My concerns would be how cold hardy any rose in pots would be in zone 5a. Those aren't that large for a rose. The smaller the pot, the more susceptible it is to extremes in temperature, both hot and cold. Perhaps if the roses could be planted in the ground, it may work, but I'm doubting those pots would be sufficient for both the size of the rose roots as well as cold protection to the roots. If you need to move them into a garage or somewhere to protect them, you're going to have to prune much of the climbing growth off each fall, so you'd be starting all over again. Perhaps, in your climate and in that situation, your annual vines might be the most suitable and easiest to deal with each season? Kim

If you get larger pots, you could probably grow Wisteria 'Blue Moon' there instead of climbing roses.

:-)

~Christopher

I forgot to mention, I have dirt by the posts although not seen on the picture. Near the bbq grill, a trumpet vine is growing. You can see it at the bottom right of the picture.

The distance of the dirt from the post is like 18 inches only. I'm only thinking of planting at least 2 vines,

I don't like Wisteria blue moon. The scent of the flower is like urine. The racemes is also short, only about 8 inches long.

Would wisteria grow in a 5a garden, anyhow???

Jeri

First off roses do not "vine". They do not have tendrils to grab onto surfaces the way a vine, like ivy, would. You have to train and tie them to the pergola to get them to stay there.

What you're looking for is a climbing rose. Climbers get very long canes that can be trained and secured to a structure. There aren't a lot of them that will stand up to your winters either. Most climbers will have winter die back from the tips down so they never get to be as big as they would in a warm climate. Probably the hardiest one I can think of would be Quadra, which is rated to zone 3, but it is NOT thornless. I can't think of any thornless rose that would get big enough to climb that pergola with your winters. They may winter fine but they'll probably die back to nearly the ground each winter and will never get the kind of growth to grow over that structure. Which thornless one did you find in your research? Knowing the name will help us determine if that rose is hardy or not.

Yes, Jeri, wisteria will grow in zone 5. And the darn stuff still gets huge, lol!

I agree with everything Seil wrote. The only repeat blooming climbing roses I know of that will tolerate USDA zone 5a winters is NEW DAWN and some of the Hybrid Kordesii, all of which have vicious thorns. REINE DES VIOLETTES, a Hybrid Perpetual rose from 1860, is thornless and winter hardy in your zone but I doubt it will grow big enough to climb that pergola. I think your best best is to stick with clematis or one of the more vigorous annual vines (like morning glory or moonflower). BETTY CORNING is a very easy to grow classic clematis with lovely bell shaped lavender-blue blossoms. It is also fragrant, something which can't be said for the majority of clematis available on the market today.

BTW, wisteria BLUE MOON is a variety of our native Kentucky Wisteria (W. macrostachya) and should be hardy in zone 5. I also question the fragrance description. The only wisteria I know of with blossoms said to smell like urine (or cat pee as one poster reported) is AMETHYST FALLS, a variety of American Wisteria (W. frutescens). Don't forget there are four types of wisteria: Chinese, Japanese, Kentucky and American. All are similar yet have their own unique quirks, kinda like roses. LOL!

Below is an image of AWAKENING taken by Lynnette in Canada at the Hortiplex database. Awakening is a doubled sport of New Dawn. I think the thorns are a small price to pay for such beauty.

The old climbers Golden Showers and Blaze are cane hardy climbers here in Central Illinois. They bloom every year!
Good post Seil!

Molineux said what I came back here to say about the wisteria. I had to look high and low for 'Blue Moon' when I wanted it for my garden back on Long Island -- every place was sold out. Some offered 'Amethyst Falls' as a suitable replacement, but I kept hearing reviews about the cat-pee smell to the flowers. I finally found the real thing, and when it bloomed the following year, it most definitely did NOT smell like cat-pee. It was more like a grape soda and sweet-pea combination, and of mild to moderate strength. I moved before I got to see it fully mature, but am considering it again for my place in NJ. And while I don't need it to be, it's very cold-hardy. And had blooms on and off through the summer. And it isn't nearly as rampant as the Asian species. It's more like a big clematis than what most people associate with wisteria.

:-)

~Christopher

Looks like a combination of New Dawn and Boston Ivy would be awesome! Or is Awakening better suited for my zone?

I'm in the northwest of Illinois. I moved here 2001 and I have experienced 3x of -20f-24f but are 3-4 years apart. It only lasted one very early morning. The next few days were just around -10 to -15f.

The problem with wisteria is that the flowers are short-lived. I'm leaning towards roses because the bloom time is longer.

And yes, it could be the amethyst fall's flower that smell like a cat-pee. I couldn't remember which between the two.

Question about the new dawn or awakening, will it reach 10 ft in one season since you said it dies back to the ground? And will it flower on new canes?

Wisteria 'Blue Moon' blooms in a few flushes through the summer. That's why I picked it.

:-)

~Christopher

Your pergola is lovely. Keep in mind that anything blooming will be dropping petals that will need sweeping less they get tracked into the house. Repeat blooming will mean repeat sweeping.

Is Zepherine Drouhin good to 5b? That is thornless. Black Spot disease would likely be a problem, however.

No climbing rose will typically grow 10 feet the first year after planting. They follow the first year sleep/second year creep/third year leap scenario. A well established rose can grow ten feet in a year, but not a baby. Roses take patience, especially in colder growing zones.

Thanks! Looks like most perennial vines are short during the first year. They usually become tall on their third year. I am a patient gardener :)

It's ok for me to clean the mess in my patio. It's an exercise :)

I have REINE DES VIOLETTES and it gets pretty big in zone 5a. Make sure you get a thornless one.

I'm really in love with climbing rose especially when I saw this. Why can't this happen in zone 5a? I don't care about the thorns anymore as long as it can reach the top of my pergola.

{{gwi:322717}}

Simple! It won't happen in Zone 5 because that photo represents a number of years of growth and development. In your zone, as Seil posted, " Most climbers will have winter die back from the tips down so they never get to be as big as they would in a warm climate." That rose you posted is Cl Mlle Cecile Brunner, an excellent climber where suited, but not for anything as severely cold as your zone.

If you're stuck on replicating that look with a rose, your best bet is going to be to use something hardier than your zone requires, such as Quadra. Something that hardy stands the best chances, with time, of building into the mass your photo illustrates. Kim

I was really hoping it might work because for 2 straight years now, our winter has been mild. I can't even believe we'd had 50-60F around February which is very unusual. Previously, our Feb is around -10 to 5f.

IF you can count on those anomalous winter conditions for a while, it probably would work while you have them, but once things return to "normal", you'd lose what you had. Many of us have succeeded in pushing the envelope, growing things not suited to where we are, only to have Nature push back and show us who's the boss. Who knows? If conditions continue changing as dramatically as have been seen in many areas, you just might be able to. That's kind of scary, though. Kim

To get that look in zone 5, look at the hardy once blooming ramblers like Baltimore Belle. They will easily get that big, and have that growth habit. Hardy repeat bloomers tend to be shorter and shrubbier.

I would NOT count on zone 7 winters lasting forever. I'd avoid anything that cannot easily handle winter temperatures of -10, -15F. Unfortunately, that does rule out all but the hardiest climbers.

If that was my pergola, and I was in zone 5, I'd look to plant a few different climbers (not just roses) which bloom at different times, each planted at a different post and trained to grow together along the top. For balance, I could get a duplicate of each to mirror on the other side.

I'd pick a once-blooming climbing rose or two, wisteria 'Blue Moon', some kinds of clematis (type 2 and type 3), and some kind of honeysuckle. The type 3 clematis would need to have some of its stems cut back each Spring to get flowers along the posts (they bloom on new wood), but some stems should also be left to reach the top.

If you did this, you'd see the roses and type 2 clematis offering big flushes together first, then the honeysuckle and type 3 clematis will bloom during the summer, finishing with the repeat-bloom of the type 2 clematis. If you used one of the Autumn-blooming type 3 clematis, that would offer another flush later in the season. Wisteria 'Blue Moon' would give a scattering of blooms on and off throughout.

I'd need much bigger pots -- and make sure they're something that will neither decompose (like wood) nor break in the winter. Planting annuals in the pots will keep them colorful at the base, and offer needed shade for the roots of the clematis.

:-)

~Christopher

AquaEyes, that's my real plan but the dirt by the post is not enough. Maybe there is. I'll post a picture later once I get home.

I'm also thinking of planting Boston ivy to have really nice fall color. I'm planning to have it cover the whole pergola.

Thanks for the idea!

Quick question folks. Will it weaken the climbing rose if I trim the thorns?

I applaud your eagerness, virtu, but I think you need to consider quite a few things before you plant anything.

About those pots. Christopher is correct, you need something that will stand up to your winters. Do not use terracotta or any kind of ceramic pots. They will freeze and shatter probably the first winter. Find the thick walled foam or resin pots and go WAY BIGGER than you think you need. Roses grown in pots occasionally have to be root pruned and given new soil or they'll die. Root pruning means you have to take the pot off and cut back the root ball. That's going to be difficult to do with a 10 ft rose. The bigger the pot the less often you'll have to do that. I have 50 some roses in pots and in my zone 6 I root prune about every 5 years but it also depends a lot on the vigor of the rose you're growing.

Roses also require pruning some times and particularly in cold climates where there is winter kill. It's going to be very difficult to prune them on top of that structure.

Another thing is the pergola itself. What is it made of and is it going to need regular maintenance of some kind? You'll have to be able to remove any growth for that. Some things can be lifted and laid down for maintenance and then put back up. I know I've done that with clematis before in order to paint some posts I have it growing on. Roses tend to be stiffer though and that could be harder to do.

You said there was soil at the base of the posts. How big an area and how deep can you dig there? It looks like you have patio block. You may be able to plant them there if they are small plants to start with. If they can still get water through the patio blocks the roots will be able to spread out beneath it. They'll really do better planted in the ground and will be way less up keep for you too.

My other concern is sunlight. Looks like there's a big tree near by. How much sun does the area get? Roses need at least 6 hours of full sun and more like 8 to grow and bloom well.

I'm not trying do dissuade you. I agree with you that it would be gorgeous. I'm just trying to make sure you enter this well prepared. It's always better to know what to expect and be ready to deal with it.

I mentioned it somewhere above that I won't be planting it in the pot. I have dirt by the post. One sec, I'll take a picture of it. :)

I don't need to take a picture. I have a video of my patio/pergola. If you jump to 1:33, you'll see my honeysucks goldflame. You will also see the dirt I recently mentioned. I called it Honeysucks because I hate the powdery mildew on the leaves. I will rip this honeysuckle soon. I'm thinking of putting Serotina.

On the other side(the other dirt), I will plant New Dawn climbing rose. There is a trumpet vine that is growing right now which I will kill too. I know someone in zone5a who is growing New Dawn and he's never seen it dying back.

About maintaining the garden, it's not an issue for me. I love doing it. In fact, if you watch my video, you will see my dead lawn. It's because I'm renovating it. It's a lot of work but I have done it in front yard before. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bywEB93nDPs

My other concern is sunlight. Looks like there's a big tree near by. How much sun does the area get? Roses need at least 6 hours of full sun and more like 8 to grow and bloom well.

It gets more than 6 hours of sun starting around 10:30am. The current annual vines won't reach the top if it wasn't getting enough sunlight. I planted other annual vines the same time as these one but they only grew 2 ft tall.

This post was edited by v1rtu0s1ty on Sat, Aug 10, 13 at 20:02

Just finished ordering New Dawn climbing rose from Brushwood Nursery. :)

Well, I think you'll love New Dawn! I DO have a suggestion for a hardy, mostly thorn-less climber, however, and that is Felix Le Clerc. Its a new-ish one for me (I have only had it one year) so I can't tell you too much, but it IS mostly thornless and blooms a lot! Supposedly hardy to zone 3. My one hesitation is I'm not sure it'll get big enough for your pergola. Still - worth a look!

Good luck!

Best,

Frances

Thanks for the input :) Appreciate it a lot!