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Should I order grafted or own root?

Posted by andreark 9b (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 30, 13 at 17:35

I live in the Delta area of the SFO East Bay. Very warm dry summers from late June to mid Sept (mostly high 80s and mid 90s, but maybe 6 or 7 days around 100) with 2 to 3 inches of rain monthly from Nov through Mar. Winters rarely get below 34 or 35.

I am ordering some bare root roses. I have only had grafted container roses from Regan's nursery.(only 21 total so far)

But now I have a little more room for a couple of new roses and I don't know if I should get grafted again or try own root.

Whatcha think?

andrea


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Which you should choose could easily depend upon what roses you are considering, Andrea. Some are rabid in either direction and will advise to buy only one or the other. I am more of a moderate in this respect. If the rose you want is known not to tolerate western soils and waters well, buy it grafted on an appropriate stock. If it suckers like bamboo and you don't want it all over your garden, again, buy it grafted. If it is a weaker type which greatly benefits from artificial roots, grafted is the only way to go. If it is known to take a long time to develop into a decent garden plant (think many Teas and Tea-Noisettes), a grafted plant may well make your experience with it much more pleasant.

If it is known to perform well own root in many California gardens, own root should be just fine. What roses are you considering? Perhaps there are those who garden in your soil, water and climate types with sufficient experience with them to offer valid opinions? Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Thanks a bunch Kim. If I tell you what I want, will you yell at me?

I want a couple more English types. I was thinking about OGRs. But the beautiful ones that I wanted, the ones that gracefully drape over fences and trellises, are too big for my yard. I have only small spaces where one bush can grow to be only 3 or 4 ft wide and maybe 5 or 6 feet tall. I can prune the English types to stay that size, but the beauty (I think) of the OGRs is in their long gracefully arching canes. Maybe my next home will have enough room.

Anyway, what about Edmonds or Austins?

andrea


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

I'm not yelling at you or anyone else, Andrea! Just because I might not like something, or it might not do well here, doesn't mean it isn't "likable" or won't do well elsewhere. Everyone is entitled to their own "bad taste", including me.

I honestly haven't bought anything from Edmund's since Jung Seed bought them. I don't know whether they actually produce any roses or buy them like J&P does. I suspect Austin has many contract grown for them. I haven't bought anything directly from Austin in many years. I read the reports here and listen more to a local friend who has grown Austin roses here in Southern California for over thirty years. She's bought them from any and every source there has been and is. Her experience with bare roots bought from Austin in Texas for the past three years has been quite spotty. Bad enough that at this point, she has no intentions of purchasing from them again. Her issue has been an increasing number of roses which never break dormancy. I've known her long enough and have witnessed her gardening skills sufficiently to know if she's having problems with a source, it isn't her fault. I'm sure others will chime in with conflicting opinions, which is fine.

What roses are you considering? Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Kim, I am so sorry I was insensitive.

I was considering Munstead Wood, Molineaux, and Crown Princess Margareta.

But maybe bare root isn't such a good idea. Should I just wait until they are available at the nursery.?

Hugs from me and my pups (one beautiful and perfect princess Airedale, and one rescue mutt that is trying to destroy my home.) He's adorable, just a monster!

andrea


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

You weren't insensitive, Andrea. I'm sorry my failed attempt at being humorous sounded as if you might have been. Nope, we're just fine! I've not grown the first two you mention. I had Crown Princess Margareta the year it was introduced in Britain. Someone I met years ago, brought it in before it was introduced here and shared a rooted cutting of it. The two I added that year to the garden were Brother Cadfeal and CPM. I found both to be rather rangy growers, like Dr. Huey plants and both flowered as "freely" in Newhall as Huey. Which is to say, virtually not at all. I finally shredded both of them for mulch. No joke.

But, there are many here who adore both Munstead Wood and Molineaux, so they're obviously good roses somewhere.

How do the prices for the bare roots from the two sources compare to what you pay at your local nursery? There are a few benefits to buying bud and bloom, canned plants. You know whether they are mis named or not if they're in flower. You know they have broken dormancy and you have more immediate gratification in your garden. If the prices are significantly greater, it may make it worth your while to take your chances with the dormant plants. Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

The price for bare root is significantly less than container. $18 for Bare root and about $39 for container.. I was just hoping to get it sooner. But taking what you said into consideration, maybe I will just wait.

me


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Andrea -- How long have you been gardening with roses? To tell you the truth, this rose gardening business is a trial and error proposition. Many, many of us have squandered a boatload of money trying first one thing and then another. If you want an out-of-the-gate guarantee on what will work in your environment, try establishing contact with rose society members in your area. Even among those folks, you're likely to find that opinions vary -- and sometimes vary radically. To put it bluntly (but honestly), growing roses is often a crapshoot. Experiment. See what works best for Andrea in Andrea's garden.


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

PS: Among the dwindling number of suppliers these days, Edmunds', IMO, is as good any.


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Andrea

Are you thinking bareroot or potted or own root? Potted roses might be the left over bareroots from the January-ish sales. Does not mean they are on their own root. (just what I noticed at a local nursery)

If you have some patience, I am enjoying a couple of roses here in Santa Barbara. One is Archduke Charles. It is still small and has small blooms to match, but I love how one day the center is a pale pink and the next it is all pink. The other is Lady Ann Kidwell, she is going nuts and is very happy, both were bought as bands from Burlington as a Christmas Present to me. They are now both in the garden. I think I enjoy Lady Ann Kidwells new growth as much as her unique ribbon star shape. I only mention those two because they are different flower shapes than your average HT, they like CA and have dealt with their probably less than ideal location in our lower veggie/orchard area with out any issue.


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

I suspect you will only find the "current" Austins as grafted plants. Mostly it is the older Austins that are available bareroot. I would pass on Crown Princess Marg also -- have 3, and they are basically once bloomers for me, even well cared for. On the other hand Munstead Wood and Molineux are very good, reliable roses. I also like Symphony, which is a bit smaller than Molineaux, which sounds like it will out grow the dimensions you say you want. For a peachy one, I'd go with Ambridge Rose, one of my fav's.


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Kim,
I have a 'sort of ' friend at Regans nursery. She is a 'Rosarian'. I will ask her about the success of Austin bare roots. You know, thinking about it, if I start with a bare root, it will take months before I see anything. If I wait a few months, I will know what I'm getting. I am NOT patient. (you may have noticed this before) I think I would be better off waiting for the container roses to become available.

Good idea? or not.

me


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

If you don't mind looking at the empty spaces until canned plants are available; if they will have the roses you want as canned plants so you don't HAVE to order them bare root; and if the prices of the canned plants fit well with your budget, go canned. If any of these points are issues with you, order the bare roots. Either way is going to require patience...whether it's watching plants which seem to not be doing anything, or empty spaces, waiting for fillers to become available. Which do you think you can tolerate better? Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Thanks again Kim. I think I'll get bare root. New experiences are good, , , , maybe.

Kippy, had that happen once already. As I said to Kim, I'll go bare root this time.

Thanks all,

andrea


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Andrea, learning to grow bare roots is like learning to raise roses from seed...both teach patience. You can learn it and I think you'll find it an enjoyable experience, honest! Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

I love bare root roses and they grow fast here, catching up with container plants (I love those, too), quite quickly. Here is Augusta Luise, a bare root planted in March. This pic was taken in June.
I did want to mention that the Austin "Golden Celebration" has lovely arching canes, but still is quite upright. I think it might have the look you want. Mine is grafted on Huey. Diane


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Thanks Kim. And did you see Diane's beautiful blossom?

Thanks Diane,

andrea


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Yes ma'am, it's lovely! You're welcome! Kim


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

andrea, I've grown Austins that were potted own root (which I got from either Roses Unlimited or Chamblees) as well as Austins that were bare root (ordered usually from David Austin's nursery). Both work fine. I've never seen any major difference between them.

For me, the only real difference is whether I want to plant in late March/early April -- in which case I order bareroot-- or do I want to plant in mid-May -- in which case I order from Roses Unlimited or Chamblees.

Kate


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Thanks, Andrea. Kate's advice is good, and if you have a local nursery you like which has the rose you want, consider buying a potted rose from them, too. Diane


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Golden Celebration is one of the Austin roses I'm sure we'll always grow. Yes, lovely, upright, arching plants. And in our conditions, they are disease-free. (I think it can be troubled by blackspot, where that is a problem.)

The fragrance is wonderful, and the vase life is excellent, and the plants are an asset in the landscape.

For us, GC is bigger and more vigorous, and quicker to mature, on its own roots.

We have one from Hortico, on multiflora. It is occasionally touched by chlorosis, but that is transitory. 4 are on Huey. One is own-root.

Jeri


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RE: Should I order grafted or own root?

Oh thanks so much Kim, Kate, Diane, and last but not least, Jeri.

Wish me luck. I am just in the planning stage for next January. I want to know which will do well in my limited spaces with sun and/or partial shade.

Lots to think about,

andrea


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