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philippos_gw

my roses are dying! Please help!

philippos
9 years ago

I live in Las Vegas, NV, and I have 3 potted roses that were formerly in the SF Bay Area. Summer here is extremely hot and long and I kept them mostly in the shade. I noticed their older leaves were chlorotic and gave them some liquid-dissolving fertilizer. Several days later their older leaves started to turn brown around the edges and dying off. Their younger leaves go from bright green to dead without turning brown. They just turn crispy and die off while still green. I also noticed the stems are an unhealthy green, then turn brown green, then black. This has been happening to the stems one by one.

Is my diagnosis correct or is something else?

Is there anything I can do to save them? Would transplanting help or would it stress them even more? Would flushing them with lots of water help?

They are in 10*13 pots, how often should I be watering them?

I have attached some photos.

They belonged to my beloved fiancee who recently passed away and they are very dear to me. Please help.

Comments (33)

  • noacceptance772
    9 years ago

    What you did wrong was feed them at the worst time.
    What you can do is flush the soil clean of fertilizer by watering the pot till lots of water flows out of the holes on the pot, then allow the pot to properly drain till the soil is moist, not soggy.
    Prune off all dead and damaged parts and remove damaged leaves. keep the plant in a cool and shaded place in your house till the buds start to produce new foliage. When the weather gets better and not so darn hot, you can put them out again.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    I agree with noacceptance, you should never fertilize or spray an already stressed plant. The key to their recovery now is water, Water, WATER! Flush them right away and keep them well watered and wait. I don't recommend taking roses inside but definitely some shade would help. If possible put them somewhere where they will only get some morning sun and are shaded for the rest of the day.

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
    9 years ago

    I have nothing to add to the previous posts about what to do to help your roses recover. Don't fret about it too much - we all make mistakes in wanting to care for our roses too much but it doesn't yet look like the rose is dying. These leaves are toast, but the canes look healthy from what I can see and they'll probably put out new leaves if you can water them sufficiently, and maybe provide some afternoon shade (putting a lawn chair over them in the hottest part of the day can be a strategy if they're in the ground).

    Heartiest sympathies as well on your fiancee who passed away. It's a lovely tribute to her to care for her roses, and I'm sure she would appreciate the intent as well if you were to add to these roses including possible replacements should these run into further problems down the road.

    Hope this helps!

    Cynthia

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all so much for the advice. I plan to keep them well-watered, though I am worried about overwatering. How do I know if I'm overwatering?

    I am also torn as to whether to take them inside. We have at least another 2 weeks of 95-100 degree weather coming here. What could hurt them if I took them inside? Then again they've lasted all summer in over 100 degree weather and would probably be surviving fine if I hadn't fed them.

    One of them definitely looks like it's going to make it, as I see new growth at one cane tip. The other two I am more worried about because I don't see any new growth and all the cane tips are black. and the nodes on the cane are crispy and break off.

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    Personally, I would keep them outside.

    But I would check for a spot that maybe gets and hour or two of morning sun and then shade the rest of the day. I would also check to make sure they are not getting radiated heat off a wall or window near by or even the ground they are sitting on getting too hot. Remember as we move away from the summer months, the position of the sun changes too and a previously cool place might be heating up.

  • mzstitch
    9 years ago

    I agree with posters above, keep the rose outside in mostly shade, giving it some morning sun would be perfect. I just wanted to add some advice for the future once your roses do recover. When the temperatures are above 90 its likely your roses will need to be watered daily. The key is to make sure they drain well, moist soil is good, but soggy soil is not. If your pots are sitting in a basin that holds water at the bottom of the pot remove it, let them drain completely. Watering daily is especially true if they are in a clay or ceramic pot that retains heat. I prefer foam or plastic pots in my heat. In the future when you fertilize a potted rose you want to use fertilizer at half strength, unless it is fish fertilizer which you can use at full strength. I'm betting your roses will recover nicely.

  • bluegirl_gw
    9 years ago

    You can water daily or twice daily or more, as long as the water runs out the drain holes & doesn't pool inside the pot. The more water, the faster you'll flush out the excess fertilizer.

    You can clothes pin a sheet over them for a week to shelter them from the hottest sun if you don't have a shady place, but I agree with everyone else--roses HATE indoors--indoor air is often drier that the driest desert air outside.

    Hang on, cooler weather is coming & I hope all of your plants recover. Just cross your fingers & keep up the supportive care.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    The problem with bringing them inside is that most homes are much dryer than the outside, even in hot and dry climates. And roses need sunlight to produce food. They won't get enough of that indoors. Roses placed in a window are getting filtered sun and not the full spectrum of light they need. It's better to keep them outside and in partial shade than inside. I know that there are some people who have had some luck with wintering roses inside but that is the exception and not the rule. Roses are not house plants and always do better outside.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So as long as the pots drain well, there is no risk of overwatering? Because even though the air is really hot and dry here, the soil in the pots stays moist for days. Yesterday morning I soaked them very thoroughly and this morning the soil was still wet.

  • mzstitch
    9 years ago

    If you soil is moist there is no need to water them.

  • carlota
    9 years ago

    Hi,
    I have a few questions...
    How long has it been since you moved the roses from S.F to NV?
    Do you know which roses you are growing?
    How big are your rose bushes?
    What type of potting soil are they growing in?
    Everyone here has a generous nature and will help you save your roses.
    Carlota

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Carlota,

    I moved to LV in January. We had the roses in SF in pots, but they had all grown serious roots through the drainage hole at the bottom of the pot and were solidly rooted in the ground! They produced many huge blooms with beautiful colors and we never had to do anything to them, just watered them, and not even that often. It was a struggle to move them and I felt bad for tearing up their roots.

    I have no idea what type of roses they are. Two of them have single thick stalk about 3 feet tall, almost treelike, with canes growing out of the top. The other one is fairly low, with medium size leaves leaves that honeycutter bees seemed to really like. That one has white flowers, the other two pink and yellow.

    I have no idea what kind of soil they are in. Smells good though.

    One of the tall ones I am less worried about because I see new growth. The other two I *am* worried about though they are so far maintaining. One of them is the one in the photo that has had its leaves scorched. The other has lost most of its leaves (which died while still green, no scorch), but what leaves it has left seem ok. All but one of its canes have turned black on the outside though, which I find alarming. On both the ones where I don't see new growth, the cane tips are black and break off. Would cutting them off encourage new growth?

    I went to LA a couple of days ago and watered them very thoroughly because we've been having 100 degree afternoons here. I just came back and I see no deterioration, but no improvement either. The soil was still wet, almost soggy in fact. We are expecting 2-3 more days of real hot weather here (100s), and after that it will start cooling down to the low 90s (time to break out the winter clothes!).

  • oxboy555
    9 years ago

    Potted roses should be in the "5-1-1" mix (research this soil mix in the Container Forum). They need a few hours of morning sun and afternoon shade in summer. Water every 3-4 days if in 5-1-1.

    As you see, I live in Vegas too and can help you. I grow roses frequently.

    Post up a picture of the potting soil you're using if you can. I'm guessing it's too water retentive and your plants will suffer until you get them into something lighter like 5-1-1.

  • meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
    9 years ago

    If the soil in the pots is such that you could transplant them without disturbing any roots, I think I'd move them to larger pots with new soil added. Don't use soil with fertilizer, though! Then water them well and keep them from getting too hot. I'd prune out the black.

    I killed some plants this year by using a new fertilizer on them in the summer, darnit :( The shrubs that pulled through did OK after I added new soil on top (in the ground) and then watered that new soil in really well. One weigela was nearly toast until I did that, even after flushing out the soil. If the fertilizer has any visible pieces, hand-pick those up, too!

    The ones I could re-pot did great. I used a topsoil with a loose texture to avoid adding any more fertilizer to their environment and watered it together really well after they were in the new pot.

    It was the first time I'd used a fast-acting fertilizer that strong, and I think I'll stick with my fish goo and other organics! I used the recommended rate, and it still worked out just terribly.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    At this point I don't dare re-pot them because I'm afraid it will finish them off. I will probably transplant them to bigger pots once the weather cools off and they have recovered.

    I am also done with industrial fertilizers - from now on organic only, if at all. I used the recommended rate for mine as well and now they are fighting for their lives. I am also leery of soil bought from nurseries, I have a feeling they put all kinds of crap in it. Any recommendations on where to get soil in the LV area?

    I watered them on friday and the soil is still plenty wet. Definitely need to look into 5-1-1, but again, I don't want to disturb them right now.

    Thank you all for the wonderful advice, I really appreciate it.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So the rose that is pictured at the top of this page has now lost all its leaves.

    Is there still a point to it getting AM sun since it has no leaves? Would full time shade be better? Is there anything I can do to encourage it to grow new ones?

    The canes still look healthy but I see no new new growth even after all this time so I am still worried.

    The other plant I was worried about does show some new growth, albeit very little, and so I am less worried about it now. It seems I have flushed out the fert and the am sun pm shade schedule must have helped.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    Yes, you still need to protect them from the hottest sun in the afternoon. The rose cane itself will sunburn if left exposed to that bright, hot sun. If it damages the leaf nodes it won't be able to produce new leaves. No leaves = no food for the plant and it will die. But total shade will not allow any photosynthesis. The plant needs some sun but no burning sun. The rose will regrow leaves from the nodes along the cane. It just takes time so be patient. It may take a couple of weeks before you see and real leaves on them. And just to reassure you, they may start out red in color so don't be alarmed by that. Many roses have red new growth that will turn green as it matures. As long as the canes remain green and do not shrivel, whither or turn black or brown they are alive. Any canes that are already black should be CUT off not snapped off. Snapping can cause further damage that can allow diseases to get in more easily.

    If I'm reading correctly you dug these roses out of the ground in SF and potted them and moved them to LV. When you dug them up did you put the root balls with the soil from the ground in the pots? Or did you remove the soil from the ground off of the roots and pot them up with POTTING soil? If they are in soil from the ground that could be a BIG part of your problem. As Oxboy noted, you need a much lighter weight soil mix for pots so that it will drain properly. Ground soil or top soil is too heavy a mix and will retain too much water. Unfortunately too much water and too little water will result in the same leaf loss. So you need to know what kind of soil you're dealing with.

    The two with the three foot trunks are indeed called tree roses or standards. Can you take pictures of all of these roses in their pots so we can see the size of the plants and pots? I do agree that as long as it's still very hot there you shouldn't further disturb them by repotting them. But when it cools off somewhat bigger pots and better soil may be exactly what you need to do to make them happier.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have the plant in a location where it gets AM sun and PM shade, so I am hoping this is what is needed.

    The soil in the pots is not soil from the ground, at least as far as I remember. We always had them in pots, but they had grown roots through the drainage holes at the bottom of the pot. When I move them, I had to cut the roots at the drainage hole. I felt terrible for doing so, but they managed ok here in the spring, though they didn't seem too happy (small, infrequent blooms). It's when summer came around that the problems started.

    Nonetheless the the soil does seem to retain water a lot. I watered them two days ago and even it's been really really hot and the plant is in a clay pot, the soil is still plenty moist.

    This post was edited by philippos on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 22:05

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    The clay pot is not a good thing, but I would probably give them some time to recover before repotting as well, but since the roots grew through the holes, is there any water draining out of the pots? You might want to tip the pot to a side and see if they can drain or if they are rotting

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    I agree with Kippy. Clay pots are not good. I would find some of the newer resin pots for them. Make sure they are big and make sure there is more than one hole in the center. I always drill a few extra holes around the bottom of the pot where ever it is lowest so the water can drain freely even if one of the other holes gets plugged up. I also put them up on pot trolleys off the ground. That would help prevent them from rooting through the holes and it keeps the drainage holes open.

    I think what you may be seeing is some culture shock too. The climate difference between San Fransisco and Las Vegas is dramatic. Roses in LV do have a tendency to go sort of dormant in the heat of summer. Almost the way mine do in the winter. A lot of people in very hot climates don't expect much from their roses in those times and just keep them watered and wait for cooler weather when they usually perk up and start to grow and bloom again.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    This is what the canes look like now.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The soil and the main stem.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Another picture of the canes.

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    They photos are hard to tell what is what can you take one that looks at them from the side not top

    The middle one looks like it was a standard or tree and the grafted rose has died and he root stock is trying to revive but that might be the angle of the photo

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    9 years ago

    To me, they look like old canes (brown, gray, woody bark-like look). I don't know how that is usually handled on tree standards, but for regular roses, I would cut those old cane back down to a green side lateral and hope that would encourage the rose to put out some brand new canes from the graft or soil-line area.

    Kate

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Side view of the canes. Notice how the tips are black. Should I cut them off so that the tip is green?

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Close up of the canes. Do these look healthy?

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    Those pots are way too small! Roses need some room to wiggle their toes in. You need to look for pots that are at least 15 to 20 inches wide and at least that deep. Like I said find resin or plastic pots. clay is not good and will be too heavy in those sizes.

    Take off any of the black tips but Kate is right. The heavy brown ones that look like tree bark are good canes just older ones. You want to leave those alone.

    When the temps cool off get them in the bigger pots with good potting soil, keep them watered and be patient. they should recover.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Will definitely move to bigger pots once the weather cools off. How long can they go on without leaves though? It looks like we will have temps above 90 till next week at least.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I am confused now. Kate is telling me to cut the old brown canes to a "green side lateral" but seil is telling me to leave them alone. Which is it?

    Also, what is meant by a green side lateral? No idea what that means and I want to be absolutely certain before I do anything this time.

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I am confused now. Kate is telling me to cut the old brown canes to a "green side lateral" but seil is telling me to leave them alone. Which is it?

    Also, what is meant by a green side lateral? No idea what that means and I want to be absolutely certain before I do anything this time.

  • jacqueline9CA
    9 years ago

    Since they have been moved, and otherwise stressed, I would leave them alone for now until you are able to put them into bigger pots when it is cooler. If the soil is damp or wet you do not need to water them more. Just make sure it stays damp.

    Jackie

  • philippos
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So I cut off the cane tips that were black, and now the tips of the canes are turning black again. What does this mean?

    I'm thinking at this point of cutting off one or two healthiest looking canes and try to get them to grow roots. As there is still no sign of new growth after all this time, I worry that it's not going to make it.