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scottfam125

Can you amend an area so the soil won't be so dry?

I know it sounds crazy but I'm down to two areas left where I can plant more roses and they are both super dry areas. I plan on digging them up with roto-tiller and was hoping I could amend it with something to keep it from drying out so fast. Someone please tell me how!! Thanks, Judy

Comments (18)

  • buford
    9 years ago

    What kind of soil is it? Clay or sandy? Adding organic material and mulching can hep keep soil moist.

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hey Buford! The other areas have some clay and I have no clue if it's sandy. When I dig it next week maybe I can tell better. Just from the few plants I've put there it's super dry and I'd like to get the plants off to a good start.

  • bart_2010
    9 years ago

    Lots of organic matter ans cheap, simple clay kitty litter...

  • roseseek
    9 years ago

    Also, are the areas super dry because of root invasion from large trees adjacent to the area? If there are no large root masses in those areas and they're dry simply because of exposure and lack of regular irrigation, amending as has been suggested and adding irrigation can help. If those areas are strongly infiltrated by large root masses from nearby trees, it could also be the area is damper than you think, but those roots are keeping it drier. Kim

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Bart and Kim! Really kitty litter? I can do that!! There are a few trees that are zapping all the moisture I'm sure. I probably will add some more irrigation in that area just to be safe. Would love to take a couple more trees down but hubby loves his trees and he's already parted with lots of them to give me more sun for my roses. Thanks, Judy.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    9 years ago

    Have you heard of Square Foot Gardening? A component of it is Mel's Mix for filling the beds. It's equal parts by volume of peat moss, vermiculite, and compost. I discovered it after I made my own mix for my barrel containers, which was heavier on the peat moss. Next time I fill barrels I'll stick to this general percentage, with some modifications -- incorporating some mulch into the peat moss 1/3, some perlite into the vermiculite 1/3, and using Bovung and coffee grounds for the compost 1/3. I think the basic idea of 1/3 nutrient-poor organic filler, 1/3 nutrient-poor inorganic fuller, and 1/3 nutrient-rich organic filler is the key. Of course, you can still add organic fertilizers, and any acid/lime to balance your native soil if necessary, but this is the soil base.

    I bring this up because from what I've read from those who have used this mix, it is great at water retention but is still free-draining -- unlike peat moss, it doesn't take long to re-wet after being dry, and it also is inorganic, so it won't decompose away. You can get big bags of it at Home Depot. If you can dig out the area you wish to plant, then mix the native soil about 50-50 with your version of Mel's Mix, and finish with a few inches of mulch, I think you'll be good to go.


    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks so much Christopher! That sounds like a good plan. I will def try to do that. Thank you so much for explaining it all. Hope to start in a week or two. Thanks, Judy.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    9 years ago

    Tree roots will always win out. Roses can't compete with them.

  • roseseek
    9 years ago

    Amen! The only way to win out over the tree roots are pots or tubs set on stones so the soil can NEVER make the bridge for roots to grow up into the pots. Been there far too many times to count, from paper mulberry trees (the WORST piece of garbage tree every planted), white birch, black walnut, you name it. If the issue is mainly tree roots, forget about trying to grow anything like roses and keep them watered. I have a client now who has large birches and a huge carrot wood along her patio and she so wants color around where they sit and enjoy the yard. The only way to do it is pots which can never come in contact with the ground. That works. Kim

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks y'all. One area doesn't seem to be dry from trees. The trees are about 20-30 ft away. Going to dig it up and see where I stand. Thanks again!!

  • paparoseman
    9 years ago

    Hi Pretty petals, I have used Clumping Cat Litter IN the holes when I have planted roses in sandy soil. It works AWESOMELY and is fairly inexpensive since you do NOT have to add an entire bag to the hole. First dig a GOOD sized hole like WE are supposed to. Then as you add your organic amendments carefully add about a half gallon of CLUMPING cat litter to the hole. Clumping is better because it is in VERY small grains and so will not make it hard for the roots to go through/around it. After I had filled the bottom of the hole I MIXED everything so the clay would not all be in one area. There is NO limit on how much to add to the hole. Around here the rain is fairly regular but during a three month span from Mid June to September rain is hard to come by.

    One rose that I did dig out two years after planting it with the clay had CLUMPS of roots where the clay had made itself into wetter than the area around it spots.

  • fireballsocal
    9 years ago

    Soil moist water absorbing polymer?

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks paparoseman! Def going to use some cat litter with the other stuff. Sounds like it would def work.

    Fireball the water absorbing polymer sounds good too. Def worth looking into.

    Thanks everyone!!

  • roseseek
    9 years ago

    I used the polymer to plant the Newhall garden in 1989. From personal experience, do not mix up a largish batch of it without wearing a face mask. The dust will rehydrate inside your body and won't come out. I figured if I hydrated it with liquid fertilizer, it would provide some feeding for some time. Then, I got the "bright idea" of hydrating it with fish emulsion. Stupidly, I admit it, I hydrated a forty-four gallon Rubbermaid Roughneck trash can full of polymer/fish emulsion. Except, how much can you actually USE in one day? Picture it...summer, mid California desert, high nineties to low triple digits, no shelter, only a large trash can with a lid in that heat.... The next day off when I hit the garden, there MUST have been something dead! It was the trash can. I dug an enormous hole to fit the whole, slimy, "dead" mess. It took quite a bit to cover it and I figured something was sure to dig it up, but nothing did. Several years later, we had a strong El Nino. The ground broke open and black 'slime' oozed from the cracks. I figured it had to be something pretty terrible as this was "virgin" ground where no homes had ever stood and no crops ever planted. Polymer...

    It was mixed, wet, into the soil in 1989. It prevented all gopher activity in the areas in which it was used all the way though 2007 when the garden had to be dismantled. Digging up well established plants, I found the polymer still hydrated with roots grown through it. Fortunately, there was NO evidence of the "dead" fish emulsion.

    A friend told me he successfully used the polymer against the gophers. His theory was they would eat the polymer along with the roots and it would absorb the fluids in their intestines. You can extrapolate what probably happened internally. All I can swear by is, gophers were frequent issues in all the beds of that garden EXCEPT those planted with the soil polymer. I would use it again, IF I could buy it wholesale as I could in 1989. Then, I was able to buy a whole pound of the stuff for $15. A pound goes a LONG way! Kim

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Kim you crack me up!! I can just imagine the stinky smell. I use fish emulsion and good gravy it stinks the first day I couldn't imagine days later. Thank you for the warning about the polymer. It sounds like the polymer will help. Are there directions on the package? I have about 15 roses I'm going to plant in this area, mostly English. This area is close to my house and it will be quite easy to water so I may be worrying for nothing but the soil seems so much drier than the areas around it. Thanks again, Judy.

  • roseseek
    9 years ago

    Hi Judy, you're welcome! Yes ma'am, there should be instructions on the package. There always have been when I've bought it later for hanging baskets for clients. The one down side IF there are tree roots is they will also find the polymer and make great use of it.

    Some years later (1996), I still had quite a bit of the stuff unused in a bag in my living room when there was a fire. Of course all that water from the fire department with all the smoke and soot from the fire (autos in the garages, bbq's with propane tanks, etc. made it a HOT fire). Once they came into the building to mop up, they found this black, slimy "stuff" oozing from what had been my living room. Hazmat was called to insure it really WAS what I told them to expect it to be. The stuff can be nasty and you honestly don't want to mess with it without adequate ventilation. It's best outside and if you spill it, SWEEP it up. Hosing it off makes a slimy mess. No kidding. Things I never thought of until further "exploits" with it.

    If you can amend and irrigate the area sufficiently without it, why spend the money? If you can't and think you need it, just handle it as if it could hurt you and you'll be fine. Good luck! Kim

  • roseblush1
    9 years ago

    Judy ...

    I think it is wonderful that people are offering possible solutions to your dry beds, but when I saw that you are planning to plant 15 roses in that area, my first thought was, "That's a lot of hard labor and it might not work."

    I think you need to find out why the soil in that area is dry. Is it draining too fast ? or is it the composition of the soil ... ie the mineral components in the soil ? are their rocks deep down or an impenetrable layer of soil that directs water placed on the surface of the soil directing the water away from that area so that it doesn't hold moisture ? In other words, what's going on that makes that part of your property dryer than other parts of your garden. Know the "why" of something helps more to find a good solution for the long term.

    No matter what you decide to do, I think it would be wise to experiment with fewer than 15 roses to find out what is going to work.

    Gardening with roses in soil that is less than ideal can work, but a lot more work is required to keep them happy and thriving. I've done it and I won't stop as I now understand my soil/non-soil well enough to know what I need to do to compensate for it being less than ideal.

    You might want to post this question to the Soil Forum.

    Lyn

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Lyn!! We had a bunch of trees removed about 6-7 years ago when my rose addiction started so I'm thinking that's why this area is so dry. This areas trees were removed prob 3 yrs ago and I planted lime lights like a bonehead that just kept zapping the water I'm sure but I've taken them out bc they were going to get way to big for the area and drooped every time it rained so out they came. If they start struggling I will just put them elsewhere. I know it's a lot of work but hope it works out. Thanks a bunch, Judy