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bellarosa009

Master gardener advice on roses

bellarosa
9 years ago

So, I'm no rose expert but I'm been growing them for over 20 years. I have around 30 of them scattered around my yard. Anyway, this past weekend I went to a local nursery to see if there were any good deals on roses. While I was there, a woman struck up a conversation with me about roses. She said that she had a friend who was a Master Gardener who told her to treat roses like annuals. I told her that no, that's not true. I told her that there are hardy roses, like Canadian Explorer roses, rugosa and the older varieties. I also told her that hybrid teas can be iffy in Zone 5 (Chicago), but if you protect them by mounding them, they can usually do well. Ugh...I hate when folks say that roses are annuals. That's just bad advice. Phew..ok, I feel better now. I just had to rant. LOL.

Comments (21)

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    9 years ago

    Sad and frustrating, but not surprising, I'm afraid.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    9 years ago

    It's amazing that "master gardeners" think the only roses in existence are hybrid teas and floribundas. Very disappointing, too, since so much misinformation is passed on that way. I'm glad that you were able to correct that error. Gardens everywhere would be a lot more interesting if the general public knew of the many different varieties that can be grown in almost any climate.

    Ingrid

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    if you ever took the master gardener class ...

    you might not be impressed with peeps who claim that as their ONLY qualification ...

    dont get me wrong... its better than nothing ... and gold stars for doing it ...

    but in reality ... its isnt much of a curriculum vitae ... [not to mention.. the whole.. a friend of a friend told me this info ... lol ...]

    ken

  • bellarosa
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Sadly, it is a reality. There are so many beautiful roses out there and bad advice like this, just scares folks away from trying to grow them. It really irks me. On the plus side, I did get a sweet deal on a Cl Jasmina rose. I can't wait to plant her. Her pink blooms are so beautiful.

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    9 years ago

    If the gardener knows nothing about roses and just wanders in to a local garden center which carries nothing but hybrid teas (most of which are too tender for those zones), then the roses probably will often behave like annuals--for that gardener.

    Of course, nowadays, local garden centers probably carry mostly Knock Outs--which can handle cold weather--so maybe that problem is less common nowadays. Not sure is that is much of a consolation, however.

    Kate

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    ARRRRGH!!!! That kind of advice makes me crazy when I hear it.

    I don't think much of the Mater Gardener program. I know several people who have that designation and are complete brown thumbs and couldn't tell a rose from a daisy! Also from what I can gather the program itself is rather rosaphobic.

    Yes, nurseries do sell inappropriate roses sometimes but they can only carry what they can get too. One of the people in my rose society is the rose buyer for one of the biggest nurseries in the area and I've seen what he has to choose from when he places his order in the fall. They order from both Weeks and Star and for the most part HTs and floris are all that's offered to them....along with KOs of course. Frank does try to get any OGRs he can because those are actually his favorites but he can't carry what he can't order. I begged him to get minis in but he says they only had access to a handful and they were all decorative and not exhibition style. He also has records of what has sold in previous years and which ones got left behind. The nursery doesn't want to lose money either so they order the ones that sell. In the end people get what they ask for and will buy.

  • Embothrium
    9 years ago

    If Weeks and Star are the only wholesale companies left then that is really too bad.

  • zzackey
    9 years ago

    I have been a master gardener for 3 years now. I constantly hear of other MG's wrong advice. We are only supposed to give out advice approved by the University of Florida. I know I shoot from the hip on here. It's hard after working in a garden center for 4 years in Pa, two plant nurseries in Florida and having my own nursery for 10 years in Florida. The MG program is intense to say the least. I learned so much about a wide variety of things, it was hard to comprehend it all. The idea of the program is to spark interest, IMO. Just because a person is a MG doesn't mean they know it all. It was a learning tool and a stepping stone for me. I am learning new things every day. MG is about dedication and the willingness to learn new things and still obey the rules of the University of the State you are in.

  • boncrow66
    9 years ago

    We had a nursery open not too long ago with a sign that states they specialize in Antique roses and day Lillie's. It is owned by a lady and her husband and sits in the back of their property. I gave her a call to find out when she would be open and it was going to be a few more weeks so I asked her what were some of the names of her antique roses and she stated she didn't know the names but she had some red ones, yellow ones and pink. I was appalled she did not know the names of her roses and she told me she recommends Bayer 3 in 1 for fertilizing. She said she was selling roses she ordered from ARE and I was welcome to come look. I even asked for specific roses such as Mrs. Dudley cross and she hadn't heard of any of the roses I mentioned. She then said she was going to take a MG class to learn more. I just couldn't believe that some one who ea advertising that they specialized in antique roses really had no idea what they were talking about. I feel sorry for people who are going to visit her nursery expecting someone that is knowledgable and thinking she will be giving them good advice on roses and how to care for them. I don't think that's fair to the customer who may be new to roses, I hope whoever does buy from her has a good experience with what ever they buy and I hope ARE is recommending roses that do well in out climate when she orders from them. I may have to pay her a visit just to see what she has in her inventory but I will know better than to ask for advice. I am glad I found this forum before I found her lol. I do wish her luck in her mg class and hope she is a little more educated on roses.

  • catsrose
    9 years ago

    Master Gardener programs differ from not only from state to state, but also from region to region. A lot depends on the lecturers available and how serious the staff takes it. And, of course, those who take the program run the gamut. I know people with college degrees who can't write a five word sentence, calculate a percentage or tell the difference between there, their, and they're.

    Does anyone know of any institution that teaches people how to admit they don't know something?

  • bart_2010
    9 years ago

    I think I'd mistrust anyone who touted themselves as a "Master Gardener"

  • Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
    9 years ago

    This thread kind of makes me sad and rethink my plans to take the course . :(
    I thought it would be a great way to meet other gardeners and learn of things I know nothing about ( soil , lawn care , fruit trees ). Is it really that bad ?
    I would think anyone interested in learning and expanding their depth of knowledge would enjoy it . By no means would I think I'd be an expert but I'd hope to learn more than I started with .

  • boncrow66
    9 years ago

    I think learning new things is a good thing so if you want to take the course I say go for it. For me the master garden programs sounds like it teaches a little about a lot of different things but that doesn't necessarily mean someone would be a expert in everything.

  • roseblush1
    9 years ago

    Part of the problem is that roses are regional and that is ignored by most master gardener programs. I was asked to teach the section on roses up here in the mountains, but when I told the program director that I prune differently than what is advised by the ARS because I've found the roses do better with a different approach, she decided to have the rose section of the course taught by the ARS people down in the valley.

    Of course, some of the roses will do OK, roses are survivors, but the climate in the valley is significantly different than what we have up here, so the information they learned is the generic rose information that works better in a different climate.

    I am just sorry I didn't have a chance to make a difference.

    Smiles,
    Lyn

  • anntn6b
    9 years ago

    In Knoxville there have been two Master Gardeners with real knowledge of roses; sadly one has moved over near Nashville.

    Even sadder, in a way, was one gardener, who loudly and at every possible occasion proclaimed himself over the airways and in print as as MG who advised anyone who wanted rose blooms here to buy plastic roses and put the plastic roses in their gardens. He died of a heart attack. R.I.P.

  • vasue VA
    9 years ago

    Looked over the regional course some years back & decided to pass. Pretty typical pest & disease management content stressing all the chemical variations of "-ides". Could have ignored that part for myself, but one of the purposes is to serve as consultant volunteer to the public & toe the party line on those (indeed, all) subjects. As an organic gardener some 50+ years, unwilling to go there.

    A neighbor's a MG, which she's proudly told me each of the few times she's been out walking & stopped to chat in the garden. She's admired the self-sown colonies of native wildflower Corydalis lutea here. so I've given her several nice clumps, complete with extra soil & seeds as well, but she's yet to have them survive. Being the curious type, offered to brainstorm with her what might be helpful to get them established, but she wasn't the least interested. When I want to know how another grows something successfully, I'm eager to learn & full of questions, especially when the opportunity is hands on in the garden! She's yet to extend an invitation to drop by her garden, which she says is extensive & full of treasures, nor offered to share. Since it's in her backyard, never even glimpsed it from the road. (Because of the rolling nature of my yard, the main garden is on the level land out front & partially visible - pros & cons to that, as I'm sure many in the same boat can attest.) Somehow the Pollyanna in me assumes all gardeners are generous by nature - guess I've lived a sheltered life. Very personable lady in other respects, but not what I'd consider a glowing example of the MG concept. Perhaps she consulted her experts about the wildflower's culture...

    (Fair warning: Bit grumpy at the moment since the weather's not cooperating with my intense desire to be out working in the garden. Childish, but true. Thanks to you each & all for the next-best here!)

    Seems to me the designation is misnamed. The course offered next Spring runs one day a week for 3 months, around 12 sessions, with intros about it held today & twice more in the next month. Somehow that doesn't impress me as enough to become a master at anything. Heck, I've spent many years pursuing practical knowledge on a number of subjects, and don't expect to ever master any of them. Always so much more to learn...

    This post was edited by vasue on Thu, Oct 16, 14 at 16:23

  • Samuel Adirondack NY 4b5a
    9 years ago

    i talked to someone who took the master gardener course. she was amazed when I told her there were roses that were cold hardy and didn't need to be winterized with straw in a basket around them. she said she was going to chop roses down to inches tomorrow. i let out a noooooooooo. She suggested i take the master course. no thanks

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    9 years ago

    I have a little more respect for Master Gardeners than some of you do--except that they have big holes in their education, as in, they know nothing about roses!

    Or at least none of the ones I know learned anything about roses.

    Kate

  • SCMG
    9 years ago

    I took the MG course about 20 years ago. It was just one part of a lifelong interest in everything to do with plants. As any true gardener knows, we spend hours and hours reading up on plants, propagation, pruning, planting techniques, thinking about garden design, perusing catalogs, sharing with friends, admiring gardens in pictures and in person, visiting nurseries, etc etc.

  • buford
    9 years ago

    A better bet for roses would be a consulting rosarian. Your local rose society will have names and contact info.

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    It may be different elsewhere, but in my general area many Consulting Rosarians are only really versed in modern roses.

    Jeri