to grow roots. They need roots before blooms. Patience! Doing too much is worse than doing nothing except watering. Thank you so much!!!

Enthusiasm, empathy, sensuality. Good parenting is fine, but you also have to be a good lover.

All of the above, but I might add that it helps to have good clotting factors in your blood.

Cynthia.....

I really like your post. There is one thing that I would add to your list and, yes, it ties in perfectly with what you think is the most important quality needed quality for a rose gardener ... patience.

That one more thing is to have patience with yourself. Gardening is a learn-as-you go kind of thing and mistakes will be made. Instead of beating yourself up, learning that you are in the process of becoming a rose gardener and must be patient with yourself takes the stress out of the learning process.

I am still learning.

Smiles,
Lyn

Selective vision is good: as long as the rose is simply in some "phase" (and not exhibiting a problem that can be definitively diagnosed and dealt with and won't go away on its own), ignore it and look at what IS looking good in the garden (no rose is perfect all the time). Corollary: have enough other stuff to look at in the meantime. All of these suggestions are great, but I can especially relate to "good clotting factors" -- my yard and experience in a nutshell :-).

This post was edited by catspa on Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 23:45

Things I think are important to being a gardener

#1 an appreciation for nature and an understanding that perfect (clean tidy no damage etc) is not natural.

#2 a reasonable expectation of the amount of time you are willing to spend in your garden. If you only want to spend a couple of hours a month and want your mow/blow guy to do the work, you need to have a mow blow style garden.

#3 An understanding that nature is the final authority in your yard, you might want something that does not grow in your area, but nature will win

#4 Reasonable expectations from the plants you pick. If I were to pick out climbing Austins and want them to be two feet tall, I am going to fail. It is not the plants fault.

#5 Willingness to try different things and understanding that just because something works for one person does not mean it will work for you.

#6 And of course patience patience patience

Of course a strong back, knees, hands, no desire for perfect nails, lots of old clothes play a part too..lol

Oh Kim! LOLOL.

I would add Independence. Although some of us have gardening partners, many of us happily garden alone. We love company in the garden but are quite happy to do our puttering independently.

Also, I don't think you can undervalue common sense. I can understand Susan planting a band upside down. I can't understand Kim's "bury the body bag" lady. If she followed the instructions that meant she soaked those roses in the bag...and if I think about all the instructions...common sense is very important.

Lastly, i think it tAkes "patience" bordering on "stubborn". Very few of us shovel prune with abandon. Theres a secret part of many of us who simply refuse to let a rose best us. We love roses and want to enjoy them. However when a rose we have carefully tended bypasses "having problems" and heads into "difficult"...well, lets just say we gear up for war. We may say that we enjoy the challenge of it but there's no denying the sense of smug satisfaction we get when we prevail. When we lose a battle we still get a sense of smug satisfaction when we shovel prune the enemy- i mean problem rose. Or maybe that's just me :-)

I have a different point of view. I strive to find the roses that like my climate, like my soil and like a certain amount of neglect. I garden for fun and roses that are not suited to my climate are taking up space in the garden where another rose that may like my climate will thrive without struggle.

I do give all of the roses the test of time because I have learned that it takes at least four years for a rose to come into its own in this garden. A plant can look like it's not going to make it the first two or three years and then the next year, it's simply glorious.

A rose has to like my gardening style to survive because I truly don't want to be at war with my garden. It's the place where I find my peace and sanity. There are so many roses I want to grow that I simply don't have room for them all, so if a rose is struggling in the garden after four years, I don't mind shovel pruning it at all.

I have a difficult and challenging garden for roses, but when I find the plants that like it here, I am in bliss.

Smiles,
Lyn

Lyn,

I smiled as I read your post. It IS just me. I love my garden like crazy and find my bliss there. There is this part of me that gets such a sense of satisfaction and joy from my roses. When a problem pops up I lovingly treat it.

Then there was The Flower Carpet rose. War ensued. It's meant to be the perfect rose - Disease resistant, vigorous and beautiful. I only just managed to free it from diseases after two years of gorilla warfare. Took forever. I truly believed that rose was difficult just to spite me.

It may be my personality though, I once declared war on a bag of semi precious stones while making necklaces. They weren't drilled properly and I was determined to make something beautiful out of them.

Instead of "stubborn" I should have said "persistence". My persistence just happens to manifest itself as warmongering stubbornness.

:-)

I enjoy reading this post!
Debbie, I completely agree with the requirement of the clotting factors. LoL
Mirendajean, It is not just you...I will also be one to declare an all out war, I like winning. :)

Although it falls under, "a love for nature," I would like to specify, a love for bees. I know a few people who "love nature" but go absolutely mad when a bee flies around their head. :)

sorry, double post

This post was edited by growing_rene on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 8:08

Heehee, I'm with Kim, I read the title of the post and thought 'skin that heals quickly.'

I agree with all above, although I have to say that I'm in the camp of people who let go of problem roses instead of going to war to try to make them do better. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the work of my multiple rose/flower/veggy/fruit gardens without any prima donnas who require extra attention. My gardens are subject to some Darwinian winnowing, those that are not fit enough do not survive. The one thing they get is time (and water, of course,) if time does not heal their problems they have to go. I really haven't let go of very many though, mostly the HT's I got in my first flush of rose buying. Once I started learning about what else was out there and disease resistance the collection grew, and the new roses made the older roses look bad. I realized that no matter how vibrant the flower color, if I had to look at spotty diseased canes and leaves the plant was not beautiful.

I am also a lover of bees, I was watering the roses the other day and one kept landing on my hand to drink from the dampness on it. A little freaky, I'll admit, but also kind of cool, they feel so soft when they land on you. I think not being afraid of bees makes you less likely to be stung, because you don't wave your arms around and frighten them into thinking they are in danger.

My garden this year has been my escape from stress. I find puttering around every day for even just five minutes helps me relax! I have pets, but my roses have become my babies too :)

Patience. I say this is the one thing most needed!!!! And love, plus respect, for nature. I am terrified of spiders but in my garden for some reason I am way more tolerant of them. I still run screaming like a little girl if they jump on me or come too close, but this is better than avoiding entire rooms for days because one was hiding in a corner! I sort of can't avoid the great outdoors entirely LOL.

I'm still a noob at this, and I NEVER thought I'd suddenly turn into an outdoorsy plant person. I guess my genes just needed some time to kick in as both sets of grandparents were avid gardeners... It skipped my folks and took 33 years to catch up with me :D I got a lot to learn and love the list!

Regarding music, I practiced, I sucked. You can take a minimal level of talent and improve. I didn't reach that threshold. I practiced golf every day for many years, took regular lessons and didn't improve as much as would be expected considering the effort.

The number #1 skill is observation and #2, which I didn't see, is following simple instructions.

Here, it's money to pay the water bill.

Instead of "stubborn" I should have said "persistence". My persistence just happens to manifest itself as warmongering stubbornness.

Yes, I like the word "persistence" better, but the real thing that has improved my gardening experience is learning from the roses.

This year I moved two roses that were struggling that I knew had the potential to be solid plants. They had been in the ground for three years and were on the SP list. They are thriving in their new locations. It only took them a month to find their feet and start growing well and blooming their heads off ... that's where observation comes into play.

I also removed nine roses that had had their chance. I gave them to a friend who has a different microclimate. I planted ten new roses that another friend propagated for me. All of the new roses are doing better in their first season than the roses I let go.

It's not easy to move plants in my garden, but I really liked those two roses and siting them differently made all of the difference in their performance.

There is a time to fight and there is a time for strategic retreat. I'd rather fight the weeds than the roses.

As for music ... haha ... My God-family is totally musically oriented. Two of my brothers are now professional musicians with the San Francisco Ballet and Symphony. When we were growing up, we had all kinds of music in the house. Brass bands, Dixieland bands, rock bands, chamber music groups and more. I loved it. BUT my family took a vote and the outcome was that I was best at appreciating music because all of my efforts were driving the others nuts ! I am tone deaf, they all had perfect pitch so I couldn't even sign along. But none of them can garden. We all have our talents.

Smiles,
Lyn

Cool! I love seeing everyone else's perspectives and it's fun to boil down something that we passionately love into the qualities that are the most important, particularly for newbies. Like the "breaking the rules" thread that is circulating, we're allowed to skip some of these qualities or add others we think are essential because we're already hooked and we have methods that work for us. For newbies, we help to promote their appreciation and use of these essentials long before we worry about "rose knowledge".

Just to keep a running tally, here's my original list plus my version of collective wisdom that's been added since then. I've grouped or interpreted some individual comments in the interest of simplicity, and added a few of my own:

Patience
Persistence
Good observation skills
Willingness to learn from your experience (and other people's)
Patience
Willingness to try something new
Common sense (e.g. the root part goes down, leaves are good)
Patience
Liking to putter around outside
Appreciating small successes and beauty
Patience
Decent soil, or the inclination to improve yours
Tolerance of imperfections
Patience
Water

New ones:
Pain tolerance (and quick healing) - roses have thorns (mostly). My husband commented "you realize that roses are like having barbed wire all over the yard", and I thought "yup...and???"
Ook tolerance (including bugs, worms, dirt, slime, alfalfa...)
Personal fulfillment - relieving stress, having independent time
Keeping it simple - procedures, instructions
Respect (and love) for nature, including its ooky or eeky bits
Trust - the rose, yourself, nature
Tempering expectations and acknowledging reality
Appreciating the senses
Good steward of the land - not causing harm when possible
Calmness, not worrying too much
And several aspects of BALANCE, like the analogy of parenting:
- Balancing benefits (aesthetics, enjoyment) to cost (time, energy, the environment) and knowing when enough is enough
- Balancing the wish to nurture with allowing independence, and knowing how to tell the difference (my vote is for encouraging roses to be independent as soon as possible)
- Balancing vision (of what could be, dreams) with reality, and being honest with yourself when things really aren't working
And not necessary, but more fulfilling - the desire to share the beauty and joy of roses with others (even if most of us grow them independently)

Since we all are striving for these kinds of qualities, I think this concept underscores why GW discussions are so rewarding. It's not just the roses, it's the way roses capture and nurture something more about our lives and what we want to share with others around us.

Cynthia

I'm definitely a new gardener, but a few I've already picked up. And as time goes by hopefully I'll pick up more :) Definitely remembering that you only have room for a certain amount helps out(Though it never stops me from dreaming about when I have more space!) Thankfully I've the patience most of the time. Nowadays everyone asks "Cats or Roses?" When they see new scratches.

Though I tried the flute for 4 years, I definitely didn't have the talent to brag. My cousin though, he could make a violin sing!

Dang it all....you've left off SENSE OF HUMOR.

Sense of Humor will carry me past a lot of things. Patience for the long haul, but sense of humor for day to day.

Dang it all....you've left off SENSE OF HUMOR.

Sense of Humor will carry me past a lot of things. Patience for the long haul, but sense of humor for day to day.

Dang it all....you've left off SENSE OF HUMOR.

Sense of Humor will carry me past a lot of things. Patience for the long haul, but sense of humor for day to day.

Why of course, Ann - how could we forget a sense of humor! After all the threads on embarrassing moments in the garden or worst mistakes, how could we doubt our collective sense of humor or the therapeutic value of it as rose gardeners! When JBs, gophers, or repeated death of a rose you insist on growing keeps happening, thank goodness we can still laugh - and make a good story out of it! That's definitely on the list.

QuestioningSerenity - you're fortunate that you get asked "cats or roses" - most people assume I have a particularly vicious dog, and only one person in the past 3 years has guessed roses. I guess it works better than a "keep off the grass" sign - if my dog/cat is fierce enough to scratch me up that badly, yeah, you'd better keep your distance! Of course, if they're fellow gardeners, I totally welcome them here!

Cynthia

Hoovb, you are right. No water, no roses. Everything else comes second. More water = better roses.

In this dry place you have to be willing to shovel mulch. Lots of it. And with all that water and mulch, you have to be willing to prune...unless you have the gift of a very large garden and you have the plants very far apart. It's pretty easy to get fast rose satisfaction around here as long as you water and mulch and weed. No one near me grows the truly large rose plants and so weeding is required. I saw a fair number of well planted rose beds fall to weeds and then get abandoned or removed. The major cause of rose disaster here is not disease but the lack of water, improper pruning due to crews and weed takeover.

Patience really helps. I was sure I got something else instead of Lion's rose. The little bitty nothing special flowers and small size bush. Then after it had some root growth for a few years, up came the robust canes and sprays of huge delicate hued blossoms fading gently to white. I just love this rose now. I was so very discouraged when it was a young plant. It's a wonderbush as a large plant.

I learned to be realistic about what would do well here and let go of the ones that wanted to be in a different climate from mine. I learned to reduce the number of plants to what I could care for.

A few years ago, I passed that point and I was feeling overwhelmed. I had many annual beds and too many potted fussy plants and those that needed water twice a day ( the big collection of potted azaleas, hydrangeas and blueberries with their never ending thirst) . It looked great but I was getting tired out keeping it all looking good. Now it's mostly roses and Camellias with some other things like epies and orchids and one or two azaleas and hydrangeas but not the massive diverse collection I used to have. It was getting to be too expensive to water and repot them all the time. Now that's it mainly roses, I feel like I have time to enjoy them again.

Sorry about the multiple posts. There are times when I can't tell if Hughesnet has managed to get through to GW or not.

This time I even checked by opening GW on a second window and it didn't show that my message had gone through even once.

I forgot all the fuschias and a big tall fescue lawn. I was queen of the water usage back then. I had lots of little annuals all around the roses so I couldn't put on heavy layers of mulch. Now it's bulb city under the mulch.

A really good rose gardener is practical and knows what he has to sacrifice for the best performance. I moved walkways to get to the best morning sun and cut down trees whose roots were causing trouble or casting too much shade. You have to know when you blew it by planting roses too close or that one that always gets sick and passes it on to the others every year. And you have to be willing to admit your errors to yourself and make corrections even when it's hard work and you really wanted that plant in that spot. You have to look at things critically sometimes which can be very hard to do when you have time and money and feelings invested.

Gardeners Hands!! ;-) I've accepted that no matter how often my boys remind me to use gloves I will have manky hands...

{{gwi:319745}}

I know that I'm brown, but if you look closely you can see bruises under the rose scratches...
{{gwi:319746}}

{{gwi:319747}}

Probably the most critical quality is discernment.

Examples of why:

Discernment is required for learning from one's own garden experience, reading gardening books, and here on these forums, i.e., learning from others.

On this forum, the rate at which contradictory posts occur in the same thread is astonishing. Often this is due to "location, location, location," but often not. For success, one must be able to distinguish between fact, opinion, and fiction. Over time, one comes to recognize that certain authors only contribute in the less valuable of these categories, and others the more valuable ones. But to grow and succeed, one must be able to discern the difference.

There are gardening books (and not just a few) that are entirely worthless for gleaning any valuable knowledge.

And discernment is certainly required for learning from one's own garden experience.

Discernment - that's the most critical.

That's taking away half the fun sandand sun. I love the impossible gardens in magazine photo shoots and books where nothing is reasonable and makes you want to go out and try something over the top but completely unrealistic for your area. I especially like the outdoor rooms with fully dressed beds of antique linens and a dressing screen on the perfectly kept grass with flowers out of season planted there for the photograph. I'm sure the bugs all know to keep away and there are no raccoons around to spoil the elegant linens draping off onto the flowery lawn. I've always wanted to try something decadent like that during spring flush.

Just about everything said so well above resonates with me, except for mirendajean's tenacity in nursing back roses from the brink of disaster. I've been all too ready to send unhappy roses to rose heaven, usually without regret, but not always. Lack of patience is one of my faults, and that's why I've always said I'm not a gardener in the true meaning of the word.

What can I add to the above? Almost nothing really, that would apply to all gardeners. One quality applies to me, and it is my driving force, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this. It's a vision I hold deep in my heart of creating an earthly paradise that is uniquely mine, which will satisfy all my senses and make me eager to go outside every morning and make it the last place I long to see before it's dark at night. Sometimes, in a few magic hours or days, I feel I've come close to my vision. It's always fleeting, and soon the weather, disease and non-performing roses blur the picture. But the memory lingers and I keep on trying.

Maybe that's a sort of patience after all.

Ingrid

I had to chuckle, reading your post, Ingrid. Perhaps the "persistent vision" in the face of frequent opposition is a type of "self delusion"? I think we've all pretty much faced that kind of opposition. Diseases which appear from nowhere and refuse to be controlled. Vermin which seem almost supernatural, appearing out of the blue and disappearing back into it after munching the roots, flowers, hips or canes, leaving only their handiwork as evidence. Promised rains which never materialize. Yet, in our optimistic delusion, we stubbornly soldier on in hopes of creating reality of that vision! I devour the sumptuous photos of densely planted borders, full of texture and color. I have to keep reminding myself they can only exist where there is actual "soil" and the rain totals significantly more than about a foot a year, many recent years, only a fraction of that. Kim