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| I've been researching Parkinson's disease. One prominant theory is that insecticide use correlates with Parkinson's. Caveate Emptor. If roses won't live in my garden without sprays, I let them rest in peace. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| I don't like using any chemical sprays either. Living on the lake I know where all those chemicals eventually end up. |
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- Posted by socks12345 Zone 9 (My Page) on Sat, Aug 11, 12 at 11:15
| I applaud you both. We've had roses 30+ years, and we do not spray at all. We do struggle with mildew and rust, but it's not horrible. I'd rather replace a susceptible bush than spray, and I did just that with Tropicana (mildew). We have lots of lizards which eat many insects. |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Sun, Aug 12, 12 at 11:47
| Henry had posted a couple of weeks ago that Dr. Thiruchelvam had admitted that she faked the research behind 2 papers linking pesticides to Parkinson's and she has retracted the 2 papers. Hard for laypeople to know what to believe when even scientific data becomes suspect, you know? |
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| Hard for laypeople to know what to believe when even scientific data becomes suspect, you know? But there is always common sense. Toxic is toxic. Balance with birds and predatory insects and tolerating a little damage is a good long term solution. Common sense. |
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| I agree, hoov! I do occasionally resort to sprays but even then I try to use the least toxic ones I kind find, like Green Cure and Serenade, even though they are definitely not as effective as the big guns. And I only spray for fungus, never for insects. Almost all insects have a "season" and will eventually disappear on their own so I don't bother. And the great thing is that now that I have stopped spraying for them I've found I actually have less of the bad guys anyway! Seems the good guys are doing a fine job of keeping them in check all on their own. |
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| A rosarian of my acquaintance once pointed out that "cide" indicated that the material was designed to kill SOMETHING. It just makes (as Hoov says) COMMON SENSE to use as little "cide" as possible. We're all gonna die some day, but I'm darned if I want to die of a problem caused by something I paid money for, and sprayed on my roses! Jeri |
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- Posted by nitric_acid 5 (My Page) on Mon, Aug 13, 12 at 8:27
| But there is always common sense. And studies have shown that "common sense" isn't so common; that people make all kinds of bad decisions based on irrational emotional responses instead of data. |
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| It seems to me that many products are approved, because those in control give evidence that they are safe, and the victims cannot prove otherwise. (hormones and bone density drugs for example). I stopped using chemicals years ago, and am pleased that I made that decison. I have been asking myself what I will do if we have an epidemic year for tick, and I am not sure, but do not intend to use them anymore. There are times of the year when all my roses seem to have blackspot. Then the new leaves appear so quickly that I have forgotten that week or two that the garden does not look good. I do purchase roses that are supposed to be disease resistant, but sometimes nothing is disease resistant. Sammy |
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| Well, this has nothing to do with roses, but . . . You may have heard about the West Nile Virus outbreak in Dallas County and other North Texas Areas. Several deaths and quite a few people in the hospital fighting for their lives. I know three of the people who contracted it, one is still in ICU, and my yard man's sister-in-law was the one (so far) death in Ellis County. There has been a huge brouhaha in Dallas over the last several weeks with one group of health officials wanting aerial spraying (in addition to the ground spraying which hasn't proved effective enough) and another (this group includes the district attorney)who won't allow it to happen unless the city council votes to take responsibility by authorizing the aerial spraying. It's all over the news, and the outbreak is getting worse and worse as days go by. Many people won't go out in the late evening or early morning hours, and many keep their children, especially babies, and older people inside. Of course, there are those people who don't read the newspapers or watch the news on TV who are probably enjoying their mornings and evenings outside, unaware that they might be in danger. Yeah, I know, we're always in danger of something, but this one seems to be getting out of hand. I sure don't like the idea of aerial or any kind of insecticide spraying even in the areas hardest hit, but . . . It's hard to know which way to go to protect your health in a case like this one. Like I said, this isn't about roses, so we can go back to that topic now. : ) |
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| You gave me a good laugh, Jeri. Now about the choice between West Nile Virus and insecticides, that's a tough one. I think I would opt to stay inside and read a book. |
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| You gave me a good laugh, Jeri. Now about the choice between West Nile Virus and insecticides, that's a tough one. I think I would opt to stay inside and read a book. |
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| I don't know how they would do it there -- but various Southern California areas have been sprayed from the air from time to time. The most common thing sprayed that way has been malathion -- but it's been years since I've been in an area where things were sprayed. It's "politically incorrect," of course. No one wants it, and I am inclined to believe it's a last-resort. (I wonder if we might get it if/when the Asian Citrus Psyllid gets here.) Anyhow, in all cases of which I've been aware, spraying was done at night. People were warned to cover their cars and fishponds and the like. When it was done here, I don't really know whether it was effective against the fruitfly they were aiming at, but I know we had no FLEAS here for a couple of years. Jeri |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Tue, Aug 14, 12 at 10:25
| EEK! I hope it didn't sound like I was advocating the use of insecticides or pesticides, because personally I don't use them. Then again, I've never had thrips and I don't exhibit. I'm just saying that with the prevalence of good AND bad information available electronically, you can't unring that bell. Remember that fiasco with vaccination - autism link? Huge amount of common sense fail on that one. |
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| Commom sense dictates an emotional reaction to the threat of disability and an untimely death. |
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- Posted by nitric_acid 5 (My Page) on Wed, Aug 15, 12 at 21:43
| Commom sense dictates an emotional reaction to the threat of disability and an untimely death. Exactly my point. The best decision will be made with a logical, rational approach. An emotional reaction will guarantee a poor decision is made. This is exactly how advertisers get you to spend money on things you don't need, and how politicians get you to vote against what is in your own best interest. |
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| Aww nitric, I know your type. My husband has a PhD in statistics. He's all logic and intellect on the outside, but inside he's mush like the rest of us. Do you even grow roses? |
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- Posted by nitric_acid 5 (My Page) on Thu, Aug 16, 12 at 21:46
| Aww nitric, I know your type. My husband has a PhD in statistics. He's all logic and intellect on the outside, but inside he's mush like the rest of us. Do you even grow roses? Do you mean like these?
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| Absolutely gorgeous. I wish you had labeled them. And you are right about the voters. I never imagined "good country people" would be so impractical to vote against their own self-interest. However, I wish you would change your name. It reminds me of Nitro, West Virginia, that always smells so bad when we sail by on the I-64. |
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- Posted by nitric_acid 5 (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 0:01
| The big red one in the middle is Olympiad, Opening Night is next to it, to the left is Love and Peace, on the right (back) is Simply Marvelous. |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 9:46
| See, now you've done it. Logically & rationally I should be toiling away at all things work-related, but emotionally I want to go home and romp around in the roses. Beautiful pic, nitric! |
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- Posted by peachymomo Ca 8 (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 11:44
| I realize I'm chiming in a bit late, but I just had to say that I think an intrinsic distrust of things like poisons, governments, and big corporations is healthy. One has to question whether something is actually in their best interest, or if it is just being foisted on them to make someone else a little richer. Science and statistics are enlightening, but not infallible. A friend of my father's upon graduating from medical school was told that half of what he had just learned was wrong, and they weren't sure which half it was. The more we learn, the more we realize how wrong our previous assumptions were. Therefore, Socrates is still right - he who knows he knows nothing is the wisest. It is my opinion that avoiding poisons and other chemicals as much as possible is better than the alternative. Of course, other people are free to have their own opinions and seek out 'better living through chemistry' and I hope the best for them, and the other creatures living near them. |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 15:09
| Exactly. Of particular importance is the EPA's absolute refusal to educate the public about the dangers of Dihydrogen monoxide, even though that chemical is undeniably responsible for so many deaths & the destruction of property. It's used on a massively widespread scale in industry and there are no regulations on it whatsoever. Anyone can get their hands on it and anyone can use it. (Unless of course, you live where I do.) Snark brought to you by: http://www.dhmo.org/ |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 15:19
| On a serious note, I see that Dallas has made the decision to aerially dust with Duet. |
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| Snopes has a comment about the dangers of Dihydrogen monoxide (water). You are muddying the waters. |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on Sat, Aug 18, 12 at 20:47
| Yes, lainey, it was a joke. Did you look at the link I posted? |
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| Lou - I lived in San Jose, California in the early 1980's when they did aerial spraying with malathion, for the Mediterranean Fruit Fly. That stuff was sticky, and messed up the paint on cars. We bought a car cover we really couldn't afford at that time to try to protect our only car. That, and you had the helicopter with the big spray bars on it, all lit up, going overhead not too FAR overhead. And you certainly couldn't sit out during the spraying, nor did you want any pets outside during it. It was generally nasty. I think if I lived in TX right now, I'd probably slather on the bug repellent if I had to be out at skeeter time. |
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