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Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 14:09

I think I need your help. I have a future rose garden with four quadrants, little fountain in the center, 2ft high boxwood hedge around it. I would like to dedicate two of the four quadrants to growing English Roses, but have a hard time deciding which ones are better for this kind of bedding scheme.

Each quadrant offers room for about three to four varieties of between three and five plants each. I want to avoid the collection of single rose plants that ends up looking chaotic. But a grouping of three varieties of five plants each, or four varieties of three plants each would work.

I am in zone 5, maybe 6a-ish at this point. My only requirement is that they are fragrant (almost all Austins are) and healthy (as much BS resistance as possible). I am not fanatic about 100% resistance to BS and PM, but also don't want to look at bare sticks for half a growing season.The plants shouldn't exceed 4ft, except maybe for a center group who I could see getting to about 5ft, surrounded by lower growing ones. Color wise I am open to whatever, I have not seen an Austin rose color I didn't like. The two varieties I definitely want so far are Munstead Wood and Lady of Shallot. Please suggest some more good varieties of English Roses that will look "right" in this kind of bedding scheme/formal rose garden.

The garden is in full sun, soil is amended clay, pretty good soil for growing almost anything.

Thanks a ton for any suggestions from a design challenged gardener!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

What an exciting project. Make sure we get some in-progress and final pictures. Love to watch these projects take shape.

I'm not sure how many combinations you are looking for, but since you are starting with my two current favorite Austins--Munstead Wood and Lady of Shalott (the Lady is taller than Munstead, you know, don't you?)--I can try to suggest some disease-resistant Austins that might be used with those.

Consider Young Lycidas or England's Rose for a deeper pink with purple overtones, but lighter than Munstead Wood.

Princess Alexandra of Kent is a lovely mid-stage full-colored pink. Jubilee Celebration is a pink blend that ought to work colorwise, but I have to admit my JC has never grown 4 ft tall in the 6 years I have had it. A pink with more apricot colors (I'm thinking of the apricot in Shalott) is Strawberry Hill. Or for more pastel pinks for contrast, two superb ones are Queen of Sweden (with a touch of apricot) and Scepter'd Isle. All these pinks are disease-resistant.

When I'm combining different colors, I like to include a generous amount of white or creamy yellow pastels, especially with a touch of apricot--which describes Wollerton Old Hall which I think would contrast wonderfully well with Shalott, but it may be a bit larger, so maybe Crocus Rose instead. But Port Sunlight might also work well, or the bush form of Teasing Georgia or, especially, The Pilgrim. These white/creamy yellows, some with a hint of apricot, are all disease-resistant also.

I hope that gives you some ideas of combinations you might try. Good luck with your project.

Kate


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Thu, Oct 17, 13 at 12:21

Kate, you are so wonderful, thank you. This is exactly the kind of help I was hoping for, someone that kind of thinks out loud and throws out a few suggestions and what colors are needed to soften things up a bit. Thank you so much!!


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Other hardy Austins to consider are Evelyn, Sharifa Asma, Mary Rose and Heritage. According to the Austin catalog you can contact them and they will help you design a rose garden (see p.99 of 2013 catalog).


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Mon, Oct 28, 13 at 8:54

Hi predfern, just saw your response to my post. Thank you for your suggestions. I had an Evelyn once a few years back, but she wasn't doing very well in my yard/climate/with me? She was always VERY small and feeble looking, always froze back to the soil line. She lasted only three years before a cold snowless week in winter finished her off, together with The Prince. The few flowers she did produce though were unbelievably fragrant and the color was fantastic. I think I will try Evelyn again, but this time close to the house and facing a southern wall to get maximum protection. Mary Rose and Sharifa Asma are on my list for spots among perennials and shrubs. Heritage... I know many consider it a good rose, it just never did much for me. There is nothing wrong with it, and I don't really know why, but it never got me excited... maybe I need to give it a shot again and see if I have changed enough to appreciate it better.

Well, for my upcoming birthday I asked for no gifts other than some English roses. After all the good suggestions everyone gave me, and after studying Austin's catalog for weeks I came up with this idea. I have four quadrants in my old and future rose garden. I decided to make each quadrant in a different color scheme. So one would house mostly yellows and creams and peach colored roses, while one will be mostly pinks and deep maroon (hello Munstead Wood), one will be all reds and pink for contrast, and one will be white and cream and pink... sorta... :-)

So, for my birthday I decided to start with the pink/maroon quadrant. And here are the finalists (drum roll (you can tell I am really excited!!! lol)). Three each of:
-William Shakespeare 2000
-Gertrude Jekyll ( I had no say with Gertrude, this was a MUST by my birthday gift payee :-))
- Princess Anne
- Munstead Wood

Now, if I am good, I might get the second quadrant with peach/soft yellows/creams for Christmas.. :-) I will take a lot of pictures throughout the process.


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

I'm a little late here, but if you're
looking for a compact light apricot Austin, I suggest Tamora. For a larger creamy yellow, I suggest Golden Celebration. Both these roses are excellent bloomers. A third suggestion might be Jude the Obscure, a creamy light yellow with apricot tones. It could get too large for your scheme, though. I'm not sure if your colder zone would mean much smaller roses. I'm glad you're trying Evelyn again. She's a favorite of mine. Here's a pic of Tamora. Diane


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Mon, Oct 28, 13 at 15:38

Thanks Diana, that is a good picture of Tamora. She is on my short list for my apricot/soft yellow/cream quadrant. Given that peachy pink is a favorite color in roses for me, I might need to dedicate two quadrants to that color group..lol.

Unfortunately Golden Celebration is very susceptible to BS in my yard. I had that rose before, absolutely fantastic blooms, but the bush was pretty nude from July on. It fought to regrow foliage, but it is VERY BS susceptible in my area... such a shame because the color and shape and fragrance of the rose are really breathtaking.


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Sharifa Asma is definitely a suggestion. Jude gets large for me but will probably stay smaller for you because of your colder climate.

For what it's worth, I personally find standard ("tree" roses) roses look particularly nice extended daintily above boxwood hedges.

Here is an example from Burlington Roses

Josh


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 10:29

As it turns out I was good enough for Santa to allow me to put together a second list of roses for the next quadrant in my rose garden. The first one was all pink and maroon colored roses, this next one will be in the yellow/peach/buff cream side of the spectrum. So far I know I will get Lady of Shallot, and after seeing the new varieties for 2014, I want a Tranquility as well. Those two are finalists. Beyond that I am debating between Crocus rose, Lady Emma Hamilton, Tamora, and potentially a healthy yellow like Molineux or Charlotte. Thoughts? Suggestions?


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 14:06

Well, doing more reading I found out that Tranquility has a light fragrance at best, and is not the white with yellow hint in the center as the pictures suggest. I think I will hold off on that one, and reconsider Old Wollerton Hall again, in addition to the other options...


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

You can't go wrong with Molineux, and in my zone it stays within your target 4-5 feet with a little pruning now and then. For me, the Crocus rose is a relatively washed-out "meh" rose, but it's in part shade and not ideal conditions. I have been pleasantly surprised by Pegasus (in its second year from Chamblees), in that it's a less washed out color than I'd anticipated and reblooms fairly well under less-than-ideal circumstances. Tamora is a definite keeper for this area, and you should give Jude the Obscure a second look for the scent alone. I have Charlotte and she's fine, and she definitely stays short and keeps her yellowish color in most weather, but somehow she doesn't look as impressive in her blooms as the others. Probably they're smaller and I don't recall much more than a light scent, but I don't have a good nose for such things.

A happy dilemma though, and you have lots of great choices.

Cynthia


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 19:17

Thanks Cynthia, your observations are really helpful. I noticed that the colors of some of Austin's roses can look very different in different pictures. Hard to get a good sense for them without having seen them.

You mentioned Chamblees. I noticed their prices are a lot lower than other online places, even for English roses. Were you satisfied with your Pegasus purchase from Chamblees? Thanks again!


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

I have always been REALLY pleased with the roses I buy from Chamblee, in that they are nicely mature gallon-sized roses with a good root system and healthy foliage. They seem to rotate the roses they offer for mail order periodically, which may reflect either the changing market or what has enough healthy propagation for a given year. Either way, if a rose I want is offered by Chamblee's, they usually get my first order, since there are plenty of other roses I want offered by my other favorite suppliers, and Chamblee's is among the most reasonable price for plants. All of their plants take off growing well for me, including Pegasus, and at times I've been tempted to give a marginal rose a try because the Chamblee's prices are so reasonable.

Glad the info was helpful - there are a lot of great Austin choices.
Cynthia


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 19:15

Happy Dilemma... Cynthia you are so right. I have been going back and forth on the roses for my second quadrant in my rose garden. I just can't get down to four... I need ya'lls help.... The ones I have narrowed it down to are:
Lady of Shalott
Molineux
Wollerton Old Hall
Jude the Obscure
Tamora

Realistically I have room for only four varieties in this bed. I already resigned myself to two Wollerton's instead of three, since they seem to get a little bigger, though that will actually save some money. Still, I don't have room in that bed for all five varieties... arghh... I need help from the support group here...:-)


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Are you planning to do the planting of Austins 3 to a group as they sometimes advise? Since you mention "only" two Wollerton's that sounds like the case. If so, then I don't think you have a dilemma. Just plant two each of the roses with the most similar color and size together as if they are a group of four and you'd never know they weren't supposed to look that way. My guess for the two most compatible would be Tamora and Jude the Obscure, but my Lady of Shalott hasn't grown up enough to decide how tall she wants to be. Austins tend to be similar enough in shape among the ones you mention that they'd all make a happy rose chaos tumbling around one another.

If I had to decide among the 5 you list, I guess I'd skip Wollerton Old Hall since that's the only one I don't have. Or maybe that's the ONLY one I'd buy, for the same reason (smile). Suffice to say, I'm not the one to ask to prune down your list!

Cynthia


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 8:41

I wasn't going to plant them in the thre-to-a-group way that Austin suggests. I am simply trying to break my usual habit of buying one of each because I like them all. This is supposed to be a more formal rose garden, so "drifts of one" are not an option lol I figured three of each variety would create enough of an impact, but still allow me a total of four varieties to each quadrant so it doesn't look too chaotically. I made an exception to my three rule for Wollerton Old Hall because it is supposed to grow taller than the others, so would be perfect for the back of the bed as seen when standing in the center of the garden. Its taller size should be perfect to be appreciated gently leaning over the enclosing boxwood hedge. I really need to figure out how to post pictures.. Lol

When it comes down to it, I guess I am simply trying to decide between Jude and Tamora...


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Marcindy,
To post pictures, get yourself a free account at photobucket.com (or other service), upload you pics from your computer to photobucket (their directions are easy to follow), click on the pic you want and, in the list of tags to the right, click on HTML CODE (it automatically SAVES), then come over here to the rose forum and in the MESSAGE box, PASTE in the HTML CODE. Click on PREVIEW, and the pic should appear.

You can type before and after the pic, and you can insert as many pics as you wish.

Hope that helps.

Kate


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 10:55

Thanks Kate, will try it.
Marc


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

Jude the Obscure is lovely rose, but it can grow very large, possibly even in your colder climate. Tamora is short for an Austin and compact, so proceed with caution when putting those two together, though Jude is a slow starter, and you may think he's going to stay small. Mine is at least 9 feet tall and 7-8 feet wide. Diane


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

  • Posted by marcindy z5b, Indianapolis, I (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 8:28

9ft by 7ft? Wow... do you think you accidentally got a climbing version of Jude? The catalogs list the final size around 4ft... I wonder if others who grow Jude have observed a similar size after a few years?

Given that Jude might reach those enormous sizes I decided to go with Tamora instead, though I have a different spot in mind for which a bigger Jude would be perfect.

I am going to order for the second quadrant:

Old Wollerton Hall
Tamora
Lady of Shallot
Molineux

Thanks so much for all your help!!
Marc


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RE: Best Austins for Bedding Scheme

No, this was not a climbing Jude--it doesn't exist as a true climber. It's going on 10 years old, and I don't think Austin even listed "climbers" as that time in its catalog (I could be wrong on that). Your colder climate or other factors might limit Jude's size some in your garden, though. Jude is very upright with stiff canes and has no support structures, so I can't imagine trying to bend those canes to make it conform to a support of some kind. Diane


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