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stlgal_gw

Which Austin English roses do I NEED to add next season?

stlgal
12 years ago

I have room for 5 new Austins (1-2 climbers and 3-4 shrub sized) this upcoming spring and I'm debating which ones I really need to add. I'm also open to reblooming old roses, or other English style roses (e.g. Meilland roses) that will work in my zone.

Here are some I'm considering: Ambridge Rose, Comte de Champagne, Eglantyne, Janet, Lady of Shalott, Portmeirion, St. Swithun, The Endeavour, Comte de Chambord. Let me know if you have any opinions about them.

Below is the list of Austins I grow or have grown, grouped by my opinion of them.

All time favorites:

• Abraham Darby�"beautiful deep apricot/pink, fruity fragrance, hardy, lasts well on the shrub or in a vase

• Jude the Obscure�"yellow/cream blend, amazing fragrance is a fruit/myrrh blend, and is very strong unusual and lovely, also holds up well as a cut flower

• William Shakespeare 2000�"best Austin red perhaps, old rose fragrance

• Golden Celebration�"arching bush, fruity strong scent

• Evelyn�"creamy peach, best fragrance, is a blend of old rose and fruit

• Lady Emma Hamilton�"strong lovely citrus scent, orange blend

• Gertrude Jekyll�"deep pink, old rose fragrance, rebloom is a bit slow but I still love the color form and fragrance

Also very good:

• Munstead Wood-pure old rose fragrance, deep red beautiful blooms, fairly prolific, nicely shaped bush

• Strawberry Hill�"pink fragrant blooms (sweet myrrh), waxy tough foliage and great rebloom

• Graham Thomas�"yellow, tea scent, very reliable rebloom, strong, reliable grower that routinely reaches 8+ feet

• Christopher Marlowe�"continuously blooming short arching bush with interesting fragrance (a bit of crispness to it, not a typical rose scent but very pleasant), and a unique color (deep pink/orange blend)

• Young Lycidas�"magenta pink, very prolific and reliable, fragrant, late in the season it became somewhat defoliated but this may be due to its location in the bed.

• Teasing Georgia�"waxy, disease resistant foliage, very large and prolific fragrant (sweet myrrh) apricot blooms, sort of a monster taking over the bed and heading for the 2nd story windows.

• Tea Clipper-apricot, waxy, sweet blooms, strong myrrh scent.

• Jubilee Celebration-color is beautiful pink/yellow blend, strong somewhat fruity scent, good rebloom (almost never out of bloom), suspect this may become a favorite

• Sharifa Asma-beautiful shell pink/cream blend, intense fragrance in the myrrh+fruit range, so far reblooming well, again think this may be a keeper

• Port Sunlight-apricot blending to cream edges, very pretty, rapid rebloom I think, tea scented, depending on how it grows I think this may move up

Pretty good, but at least one complaint:

• A Shropshire Lad�"pretty color (peak/yellow/pink blend), odd fragrance, very slow to rebloom almost limited to an early and a late bloom

• Falstaff�"not a strong fragrance, reliable pretty red blooms though

• Tamora�"short apricot, myrrh fragrance strong, not very robust growth

• Brother Cadfael�"med pink, strong pure rose fragrance, large blooms, upright habit with thornless canes, but blooms brown at the edges in wet weather, sometimes fail to open, large rose that grew to reach our 2nd floor window

• Pat Austin�"beautiful color (burnt orange) but blooms are very short-lived; among the least durable of the Austins I’ve tried-and I’m not a huge fan of the tea scent. Being out-competed by its larger neighbors at the moment (Georgia, Bro Cadfael)

• Pegasus�"arching growth and tea-scented apricot blooms that form in clusters. Still like the color but growth in the later season isn’t impressive and think it’s been superceded by newer varieties.

• Harlow Carr-flat pink flowers, sometimes fragrance wanes (in heat of summer), other times almost like cotton candy, very sugary; kids like how this one smells.

• James Galway-pink climber, not strongly scented unless weather is just right, slow to rebloom

• Crown Princess Margareta-brown edges on many blooms in wet weather, otherwise nice scent (fruity) when they do appear

• Mary Rose-med pink, apple scent, a pretty good grower but flowers not very special

• Noble Anthony-deep pink flowers with some scent

• The Countryman-deep pink [nothing wrong with these two but not very special either]

• The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild-a non-descript pink, so far hasn’t done much for me

• Lady of Megginch-med fragrance, which is not all that obvious most of the time, deep pink pretty blooms, appears to be getting tall in 1st year

• Heritage�"light pink, strongly scented but haven’t had many flowers this first year

Not likely to make it to the favorites list, although they do have their charms:

• The Mayflower-no scent, flowers fail to open in wet weather, weak stems, blackspot prone

• Grace-underperforms so far, flowers are a nice apricot/pink but flatten and give up rapidly in hot weather, short plant that doesn’t grow or bloom robustly

• Princess Alexandria of Kent-light warm pink, not very robust growth, flowers do not last well in the heat

• Molineux-short yellow, some scent but not strong most of the time, plant doesn’t compete well vs everything else I’m growing and isn’t worth making a special place

• Mary Webb-cream/yellow, little scent

• Fair Bianca�"white, blackspot prone and not a strong grower

Used to grow:

• LD Braithwaite-no fragrance, fairly boring red w/o the usual Austin charm

• Charles Austin-turned into a monster and couldn’t convince it to rebloom reliably even when I self-pegged it

• Perdita-cream blend

• The Alnwick Rose-light pink, not very robust, not much fragrance (recent SP and don’t think I’d replant)

• Huntington Rose-prolific bloomer but not strongly scented, might prefer something else

• Carding Mill- sort of an odd fragrance and flowers open strangely&asymmetrically

Comments (84)

  • view1ny NY 6-7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bought several Austins this year, and am not liking what I see with Port Sunlight & Princess Alexandra.

    stigal, you've listed Port Sunlight in the 'very good' section. I'm a bit worried about mine - very thin canes/stems, almost no rebloom, only about 1 foot high. It's my poorest performer. Mine is in a pot.

    The same for the Princess Alexandra & Lady of Megginch growing in the soil - spindly stems that can't support the flowers, not much bloom. However, my PA growing in a pot now has 9 buds about to open.

    Brother Cadfael (in a pot) is doing beautifully. Medium pink, large blooms that look like peonies. It's about 6' high. James Galway & Teasing Georgia are both in the soil and are doing fine, also about 6' high.

    It's only the first year, but was wondering if Port Sunlight will make it.

  • veilchen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tradescant has not been as vigorous for me. In my garden it hasn't exceeded 4-5 feet. Have had it for about six years.

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not particularly surprised to hear that Tradescant grows larger in the U.S. A number of Austins have exhibited that trait since Americans first started buying Austins. I can remember years ago cries of outrage that Graham Thomas grew to a "monster" size and posters here complained about the "jolly green giant" syndrome many Austins manifested in the U.S. The simple fact is that we get more heat and sunlight than the British do, so a number of Austins grow differently here than they do in England. The whole moral of the story is to make sure when you view the online David Austin website that you are viewing the version intended for whatever country you are from--so that you get accurate info. for your country. That is what those flags are for on the opening page.

    If you read Austin's catalog carefully, you will notice that he himself notes in several places that certain plants will likely grow bigger in the U.S.

    So far here in the midwest I have not seen any "jolly green giant" traits on my Austins. I think it is so excessively hot here in the summertime that the opposite effect often takes place--it inhibits any excessive growth. Just a theory of my own--but might explain why my Austins usually grow no bigger than is listed on Austin's British website.

    Kate

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not sure how Port Sunlight will do over the long haul, as this is her first year here. She's bloomed steadily, slower on rebloom than others I have but have had but a fair number of flowers and healthy, disease-free foliage. I like the color and scent. Long term, we'll have to see. I've had little luck with the Princess Alexandra I have. In her second year, she's still a pouty little thing only 1.5 feet tall and the flowers don't last well, especially if it is hot. I do like the color, so she keeps her spot for the time being. Lady of Megginch is already about 3 feet her first year so here she appears to be getting taller than I'd anticipated. She's pretty but so far the scent is not up to my usual standards. If you can make a soil spot for Port Sunlight, she may perform better.

    It is funny how there is this disconnect with Austin descriptions sometimes. It is partly but not entirely trackable to the UK/American difference. I've seen similar disconnect between their catalog, my "English roses" book by DA and various things in the online catalogs. One can only take what's written so far anyway, because given the microclimate/sun/soil etc you have, your mileage may vary.

    I love the 'monster' tendencies of Graham Thomas. Teasing Georgia is the worst one I've hit so far, although Bro Cadfael also gets quite large here. He's thornless so maybe I don't mind so much. Both of these make flowers visible through the second story windows and they'd probably reach the roof if I let them. I took the Felcos to Georgia yesterday, fairly gently, and cut some of the canes back to 5-6 feet that were preventing the others in the bed from getting sunlight. Tied her back so she has to stay in a smaller space. Maybe rather than trying to find someone who can keep up with her vigor I will try to contain her a bit better. They do mention the need for summer pruning for some of the larger ones in American gardens, to maintain size and encourage rebloom. I generally try not to do that until a rose has been in my garden for several years, but Georgia is a monster in her 2nd year so I think it was warranted. There isn't really the space for another monster back there.

    They say Tradescant has a strong Old rose scent, so as long as that is accurate I think I'd like to have another red somewhere in my bed. Will and Munstead are my favorites to date.

    I remain curious about the Heirloom OGR-looking roses, such pretty colors. Never room for all I'd like to try anyway...

  • dirtdiver
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not a huge rose person, but I grow a few, and the one I've grown best is a romantica--Colette. It's kind of a climber, and it's been tougher than any of my Austins here in/near Chicago. I haven't yet recorded a winter temp below -10, though. But either way, I don't baby, protect or spray it, and it's just getting better and better (as is the Betty Corning clematis sharing its canes). I believe it's rated to zone 5. This year it bloomed heavily in spring and then sporadically the rest of the season.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have been tempted by that one, as someone grows it as an average sized shrub that always has a bloom or two in the neighborhood where I run.

    I've yet to lose an Austin to cold here, Rose Rosette is what gets mine, so I assume it thrives here w/o protection. I couldn't figure out how great the fragrance was when I went by though, because there was often only a bloom or two and not at peak. So I wonder if many of the Austins also outbloom it. Very pretty flowers though.

  • caldonbeck
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Port sunlight is a very dainty rose, as are many of his English Musks, they tend to build up over time - mine was the same but is is great now. Tends to have flushes rather than constant blooms. Princess Alexandra of Kent is very low over here, maybe two feet tall which is a good thing in my book - the blooms last ages and it is by no means weedy, so don't know what is going on there!!

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is good to hear of both of those. Port Sunlight is in its first year and has been a bit slower on rebloom than its neighbors (Jubilee Celebration and Sharifa Asma--also first year plants) but I have had a number of rounds and it is still small--I usually figure that as long as I get repeated blooms in the early days from a rose it is likely to improve with time.

    Maybe then it is just PA's tendency to stay very short, although if I'd known she was going to be quite this short I'd have put her somewhere else. I planted her next to Chris Marlowe (who is only supposed to reach 2 feet himself) and Munstead Wood and she is still only about a 18 inches tall, while each of these has reached 3+ feet. She has a straight southern exposure (as do they) and they throw a bit of shade on her but not too much.

    PA currently has one of the sunniest spots available in my yard, so it is hard to believe she'd be more vigorous elsewhere and many of the Austins get quite a bit bigger here than their UK descriptions. Her blooms are an interesting warm pink that I like a lot but maybe they last better in the UK than in our heat--here when it was in the 90s F in summer they turned into these things that looked like flattened wads of kleenex within a day or two, often before I got to enjoy them or check the fragrance. They are holding up better now but not abundant given her small stature.

    Maybe I should just be patient with her and keep her neighbors from crowding her, see if she improves with time or is just one of those Austins that prefers the climate of the UK to the wild weather swings of my midwest backyard.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thought I'd post here also: I'm interested in whether anyone here grows Polka.

    Currently Tradescant and Polka are the finalists for my spot between pink Bro Cadfael and light yellow/apricot Teasing Georgia. I wanted a darker color that wouldn't fade to match either of these in the heat, either an orange/salmon/apricot shade or a red/mauve. Will have to be reasonably big (8feet+ with a southern exposure here) and preferably a good rebloomer with fragrance. I want it all, right?

  • steelrose
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On the recommendation of someone here, I put in a Polka a few years ago. It's in a tough spot and took a little while to get up to speed (own root) but now it's become a big, healthy beauty. Yes, to the 8feet, yes to the good rebloom, yes to the fragrance.

    Here, in my yard/zone, it's a keeper!

    Colleen

  • caldonbeck
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is Tradescant a big rose over there, it's a very small 2 foot thing here, it would be dwarfed by Cadfael and TG here. For me princess alex... is smaller than Munstead wood but puts on more of a show 2 or 3 times in a year, it's not one that always has flowers on.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's interesting--your description matches the UK-based online catalog, which said 2.5ft. The American David Austin website lists Tradescant as 4x4 or 8 ft as a climber. Quite a range--I thought one or the other must be wrong, but I guess this one really is very responsive to the climate.

    Predfern and Veilchen in 5a-5b over here have tried it as a climber, although I don't think it gets to 8ft for them. I figured in my 6a-ish microclimate I might get some size. Sounds like it might be better for a spot where I don't need so much height!

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And many thanks Colleen for the info on Polka--that sounds like it has everything I need for this spot! Should get plenty of sun there, so hopefully it will be pretty vigorous even in our cooler zone!

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, by the way, to everyone who posted such great suggestions on this thread!

    Last night I was assembling a list with the features and sizes of all of the roses people suggested and thinking about where some of them can go for next year, considering where I can make additional spots for the 15 that are currently in the "must have next spring" category...if only I move those irises or the hydrangea, there will be room for more roses!

    You guys have been great enablers and it is wonderful to have so many new ones to think about and look forward to!

  • ken-n.ga.mts
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've been growing Septer d' Isle for a bunch of years. Seven yrs in SE FL and three yrs up here. BIG healthy bush with standard pink blooms but a very different scent. It's an instant eye catcher planted in front of our house. Most folks here in N GA have never seen anything this big with so many blooms. I have always liked it.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sounds very good, somewhat like Strawberry Hill or Tea Clipper. Many of the light pinks have an almost over powering myrrh scent, although I think Heritage is a little more 'old rose'. I had been considering both that one and Eglantyne as possibilities, although my list is so long now that even if I do some maneuvering of plants it is going to be hard to limit the order to a number that will fit.

  • amberroses
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My Heritage is new this year. In the heat of our Florida summer the blooms haven't had much fullness or color. I'm finally getting the nicer blooms in the fuller weather. The scent is very nice and I can actually smell it very well from the bud before the flower opens.

  • amberroses
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I mean "cooler" weather :0

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have that one on the east side of the house as a first year plant and it is still only a 1-2 feet tall and so has been a bit sparse of blooms this year. Those that were there were nice and had fragrance--I didn't want it to bleach out color wise in the full southern exposure (as it is so delicate). So that slowed growth down, but I hope it fills out in the next couple of years and I get more flowers.

  • canadian_rose
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Another thought on Brother Cadfael is that it's very winter hardy. I had it in the ground at my old house and it survived winters (I put bags of leaves around it) with about 1 foot of live green branches and grew to about 3 1/2 feet tall. It did ball in the rain. But, it was a great rose!!

    Carol

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I have a couple of BCs and they never show any signs of winter die-back here. Amazing that you can even grow them in 3a. They get huge here, 10+ feet and smell wonderful. I don't mind the balling much, as it is just during the first flush when the weather is still wet.

  • jumbojimmy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you tried growing St Cecilia? I read that the blooms last longer and they look gorgeous.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't, but at some point I do plan try more of these pretty pale pinks that Mr. Austin has. It does look beautiful and sounds like it has the strong myrrh fragrance that some of his other pinks/apricots like Strawberry Hill and Tea Clipper do.

  • jumbojimmy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I noticed you haven't include Evelyn on your list. This rose is a MUST have. The blooms are absolutely stunning. I'm hoping to give this rose another try - my 3rd try next year.

    Just an update on St Swithun. This rose is the first to get blackspot in my country. Perhaps its because I sprayed insecticide soap earlier this spring. Lovely blooms, but the scent is not strong enough - it's light myrhh. Trivoli (Susan) was right afterall - it's just another pink rose. The flowers last pretty well, and they remind me a lot like Eglantye and Sharifa Asma. I do remember Sharifa Asma has a much stronger smell. St Swithun looks like it wants to become a climber - which is what I want.

  • jumbojimmy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I forgot to add... Comtes de champagne gets really messy when the blooms ages. When the blooms first open, they look really cute. Later, they fade to a lighter/whitish colour and look blousy (is there such word as blousy?) and droopy. Since mine is healthy, I decided to keep this rose.

  • rosynut
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No rosarian can possibly live without "HERITAGE"

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Evelyn should be there, she has a position of honor in the garden. Other than Jude, that is one of my favorite scents, the color is great, she blooms pretty much non-stop, and lasts in the vase well too. I've been moving a few blooms indoors lately, as the cold weather makes it difficult to enjoy the fragrance outside.

    I haven't gotten Comtes de champagne because I'd heard the blooms blow quickly, although I like the look with the multiple colors. I was also worried that it might fade to unfortunate looking shades of beige quickly here unless I kept it out of full sun.

    Heritage is a first year plant here on the west side of the house. I had some blooms--nicely fragrant and pretty--but was hoping for more height than I have yet. Guess I will be patient...

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    people complained about the growth habit of St. Swithun and said that the fragrance of Eglantyne wasn't as good as some of the other pinks. Both looked pretty but I needed a more compelling reason to add yet another pale pink.

    Sharifa asma is worth growing for the fragrance alone--it is spectacular, complex like Jude's with overtones of old rose mixed with a little fruit and I'm not sure what else. Complex and delicious and so much better than Austin's typical myrrh-scented pale pinks, of which there appear to be many. I find that scent pleasant, but a bit cloying at times and not nearly as complex and delicious.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Got my Heirloom and Pickering orders made tonight (while watching the hometown Cards win the world series!)

    Aloha hawaii (Kordes)
    Louise Clements
    Lady of the Mist (heirloom)
    Frederic Mistral (heirloom)
    Rose des Rescht (pickering)(DA)
    Star of the Nile (heirloom)
    Wise Portia (pickering-sold out)(heirloom)

    Jacques Cartier/Marchesa Boccella (pickering)(DA)
    Lady Jane Grey (heirloom)
    Pretty Jessica (pickering)(Heirloom)

    I'd still like to get Liv Tyler/Comtesse de Provence and Lady of Shalott but could only find them available where I'd be getting a single plant and it would be $40 for one rose after shipping...

    Still a bunch of others on the wish list, but I'd have to do some serious garden reorganization...maybe next year!

    Yay--thanks to everyone for the help--can't wait for spring now!
    still a

  • sc_gardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "jolly green giant" syndrome many Austins manifested in the U.S. The simple fact is that we get more heat and sunlight than the British do"

    yes, if you get the austins own root, I have found that they do not become as monstrous. exception: the generous gardener. that thing is a monster - give it room! even in zone 5 but the smell of the flowers is like a peony. and very disease resistant.

    For the OP: I have been checking out "the Endeavor" online at the site:
    http://www.davidaustinroses.com/american/showrose.asp?showr=4342

    Although I have read comments online that it does best in warm climates. It looks very nice. anyone?

    Thanks for the list OP, it has been very helpful for those of us in zone 5. I keep saying I will buy something besides The english roses, but honestly they do perform the best for me.

    Even the rugosas, I have issues with because our alkaline soil, they get chlorotic and they mostly only bloom once.

  • Krista_5NY
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Eglantyne is a wonderful rose for a cold zone, the fragrance is out of this world, and it is quite hardy.

    The fragrance is a delicious rosey scent, one of the most beautiful scents of the Austins, IMHO.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On another thread I'd seen the Generous Gardener referred to as the Stingy Gardener, so I was wondering whether lack of rebloom was a trade-off for the giant size. I've had Austins that turn into octopi and put all of their effort into the growth, so if one gets a flower at all it is at the end of a 10-12 foot cane only. Sometimes that can be controlled by self-pegging, but if not it is a lot of plant to make room for for not enough blooms. Currently Teasing Georgia is doing this on me but it was such a steady performer all season and will get a major trim back in spring which should encourage a lot of branching.

    I thought the Endeavor looked good too--I might actually still make a place for that one and Lady of Shalott in my garden. I didn't want to pay shipping to Austin just for one rose and couldn't find anywhere else that carried both it and the Romantica Liv Tyler that I was also very interested in getting.

    I still am not sure whether Romanticas tend to be more or less cold and disease resistant than the Austins, or if it is a rose-by-rose specific thing. The people gardening in 5a (rather than my really 6a zone) seem to lose some Austins as well as some Romanticas. I may need to get a few more roses for spring--can make the room if I commit hydrangea-cide on my annoying "Endless Summer" (Endless Bummer of no blooms....) and relocate a small bed of irises that are poor annual bloomers at this point. I guess today is a nice day to work those bits of the bed into homes for new roses...

  • sc_gardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I can see how some would call the generous gardener (in spite of the name) stingy. I have not tried the austin trick of hard pruning durring summer though... it may be one of his varieties that needs this. I will try next year.
    I get a full flush in spring and then sporadic in late summer into fall. But I will put up with it because it is so carefree. And for me this is actually a bonus because the blooms through July, august and sept just get eaten by jbeetles anyway. So the austins habit of summerhibernating works for me.
    it has survived below zero temps with almost no cane dieback. this thing could be a climber in warmer temps. Definitely a good rose for certain situations.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a slightly more 'wild' spot that can accommodate a larger rose that might be a good spot for a carefree Austin--currently the orange blend climber Westerland is here and crawls up beautifully into a variegated white/green dwarf willow. Maybe I could give it a companion.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And Krista, I've been very tempted to add Eglantyne as well--glad to hear the fragrance is as good as they claim (they say it is old rose, which I love in roses like Will Shakespeare and Munstead Wood). How big does it get for you there and what is the growth habit like? Is rebloom good?

  • Krista_5NY
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The fragrance of Eglantyne is very sweet and fine, like rosewater.

    I have two Eglantynes, they are about 5 feet tall and 4 feet wide, quite bushy and twiggy. The rebloom is good.

    This pic shows Eglantyne as a young plant. The Eglantynes are much larger now.

    They produce many blooms over the course of the season, but the June flush is the heaviest.

    {{gwi:217749}}

    Bloom pics:

    {{gwi:231667}}

    {{gwi:217750}}

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very much looking forward to seeing that one in person--it claims to be shade tolerant (no mention of whether the flowers mind the heat I've found) so I had a location in mind that should get good northwest exposure afternoon sun but where it will not be baking in the sun all day. So I hope it performs as you say. Must have been a bummer seeing those beauties pulled out for hybrid teas.

    This afternoon was perfect hole digging weather, so I got a few more places prepared in the beds. I have room for at least a few more, depending on size and am considering some of the Romanticas that others have praised for their fragrance and beauty. I need to work through the rest of my wish list and figure out what will be this year and what will have to wait...

  • rootman
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope someone who is growing Jacques Cartier in some shade, will chime in with a report.

    The departed bushes in the public garden were growing in all day sun, from sunrise to sunset. By all day sun I mean like conditions a corn plant growing in the center of a 20 acre corn field on perfectly flat land has.

    My J.C. is growing in full sun, but not all day sun. It is in shade until 10:00 AM then full sun until 6:00 PM on June 21 (Summer Solstice). It has some shade during the day unlike the growing conditions experienced by those in the public garden, but is growing very satisfactorilly, none the less.

    The flowers of J.C. do not have the heavy, thick petals of the hybrid tea types, and can show some crisping at the edges, very little in mine, and more so in the public garden roses as I remember.

    I'm more concerned about the 'straight as soldiers' growth the public garden roses exhibited getting somewhat lax under less sun, but my J.C.'s growth habit is very upright is very much like the remembered ones just much younger.

    BTW, this is one bush that if you were a smaller person crouched down behind it you could be hidden from view, it has such thick growth.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sounds nice--I still do have some flexibility with placement. I have beds that face full southern exposure the entire day (which some roses love, but some sun-sensitive ones fry in...Princess Alexandra of Kent is going to move out of there in spring). Also beds with that same exposure but near a fence which provides a little shielding and then beds that get a bit less sun although still about half a day's worth. So it is best to put ones that will still perform okay in a shadier place in the third beds. Depending on how much digging/amendment I can get done, I'm looking to add another bunch of Romanticas too, if I can figure out which ones.

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have done some digging today and made room for 4 or 5 new ones, depending on whether the weather holds and I have time to create another spot where some irises are at present. Still have a waaaay too long wish list to narrow to 4-5, but some of the top contenders are Romanticas:

    Liv Tyler/Comtesse de Provence
    Bolero
    Yves Piaget
    Betty White/Andre le Notre
    Peter Mayle
    Auguste Renoir
    Rouge Royale

    Sonia Rykiel

    And more Austins, including:
    Endeavour
    Lady of Shalott.....

    Also, the spouse has a wish to remove several dwarf spruce located in a very sunny spot as they are showing their increasing displeasure with our now frequent hot dry summers (maybe they are more marginal here as global climate change continues). Sooooo, that sounds to me like room for a few more roses in the years to come :-)

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was going to mention Peter Mayle when you asked earlier about Romanticas, but for some reason I then thought you said earlier that you were not looking for hybrid teas.
    If you don't object to HTs, Peter is a gorgeous rose--big, fat, smelly blooms--somewhere between deep pink and hot pink. You can spot him all the way across the yard. Quite good on disease-resistance, tolerates some shade they say. I wouldn't know--mine grow in HOT afternoon sun. It grows somewhat upright/vertical--not very wide. My one question, however, would be hardiness. Helpmefind can be very conservative on hardy estimates, but it does say Zone 7. Check some other sources and see if others rate it to Zone 5. I grow several in Zone 6. If he can withstand your cold, Peter is a terrific rose.

    Kate

    Here is a link that might be useful: Peter Mayle at helpmefind

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Kate--I guess I've been very much on the fence about whether they'll tolerate the cold here, will just have to see I think. The flowers look so gorgeous I think I have to try anyway, so I was going to put in 4-5 and see. I'm essentially zone 6 in the backyard, so maybe I'll have success with them if you have. Do you winter protect?

    My neighbor did lose some HTs from year to year but he planted the bud union above ground and didn't winter protect. My Austins always seem significantly hardier and I was hoping these, although marketed as HTs, were more mixed lineage and would be hardier too.

    The beds are a bit elevated, which hurts cold-tolerance but helps keep things well-drained. But I can bury the bud unions and throw on some bark mulch or leaves in the fall, which may help. Okay, Peter is officially on the list, and I think I MUST have Liv and Yves Piaget--the flowers look too wonderful to pass up. Every weekend the ground stays workable I keep fixing up the beds to accommodate more roses...so now I have room for another order from Roses Unlimited!

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think we may be marginal here, but the backyard is protected from winds on three sides with fencing or a hill and facing south, so it is worth testing whether we have a microclimate that will support them--other roses seem to act like it is warmer than it is. I'm going to give it a try, bury them good and see how they do.

    I ordered a Liv Tyler, Peter Mayle, Colette, and Yves Piaget at Roses Unlimited. Now I have to slot all of the new guys into the garden plan, do a little more digging and admit that I'm out of room for this season for real! Thanks again for the encouragement on Peter...

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bury graft unions a couple inches, but I don't provide winter protection. However, my neighbors oak trees blow some leaves into my yard, though not all the roses get protection from them. Regardless, for my HTs, I usually have to prune them nearly to the soil-line every spring. So be prepared.

    Good luck with all your new roses. You'll be in quite a state by next spring as the first leaves start putting in an appearance--bet you don't sleep for the first couple months of spring! LOL. At least, I wouldn't!

    Kate

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Should be easy enough to collect some leaves, as we're on the end of the block and end up with many of our neighbor's as well as our own. And I think I've found a spot for Peter that will keep him a bit protected from both the winter winds and from flower-burn in the heat of summer.

    Thinking about exactly where everything should go is a great way to relax during the dark nights of winter. And, like you, I love the added excitement of spring because I can get out every day to watch the new babies leaf out and open their first blossoms and can figure out which ones are beautiful, fragrant new additions!

    I've gotten used to what to expect from the Austins, so it's been great getting additional non-Austin suggestions to broaden what I try to grow to some OGRs, Heirlooms, Romanticas and, of course, still more Austins...and I still have a long wish list with comments about many that didn't make it to this year's order...

    Thanks again and best wishes as you make your garden plans for next year too!

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If it makes any difference, I don't think Peter Mayle is susceptible to flower-burn in the heat of summer. Although it is described as shade tolerant, I'd describe it as heat tolerant also. Mine are in 6+ hours of afternoon sun, and we had over 100 degrees for two months straight this past summer. While the whole garden starting going dormant as that triple-digit heat approached the two-month limit, I seem to remember Peter being one of the last to "give up" in that searing heat. Even then, I don't remember burnt edges. It just more or less finally shut down in all that excessive heat.

    Kate

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's good to know--my warmest spots where I'd likely get the most robust growth and best microclimate for a cold-sensitive rose get a LOT of sun. So if I can put him there, that would be ideal. I've had a few that can't take the heat, like Princess Alexandra of Kent at present--I finally got a sense of how beautiful her flowers were when the weather cooled this fall. She's slated to be moved in spring to give her some protection.

    Are you planning to get new ones for the upcoming year or enjoying the ones already in the ground?

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm quite excited about three Austins I've ordered for spring: Lady of Shalott (golden apricot), The Pilgrim (yellow/white blend), and St. Swithun (light pink). All three are supposed to be very floriferous and disease-resistant. Pilgrim and St. Swithun are climbers. I do hope they turn out as nice as a number of posters here have claimed.

    Other than that, I'm pretty much out of space. I'm amazed when I read things you've written like having another spot you can plant a rose in. It has been some time since I had extra space available. The only reason I have space for the three Austins is because I spaded two of my roses (one had RRD, unfortunately; and I just didn't like the other one after 3-4 years of poor performance) and the third one up and died on me. I have no idea why, although I suppose 2 months of 100+ heat didn't help any.

    At any rate, enjoy all that space while you have it. I really miss how exciting it was once upon a time to order a dozen or so new roses for the spring.

    Kate

  • stlgal
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please let us know how those do for you, particularly Lady of Shalott! I really wanted to include that one in this year's order, but it wasn't sold by Pickering, Heirloom, or Roses Unlimited. I think maybe it is too new and only at DAR, although let me know if you found it elsewhere in the US.

    The upside of RRD (if there can be such a thing) is that one has to decide whether the same variety is worth replanting or to try something new. I won't be able to expand my garden too much more, without taking out other kinds of plants. But I've had more space the last couple of years as I convinced the spouse to install a bunch of new beds where the light was good for roses and where I could easily visit and smell their wonderful fragrances every day! Not too many more places I can do that though...