Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
strawchicago

A bunch of questions for rose growers

strawchicago z5
12 years ago

I'm puzzled about Jude the Oscure. Laura in Illinois reported that she planted him in March, and he gave only 3 blooms so far. My William Shakespeare was planted in July in a pot, moved to partial shade, and gave only 5 blooms.

I checked previous forums: Blendguy (Robert) from England said Jude the Obscure prefers heat more than cool weather. Folks in CA give impressive pics of William Shakespeare vs. my puny one.

I'm hesitant on Sharifa Asma since my garden is mostly partial shade. What are the Austins that do best in full-sun so I can avoid them?

Kim: I need your expertise here. My hunch is roses with large petals like hybrid tea need full sun. Jude the Obscure petals are big and incurved - versus James Galway's petals are tiny ruffles, better in partial shade. If you look at shady impatient flowers, their petals are small. On the other hand, sunny petunias' petals are quite large.

My other question is do deep-cup, cabbage-shaped roses like Brother Cadfael, Pretty Jessica, and St. Cecilia need full sun? I'm hesitant on these since they are slow-to-repeat and may ball in wet & cool weather. More shallow-cup like Crown Princess Margareta with small ruffled petals can handle shade better.

Last question is when to plant bare-root? Is it safe to plant BEFORE the last day of frost in spring? I planted geraniums and tomatoes before May 30 in zone 5a - and they were stunt for good from the late frost. When I plant them after frost, June 1, they are OK. I asked Chamblee about this, they said their last day of delivery is May 15, and I should keep them indoor, before planting them in June 1.

That's for bands, but can bareroot be planted BEFORE the last day of frost in the the spring? Many thanks.

Comments (9)

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    12 years ago

    Bare root roses are suppose to be dormant. If planted in cold soil, they tend to stay dormant until the soil warms. When I was getting 10-30 bare roots each spring, I always requested shipment by mid-March and planted them immediately. I just covered them well with a mound of soil so they'ed stay dormant. Usually by late April, new growth would be poking out of the ground. Frosts in late April or May never hurt the growth as spring growth contains a lot of natural sugar, nature's antifreeze. If it was forcast to get too cold, I placed an upside down bucket over them for the night.
    I try to plant bare root roses as soon as I can work the soil in spring, often by mid March. I've even planted them when I had to clear snow from the location or during a late snow storm.
    I often had to waive the guarantee to get the vendors to ship so early.
    Remember, a dormant bareroot rose that has been stored in a refrigerated warehouse for months will stay dormant if planted in cold soil. Nothing happens, not even root growth, until the soil warms.

  • jacqueline9CA
    12 years ago

    Because different roses perform so differently in different climates, I think you need some local advice, or at least advice from a similar climate.

    If I were you I would do two things:

    1) Find a local rose society and talk with them about how various roses perform.

    2) Get the book "Right Rose, Right Place", which is fabulous, and was written about how roses grow in Ohio.

    Jackie

  • michaelg
    12 years ago

    As Karl says, bareroots can be planted as soon as the ground is thawed, with a soil mound to protect any premature shoots. If you have medium to heavy soil, it's best to prepare the site in fall to avoid working wet soil. Early planting may give the roots a head start.

    Around the last light frost, potted roses may be planted.

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    12 years ago

    Jackie, My zone 5a Indiana can't much more similar than Strawberryhill's zone 5a Illinois.

  • roseseek
    12 years ago

    That's my take on it Strawberryhill. Petal size and color will often indicate what is desired. Roses descended from under story species tend to have smaller petals of lighter color. The more "shade tolerant" roses fit that mould very well. Hybrid Musks (actually hybrid multifloras) are mostly smaller petaled, lighter petaled and lighter colored roses. Makes sense. Dark colors won't reflect a whole lot of light in reduced illumination, so they won't attract many pollinators. That's the whole function of the flower, ovulation. Those which aren't successful in reproduction don't last in Nature. So far, she doesn't seem to waste good genes on inappropriate applications.

    She requires things in balance. Her see-saw is always level at its greatest success. Smaller, thinner, lighter colored petals benefit from reduced hours of hotter, brighter sun. They tend to require less than larger, heavier, darker colored ones to open properly. That has to be balanced between the sufficient threshold to open and not enough to burn and destroy them. Larger petals also tend to collect and hold more moisture which must be evaporated out of them to permit proper opening. That requires heat, often from direct sun. Increase the petal count with those larger types and the required heating increases to provide the energy and drying required for opening. Smaller ones hold less moisture, requiring less direct sun heat to dry them, hence less balling.

    Lighter colors often hold their proper pigments better in less direct, hot sun. Determining what the actual sun hours needed in your garden isn't something anyone else can really answer. Micro climates vary so tremendously in just a few feet, those thresholds can easily vary within your garden, making distances an even greater obstacle in giving actual figures. Kim

  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
    12 years ago

    Strawberryhill,
    All my Austin's but one seem to require lots of sun. The exception is Brother Cadfael which has done well in both part shade and full sun environments in two different locations. Bro has been a monster workhorse for me, and one of my most dependable roses. On the other hand, I have had several Eglantines (sp?) in those same two locations, and they like lots of sun, even though their pale pink blooms crisp and fade terribly in the hot sun. Diane

  • strawchicago z5
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thank you, Kim and Diane - you gave me the answers I was searching for. I'm excited about Brother Cadfael for next year. Thanks for the info. on Eglantyne - I'm glad that I kept her in more sun.

    It's always good to hear the type of roses that do well for people along with the climate and the type of soil (alkaline clay or acidic). I heard that Ambridge rose is more prone to chlorosis in alkaline clay. Any others? Thanks.

  • michaelg
    12 years ago

    My William Shakespeare 2000 is prone to iron deficiency and magnesium deficiency in a soil that is near neutral. It is grafted, but I suspect it is on multiflora. I got it as a potted rose from S&W and so have never seen its roots.

  • flaurabunda
    12 years ago

    I do my planting all in the spring just as Karl said. The only thing that ever prevents me from getting new roses planted is too much rain.

    If you've ever tried to dig a hole in clay when it's been overly wet, you know what I mean. May as well use a vacuum and get a safety harness, because it's like quicksand. That's the benefit of working in the snow, as Karl said, because the ground is a bit more solid and less prone to that slushy, gross, clay-ridden mess.