To lower the pH, get garden sulfur or wettable sulfur or micronized sulfur. Apply 1/2 cup (measured) per square yard under the mulch.

If you have yellowisn leaves with green veins on the new growth, that is iron deficiency caused by the high pH. However, iron deficiency doesn't cause the leaves to drop. Leaves drop because of disease, overwatering, or some kind of burn such as fertilizer burn.

If they get sun most of the afternoon, that's enough. There is less sun available this time of year.

Nitrogen is transient in the soil and needs to be added every year. Potassium and phosphate are persistent in the soil and have built up from past fertilizing. You won't need to add any of those for years. Choose a high-nitrogen fertilizer when you fertilize next year.

If you post a sharp picture of a yellowing leaf and say where on the plant it came from (top or bottom), we can diagnose. Give as much information about the history of the yellowing / dropping as you can.

thank you. if you add sulfur i suppose you have to keep getting soil tested.

i posted the photos on another link. i am trying to find it. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0717442331719.html

but it had been hashed through a lot. ag dept. said i need zinc and iron and added that two weeks ago.

looks like they don't get sun until 3 p.m. this time of year.

I've noticed in my garden that the roses that get morning sun and afternoon shade do best in my hot and dry garden. The ones that have morning shade and afternoon sun are really struggling, and I've had to replace several of them with tougher plants (vitex and lavender starflower) after several years of struggling. I have a feeling location may also be a large part of your problem in addition to any issues your soil may have.

Ingrid

Thanks for the link, which shows iron deficiency caused by waterlogging and high pH.

The sulfur will lower the pH, but very slowly. You don't need to be checking it frequently. IF next spring the new leaves are still coming in pale with green veins, THEN you can apply another 1/2 cup of sulfur. Don't go beyond that.

One thing you need to guard against is the impulse to keep putting more stuff on the roses. If roses are stressed (roots rotted from water logging, for example), adding more stuff may just make them worse.

I have a suggestion for fertilizing. Get Miracid aka Miracle Gro for Acid Loving Plants. Give each plant 1 measured level TB in one gallon of water once a month and use nothing else. If you haven't fertilized for a month you can start it now. This meets your needs because
--it is high in nitrogen, lower in P and K (30-10-10)
--it contains available iron and zinc
--it is precise and complete, so you don't need to be thinking about putting more stuff on, except a mulch of organic material.

Hopefully your plants will survive the winter and do better next year. Yay!

i am beginning to think that they do need more sun. thought of moving them in october when it is cooler to a fields where the sun reigns.

Jess -- remember that it takes time for roses to react to things you do. Change too many things in quick succession, and you won't know what works. Also -- don't panic over that 7.2. I could pray for that! We sit at around 8.3.

Give time and Ma Nature a chance to work. :-)

Jeri

thanks jeri. i pruned it today since it barely had any leaves on it. got some sulphur and more iron. will use it today or tomorrow.

Jessaka...

You said "looks like they don't get sun until 3 p.m. this time of year."

You are a zone colder than I am in the mountains of northern California. My roses are also getting more shade this time of year. The growing season is winding down .... the temperatures are cooler, the days are shorter ... so I don't think this is the time of year to determine whether or not they are getting enough sun ... the six hours per day rule of thumb.

At this time of year, the foliage on some of my roses really does start to look pretty lousy due to the much cooler night temps. I don't know if that is true where you garden.

The weather in my area is really been weird this year and I have had more disease than I have ever experienced in the past. I just think it was a bad rose year up here this year. It seems like every year the weather is different.

MichaelG ... thanks for the info about the P and K. I'll remember that going forward with this garden.

Smiles,
Lyn

if i remember right lyn, they were getting 6 hours but will wait until spring or summer to know for sure.

my roses were looking lousy from spring on. never got better. too much rain this year really flooded them.

thanks.

Working with the soil and using the suggestions of others who have posted in this thread is fine, as far as I know. It's just the wrong time of year to determine if they are getting enough light.

Smiles,
Lyn

If you are having soil problems, try putting in a raised bed with good soil. Your ph needs to be 6.3-6.5. IF you can't get it there you will have discolored leaves. There are ph charts you can see that shows you what nutrients get locked up at what ph level.