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| Hi!
I have been growing things for a while, but this year I decided to actually be aggressive about it. I have this space next to my front stoop which gets good sun, and I want to transform it into a scent garden where you can enjoy your morning coffee, that sort of thing. I have an old split rail fence that I have taken down from the backyard and I am putting it around this nook. So this is my plan for 2013. Mostly it's roses. I already have the peonies en route. I have researched all of these and selected them all based on hardiness, BS resistance, and fragrance. I have tried California Dreamin' once before: it had one beautiful flower and promptly died on me. I am willing to try again. I think that Strawberry Hill will be replaced with Dames de Chenonceau - it's just that the pictures make them look so ugly. Same with Double Delight. Such a great smell on such an unfortunate plant. I eventually gave it away because it was just not to my liking. I am in the air, because I want to try out DdC, but here in the US, there's only one person selling them. Makes me feel a bit iffy. SO: before I go ahead and make a commitment to these roses, have I overlooked something? Missed something? Should some of these be moved for more appeal? I read that Vavoom can be blackspotty. I spray with vinegar and water. Are some of these, in your opinion, totally overrated? Keep in mind that ten of these are not yet bought and therefore are still negotiable. I am planting each one three feet from the other. Hopefully not too close. And the central bed is just a concept. In case my picture does not come through, here is a list of what I have planned:
Left column, top to bottom
Bottom row, next the house
Right column, next to the walkway:
Largely the walkway is lined with peonies because thorns really suck. Other peonies include Mrs. Franklin D. Roosevelt, Sarah Bernhardt, Kirinmaru, Gay Paree, and Karl Rosenfeld. Other hedges include a Jasmine which is currently climbing like mad and a gardenia that is green but not very bloomy, Lavender Munstead, a Madonna Lily, some sweat peas, some carnations and sweet williams, hyacinths and a few lilacs elsewhere in the yard. I went for the big guns. All advise would be very appreciated. Best,
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| How large is this area??? How much space are you allowing between plants? Jeri |
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| 3 feet from center to center. I am a planner so I have marked every spot already. I was thinking of changing this so that the roses are more staggered but in my plans it looks messy. Part of the reason I have chosen this is because the sections of split-rail fencing I have have dictated the amount of space I have. |
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| Oh, sorry. I didn't answer your question completely. My space is roughly 18x21. I have a little bit of flexibility about the exact dimensions. It is all a full-morning-sun to filtered-late-afternoon location. Historically, it's been like Valhalla for Roses. They don't produce so much now because the soil has been depleted and only now have I taken on the job of adding nutrients composts. They are already perking back up. I should have said that in the first place. Sorry. |
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| I don't know, Jaske -- It looks like a LOT of plants for the amount of space -- but I am in Southern California. Maybe they get bigger, here. Generally speaking, tho, I'd consider 3 ft. centers to be pretty stingy, possibly leading to lack of air flow, which would encourage disease. I would be more likely to plan for 4 ft. centers . . . Back when I actually PLANNED things, that's what we did. Jeri |
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| All of the advice I have read seems to go for 2.5 to 3 feet spacing for HTs. In fact, my 3 foot rule seems rather generous, for a lot of the advice I have read - but that makes me nervous now. All of our existing roses are 3 feet, and some of them are now caning to 5 feet tall (all but CA Dreamin' which succumbed to inclement weather). Aphids had a party on one of them before I started doing some treatments, but no BS at all. Some of the advice that I read says 30"-one even 24"!-and that really does seem too little. Only the David Austins seem to indicate 4 feet spacing. This has me in a panic. I can, of course, alter the plans to 4 ft spacing and chuck some, but I am not sure if that needs to be. Thanks Jason |
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| If you have a true winter and will get some die back from it then you should be OK at 3 foot on center. In warmer climates with longer growing seasons roses will get larger so you would need a little more room. You picked some lovely roses but I do see a lot of HTs and if you want or expect them to have spotless leaves all the time you will have to spray. |
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| Jason -- A lot depends upon where you are. Your zone numbers don't tell us that. Your spacing would be very crowded where I am. Jeri |
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| I am in the Upper South, in North Carolina. We do not get a true winter - not a truly cold, extended one replete with snow - but a very dry, cold snap into the upper teens at night, 20s in the morning that lasts for a couple of months. (I am originally from Canada so I still grade NC winters by Ontario standards, and they don't at all measure up. Thank God.) It's enough to cause dieback and dormancy in plants and not enough for it to cause it in people. Long growing season: that freak last frost that catches you off-guard is in early April, first one is generally early November. Humid often so manually fighting BS is a given. My father retired to Southern California - his plants are monsters, bigger than mine have ever been, and he has an orange tree in his front yard. With oranges. (Not at ALL jealous. WITH ORANGES!) I really appreciate you taking the time out to help me with this. Half of my issue is that I am not native to this area, and while I do have the time and patience for a really extraordinary garden - and I am absolutely determined to create one - I have to make realistic decisions for the area. The spacing is one issue. So looking at my list, which ones would you say need to go? Because if the spacing must be changed, there are surely some that can go. Thank you, Jason |
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| I know that Jude the Obscure can get very big. Mine is about 10X8 feet now. I prune back in early spring, and have very little winter dieback. I also have two very wide Julia Child roses that couldn't begin to fit in a 3' center to center. Memorial Day so far for me is quite upright, but is getting bigger, and it's only a year old. I have Twilight Zone and it's described as a grandiflora. It's looking like it will be pretty big already after a few months in the ground. So, depending on your climate conditions, these roses could get too big for their britches in the space you have alotted for them. Diane |
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| 10x8! Hmm, I heard rumors that Jude the Obscure might get like that. I can move it away to another sunny location in the yard and let it go nuts. So I'll strike that from this particular plan. My Julia Child hasn't gotten too big this year, so I suppose I can leave it be. I have not yet bought Memorial Day or Twilight Zone yet. I can scotch either one. Thank you! |
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| Jake, I am in the same general area, NE Georgia. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with most of your roses. The HTs like Mr. Lincoln (which I do have) will not get that wide. ML gets very tall, and I see you have it right outside your porch and Fragrant Cloud (I also have) right in the front, as I do. Those both will need to be sprayed or they will defoliate and not bloom well, at least in my experience. Most of the Austins get large and are more wide than tall, so I'd leave room for them. Also, as far as soil goes, lots of amendments and MULCH!! I'm not sure if you have clay, as we do here. It can be difficult to work with at first, but if you amend and mulch, it can be very good water retaining and nutrient filled soil. |
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- Posted by kentucky_rose Z6 KY (My Page) on Mon, Aug 27, 12 at 7:42
| The Flawless that I bought several years ago from N'East was a miniflora. The pictures look alike and it was ownroot. I kept waiting for it to thrive and it never did, finally SP'd it. |
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| hi there this is impressive i mean your plan, u seem to be an interesting person my Mom is also into gardening n she loves flowers i am a student at IT Training Nepal so i am quite busy but i manage to help my Mom once in a while,,the discussion in this forum seems really helpful thanks for all.. |
Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.ittrainingnepal.com/
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| If you're not going to get a long deep freeze that will cause winter die back then you should probably give them more space. Otherwise you'll have to prune them deep in the spring to keep them in bounds. |
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| Thank you! I took out all of my David Austin roses. I remeasured, took out several of the chunkier proposed roses, were increased the distances to 4 feet. The DAs will be moved to a sunny island elsewhere in the yard. I very much appreciate your input! |
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- Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 31, 12 at 17:40
| I have Scepter'd Isle, allow it twice the room stated in Austin Catalog (4' x 2.5')... It should be 4' x 5' for my zone 5a, and much bigger for your zone 7b. Predfern in my zone 5a grows Strawberryhill - he said it's VERY BIG. He peggs his Dame de Chenonceau. He informed me that Sheila's perfume is very thorny like Radio Times that I have. Scepter'd Isle is a water-hog, the color is best in partial shade, since it bleaches out to white in full-sun. It shoots out uneven octopus canes, needs frequent pruning. I got pricked by its far-reaching arms a few times. I also plan on Chartreuse de Parme for my garden next year. I'm not sure it will like my alkaline clay soil. |
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