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cjrosaphile

Am I just cheap? Heirloom bands, now $20-$28?

cjrosaphile
9 years ago

I just got onto Heirloom and was blown away by their "new" pricing. WTH? Seems like I was just there and their roses were $18, and $8 for their miniatures. Their miniatures are now $20. A $12 increase? And $8 to $10 increase on their small bands. . .that take two to three years to grow to normal size?

I just shovel pruned The Poet. . .a spindly little non-performer and disease prone. And I have owned several others of theirs -- most not too impressive. Certainly, they know that some of their roses are not very good. With the price increase, how could they possibly justify selling them. At the lower price, I might try them and not be too worried about it. But now? Losing a rose would be a major loss. I certainly will not be just buying for fun anymore, but will research and make sure that whatever I get will survive and perform well.

Time to start taking cuttings from my friends. Or buy body bags.

Comments (32)

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    9 years ago

    I'm not sure whether you noticed that the price now includes shipping, handling, taxes, etc. so in the end I don't think they've really added on too much to the cost. This way you can see immediately how much the rose, inclusive of the other expenses, will cost you.

    Ingrid

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    There might be a couple of dollars difference, but it you check rogue you will see their prices are more a uniform price now too. Many $13.95 roses are now $17.95 and that is before shipping.

  • ArbutusOmnedo 10/24
    9 years ago

    I noticed that yesterday as well. It seems that it "encourages" the purchase of smaller or single rose orders by eliminating the ability to balance out or lower shipping costs per plant with a larger order. It's about the same price for an order of one individual rose, but a little bit more in orders with multiple roses.

    Jay

  • kstrong
    9 years ago

    double post -- don't know why

    This post was edited by kstrong on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 19:13

  • subk3
    9 years ago

    I suspect that no one in the heirloom rose business is getting rich. The events of the last few years with more and more loses of vendors suggests they aren't even making money. I'm happy to pay what I need to to keep these guys in business and I suspect it's a fair price.

    What we want when we buy own root OGRs are basically custom orders available on demand. Quality, availbilty, inexpensive are three things that a business cannot provide all in the same product and still make money--pick two.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    9 years ago

    I paid $86.00 for 4 rose bands from a nursery in FL in the Spring this year. I thought it was pretty high. Burlington has good prices on rose bands. I will order more from them next Spring. Their shipping was very low, I think it was $11.50 for 6 rose bands.

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    $25 each from RU plus $5 for packaging/handling 3 minimum

    $34 from ARE for one

  • bluegirl_gw
    9 years ago

    Burling is selling quality bands at a very good price & is very considerate with her shipping. I ordered a few this spring & have already had to move them into 7 gallons.

    IIRC, it's $11.50 per regular rose, $7.50 for minis. She has a huge selection of ogrs & moderns.

    She packs either 6-8 in a Priority large box for the flat rate. Heck, I just placed an order & she threw in a last minute request, gratis. And she's done that before, too, with a little Dresden Doll she thought too small to charge for.

    Nice lady, excellent product, price & customer service.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    You are paying for a specialty item really. If you just want the run of the mill roses that you can buy anywhere, you can find them cheaper. But if you are looking for an out of the ordinary variety then you have to pay more. On the other hand Knock Outs were $10.00 more than any other variety all over the place here this spring. Why? Because of the high demand for them. They know people want them and will be willing to pay the extra dollars to get what they want. But we aren't satisfied with Knock Outs. We want those rare or special varieties that aren't in every nursery or big box store around town. So we pay the extra dollars for the varieties that we want. It's the same difference really. Just different strokes for different folks.

  • Dar Sunset Zone 18
    9 years ago

    I'm just glad the rose hobby hasn't come to a point where we have to front $100 for that hot new release everyone clamors about yearly. Just check out the plant rates in the daylily hobby if you don't know what I mean.

    The justification for higher prices may be due to having to maintain such a large variety of inventory and rising cost of doing business. But I wonder how artificial the mark up is when we have some mail order sources that can provide bands for way cheaper with very reasonable shipping cost and also carry quite a vast array.

    This post was edited by musaboru on Sat, Oct 4, 14 at 3:04

  • cjrosaphile
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks all for the input and for the clarifications. I don't mind spending a higher price for a specialty rose and I have. It's just that now, I'm going to be doing a lot more research and make sure what I buy from them will be a performer. No more experimentation at that price which saddens me a bit. It's either that or wait for their yearly sale at the end of the season. I particularly appreciate you all mentioning other vendors. Awesome.

  • wirosarian_z4b_WI
    9 years ago

    I've seen a few local nursery centers selling potted up new release roses in the mid-$40 range so I suspect that these prices along with mail order prices are a sign of where rose prices are going....sigh!!!!!!

  • roseseek
    9 years ago

    It's a sign where all prices are going. I think if you looked at the overheads of the various nurseries, that would explain a lot of the pricing difference. Add special packaging; shipping based upon weight and distance versus Flat Rate Priority Mail, and that explains another large chunk.

    One person performing every function, while also working other jobs, producing other "crops" for other outlets, can produce a band sized rose for a significantly lower price than a business with numerous employees; large display gardens hosting annual public events; utilizing winter heated green houses versus unheated houses, etc.

    Remember Vintage's shipping rate charts? Using that standard, "old school" shipping method could cost two to four times what using Flat Rate Priority costs for the same size, same weight purchase to the same address. Packaging choice can also add significant costs. Purchasing standard boxes, or even creating specialty packaging, are much more expensive than simply going on line and ordering Priority boxes from USPS.com to be delivered FREE to your address. There are many factors contributing to the costs being compared. Kim

  • mudhoney
    9 years ago

    I was very fortunate in that I got my order in about 2 days before the new pricing structure was introduced. This saved me $66 on the whole order. I imagine with all the uphill battles that rose growers are facing--rose rosette disease, water supply problems, import restrictions, chemical bans, etc..--that prices will continue to rise in the near term. I'm anxious to see if the bands are a real 4" by 4" as listed online, or if they are actually 3" or 3 1/2" (4" nominal), and how large the plant material is.

  • roseblush1
    9 years ago

    Kim, that all may be true, but plants at that price are just too expensive for me on my fixed budget.

    Good grief, the way costs are going up for all things gardening ... and everything else .. I may become a true expert at growing weeds ... lol.

    Smiles,
    Lyn

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    LYN SAID:
    " . . . but plants at that price are just too expensive for me on my fixed budget. "

    At the local Farmer's Market this morning, I wanted to buy Purple Cherokee tomatoes. Most of the vendors had none. :-(

    I found one guy who did have some (and lovely tomatoes they were, too). BUT they were $4.00/lb. That might have been a fair price for the only P.C.'s in the market -- but it was just more than I was prepared to pay.

    So, we said regretfully -- "Sorry. Lovely tomatoes but over my price-limit."
    And darned if he didn't say: "You on Social Security? That's a good enough reason for a 10% discount!"

    So, we happily bought 4 lovely tomatoes.

    But, Lyn, I think your point is well-taken. I not infrequently encounter things that may be a fair price ... but are still more than I can pay for them.

    Jeri

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    Jeri, next time I see you remind me to check on tomatoes....mom is so sick of them at this point in the summer some are just going to waste.

    I try and buy from Burling first because of her pricing and shipping. But Heirloom often runs a good sale and they say they only sell virus free. That is worth something as well. Rogue is more expensive and does not have sales like Heirloom, but I the deal of a "free" rose makes my bill higher with them.

    On the other hand, if I want cheap, HD has Iceberg for $7

  • Michaela (Zone 5b - Iowa)
    9 years ago

    I don't really mind that new pricing if it includes shipping. Makes it a little easier for me to justify just buying one rose if that's all I want at the time.

    I love Heirloom Roses. I bought two Henri Martin Moss Roses and a Salet Moss Rose from them in May and they've grow so well this year. I've been really impressed.

    I prefer buying roses locally because I'm impatient but I will buy from them again for some less common varities!

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    20% off Austins right now. Heirloom Roses

  • nastarana
    9 years ago

    I am looking the catalogue I received from Witherspooon Roses. Prices for bareroot roses range from $19.99 up to 26.99 for the Austen varieties, and I don't think that includes shipping charges.

  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas
    9 years ago

    I looked at some of the miniatures on their sale going on now - buy 3, get one free. Minis that they charged $8.50 for before the price change are now $27. Don't know what previous shipping would have been on 4 roses, but $81 compared to $25.50 - that is a difference of $55.50. I realize these rose companies have a difficult if not impossible task making money, but this seems too much of a jump in price. Am glad I got roses during the last big sale before price changes. I seriously doubt I will be buying from them unless there is a rose I simply must have.

    A shame, I really like their quality and would have continued to order 6-8 at a time. Now, I have no plans to order from them and will check out other vendors. I wonder if there will be a drop in orders, and if so, will it be worth the extra they are now charging?
    Judith

  • Rosecandy VA, zone 7
    9 years ago

    The ones that are $27 are in one gallon pots, which they have never (to my knowlege) offered for $8.50. The normal bands are $20, which is still quite a jump in shipping (~$5-$10 per standard rose. I don't remember the price for minis) but not quite the jump you're describing.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    9 years ago

    True, Rosecandy, but that still is a pretty high price, I think. I also wonder if this will affect their sales such that they put themselves out of business. That would NOT be a good thing!

  • Rosecandy VA, zone 7
    9 years ago

    Oh I agree it's a high price. I just wanted to make sure alameda and any others reading this didn't shy away from Heirloom because they thought they were getting a band for $27. I bought nine roses from Heirloom this year and I'd really hate to see them run themselves out of business!

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    9 years ago

    OK, I did some math regarding my roses coming from Vintage Gardens, Rogue Valley Roses and Heirloom Roses back in Spring 2013. I'm not counting roses I got from Long Ago Roses or Roses Unlimited since they are closer to me, and therefore shipping was much less.

    Keep in mind that this was before the change of ownership at Heirloom, and quite a few roses I got were actually reduced price to some degree (including several 50% off from Heirloom). Oh, and I know it is a crazy number to come in one year, but I started this order in Autumn 2012 and kept adding a few at a time when I had some extra money through Spring 2013.

    Total dollars spent (including shipping) at these 3 nurseries:
    $1446.43

    Total number of roses from these 3 nurseries:
    71

    Average cost (including shipping) from these 3 nurseries:
    $20.37

    Having actually done the math, I wasn't far off when friends asked me how much I spent on roses that year, and I said "figure about $20 per rose" and left it at that....

    OK, let's get more specific -- roses from Heirloom. Again, keep in mind that this total includes on-sale roses:
    $267.99

    How many roses was that?
    14

    That's an average of $19.14 per rose (again, about $20 each).

    BUT WAIT!!!

    When I look into my order history at Heirloom, I can see exactly how much was discounted from my orders:
    $68.25

    Add that to the previous total, to show a full-price order (including shipping):
    $336.24

    Divide that by the 14 roses received:
    $24.02 per rose

    So while we may have "sticker shock" when Heirloom lists its bands at $25 -- or even a couple dollars more (which I'm thinking covers roses under patent), it's really not that much of a jump in price from before, when shipping wasn't included. Or, at least, that's how it is for me on the East coast.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    This post was edited by AquaEyes on Sun, Nov 16, 14 at 22:09

  • Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
    9 years ago

    Aqua eyes , thank you for the break down ! It helps for sure . I agree that it may feel high however my nurserys around town sell for about 30$ each and don't have hardly any selection , that I am interested in .
    I do like that if I feel like treating myself to just one rose , I don't feel pressure to order a handful to get my shipping money worth ! :)
    I was very happy with my bands this summer and will continue to order .
    Also I think when you see a full grown rose from your efforts , 25$ seems like a bargain ! :)

  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas
    9 years ago

    Rosecandy, thanks for clarifying.......I DID think that was a band price. Didn't realize these were larger, gallon size. When I was figuring.....$27 for 3 minis = $81. The old price of $8.50 per mini x 3 = $25.50, leaving a $55.50 difference, shipping being extra, that just seemed a pretty big difference to me when thinking of the band size.

    Never one to shirk when it comes to buying plants, it just looked to me like making a big order was going to be quite a bit more than I would normally spend for the same plants.

    Then when I add up, say, 8 roses @ $27 each, its $216. I never flinched too much paying that.....Am sure Heirloom thought this out well - guess it just seemed way higher. Didn't think twice about it when Vintage was going out of business and I was buying.

    One way of looking at it - if Vintage was back in business, and all those rare old roses that used to be available were now available - how many $27 roses would I snap up without a tinge of thought or regret?? Am going to try to temper my rose buying next spring anyway - build more beds, plant the pot ghetto before I do much more buying.

    Thanks for putting other thoughts out there........putting some things in perspective. I know all these rose companies are doing everything they can to stay in business. I would like to ad that Heirloom's customer service is great, and their band plants are top quality.
    Judith

  • Rosecandy VA, zone 7
    9 years ago

    No problem alameda! I'm just glad we could help you realize you can still make orders from Heirloom without feeling ripped off ^_^ .

    auquaeyes that's an amazing breakdown! That's about what I payed for my roses, too (the ones that weren't on sale). I'm very glad this thread was started, as if I were to see the new prices while shopping next spring it would've taken me a while to figure out that they are actually quite reasonable.

    lilyfinch I also like that I can buy one rose without the pressure of buying more! In fact, if they had had it this way this last spring I would've bought Paloma Blanca instead of just drooling and saying "next year".

  • Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev
    9 years ago

    Just checked the Heirloom site regarding pricing, and the prices on miniatures are what is posted above for the sizes stated but the prices of the other classes of roses are much higher.

    Here are some examples (all include free shipping):

    Baby Cheryl, miniature
    4 x 4 x 6 banded pot $20
    one gallon pot $27

    Lemon Drop, miniature
    4 x 4 x 6 banded pot $20
    one gallon pot $27

    Tuscany Superb, gallica
    4 x 4 x 6 banded pot $26
    one gallon pot $36

    Boule de Neige, bourbon
    4 x 4 x 6 banded pot $26
    one gallon pot $36

    Compare that to what is available elsewhere and Heirloom doesn't compare favorably any more (unless during a big sale).

    Antique Rose Emporium sells bigger roses, in 2 gallon pots for $18.95 plus shipping.

    My last order from ARE was in June of this year:

    Marchesa Boccella and Leontine Gervais
    2 @ $18.95 = $37.90
    shipping $18.27
    total $56.17

    These were a gift and were shipped from Texas to Ohio. I'm in California, and will have to check, but I think the last 2 roses I got from ARE cost about the same to ship to me in California. Two gallon size is significantly bigger than Heirloom's one gallon.

    I just bought a one gallon size Schoener's Nutkana locally (botanic garden nursery). It was $9 (plus tax).

    Greenmantle Nursery in California sells roses in 2 gallon size, but shipped bareroot. These roses are $18 plus shipping (and tax for me as I'm in state). This year I received:

    R. sancta, R. Soulieana, and Cerise Bouquet.
    3 @ $18 = $54
    shipping $13
    sales tax $4.05
    total = $71.05.

    Again, significantly bigger than Heirloom's $36 for one gallon size.

    Forestfarm also sells roses. Their "tube" size is the equivalent of band sizes elsewhere. They also sell roses in one gallon pots (and larger). It's been a couple years or so since I ordered roses from FF, but peruising their site I see tube size roses seem to be running about $9.95 and one gallon's from $15 to $19. It costs $12.50 to ship one tube (western states with zip codes over 80000), bringing the total to $22.45, which is already less than Heirloom's price. Each additional tube costs an additional $.50 to ship. For eastern zipcodes shipping one tube is $12.95 and $.95 more for each additional tube. For gallons and larger see the link below to compare with Heirloom.

    Melissa

    Here is a link that might be useful: Forestfarm shipping cost chart

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    FYI the rosette delizy from ARE after die back is probably the smallest band I have every paid for. I have emailed several times and sent photos. Still waiting to see if the 3" cane and 6" lateral will make it and grow. For me, I am not seeing the 1g size as that big of selling point.

    I should add that the last 1g from ARE is a nice size and bigger than the RD and it might be more a problem with RD.

    This post was edited by Kippy-the-Hippy on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 19:11

  • Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev
    9 years ago

    Kippy, you got a band size Rosette Delizy from Antique Rose Emporium? Or did you mean Heirloom????

    Melissa

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    Melissa, I bought Rosette Delizy from ARE, it arrived with a lot of black canes, first trim back after a week of keeping it in the open shade to see if the canes were live and just dark or dead, I had half of the shipped plant alive. The die back continued, cut off another half trying to keep it alive, cut off another half, what survived is one side of the 3" cane and a 6" lateral. Note I cut about 1/4" below the black with cleaned prunners trying to only cut in clean wood with out cutting off too much. I have sent photos back and forth to ARE and Mike and we are watching it for now to see it it might make it. I has been two months and has stopped dying back and is showing signs of life.

    I am guessing it is a rose not to have shipped that distance, there was some one else that posted previously with a similar problem with the same plant.

    I did get a nice looking General Schablikine that is doing well and a Mlle de Sombreuil that is small but only had a couple of canes die back (shipped with Rosette Delizy)

    I am enjoying Mike's Book, it wonderful.

    But after ordering from 5 different nurseries, I am not seeing a vast difference in purchasing bands vs 1gs.

    So, to me, the price difference between pot sizes is not something I worry about, but the difference in stock/variety availability is what is important.