Hi Herding. Busy gal you've been. To some of your questions. Planting - do you have a snowballs chance of having gophers? IF you do, do yourself the biggest favor on earth, and line your holes with wire mesh to keep them out. 3/4" mesh or less is recommended, but I had a tough time working with the tighter mesh (and it's REALLY pricey), so I cheated and bought 3x150' 1', 20 gauge stucco mesh, cut in 6' lengths and doubled over (so 3'x3').

For planting soil - there are lots of old posts on soil contents in this forum. Start with a google search with "gardenweb rose planting soil. That will get you started. Find some combo you like that seems similar to your soil conditions.

For our climate, I leave the graft above ground - by about 1/2-1 1/2". When first planting, keeping soil mounded over the graft and around the lower canes will help keep them from drying out. Soil doesn't have to stay up there, but for the first month(s), it'll be helpful for their transition. Of course, I'm remembering that you aren't planting bareroots - you're planting solid 5 gals - so they might not care either way...

Then - mulch. Keep the mulch away from the canes, but about 2-3" over your soil. This is where the horse manure is fabulous. Or old leaves, or any throw awah greenery from other parts of your property.

Stay away from fertilizing new plants. Let them get settled in, and besides winter is coming - even if our winters are mild, they are still winters. I start fertilizing in March.

Plenty of water. Don't let them swim, but don't let them dry out. You will see mild drooping if they are thirsty - don't panic if they do, they'll recover quickly as soon as they get more water.

Unlikely you'll kill them. Roses are H A R D Y. You don't need to give yourself a heart attack worrying about all the minute details. Take a few deep breaths, and it's probably a case of "less is more" in almost all areas you are concerned about - except for water.

And have fun.

News From My (Gonna Be) Garden...

YAY, the Distant Drums look really good this morning. They seem to have handled the planting all right, and are all standing up nicely and seem to be fine with the amount of water they had yesterday.

I went out with all the intention to get some work done - pruning, transplanting the seedlings, working on the placement of the roses, all the things that need to be done.

I came in shortly thereafter...seems I'm still quite tired from yesterday's exertions. LOL. So I just wandered around, watered the backyard roses really well, and clipped spent flowers.

Best news of the day, though, is that my wee small band of St. Cecilia, sitting in a pot in the general direction where she'll live once she's big enough, has a very wee, tiny, weentsy small bud on it. I know I need to pinch the buds off at this point, but I'm going to let it bloom just. this. once. and then pinch off all other buds I find. But my word, it's wee...very, very wee. Of course, so is the bush, which is about 6 inches tall. But it's apparently quite happy with life, or it wouldn't have given me the bud, right? So I'm terribly thrilled.

I will take a break on other things today...and once the electric tiller comes tomorrow, I'll get to work on getting things ready for the back yard bushes.

I do have a question about planting distances, though. Say I want to plant two David Austins to twine with each other, how far apart should I put them? They're the CP Margareta and Teasing Georgia together, or 2 Teasing Georgias and two CPMs together in a grouping. Haven't decided just yet. But I want a big mass of flowers in those spots, so how close would I plant them for that effect, and still be able to keep the roses happy and healthy?

Thanks so much...

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Herding Cats

Harmony, I forgot to add that yes, I've been reading tons of posts on soil, amendments, and potting v. ground planting...and all are wonderfully informative. I am, quite literally, devouring each page I click through when it's a topic like planting, transplanting, and soil.

It's a great resource indeed, this site. Thanks for reminding me to read, read, and read...and then stop worrying and get out and enjoy myself. I am enjoying myself, and that's a delight in my world right now.

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Herding Cats

I will admit that I have not read the whole thread, as I have to get outside and do some work in my jungle, but I will be back to catch up on your story later. I just wanted to comment that I was happy to see Sea Foam heading your list.

That was the first rose I grew. I didn't choose it, she was purchased by my dad from the hospital reduced rack at a big box and brought to me. Boy, how I loved that rose!! Watching her grow from a tiny thing into a beautiful, arching bush was wonderful, and boy, did she put on a show! The neighbors would catch me and say "Did you see your rose bush today? It's just beautiful!"

That said, I'd choose her again any day! She made me so happy. I wish I had room for her at this apartment, but just don't, sadly.

I hope she does as well for you as she did for me!!

This winter, find some time to go into the Pasadena area to the Huntington and look at the Camellias. Having Camellias is like having roses for shade except no fragrance but they last a long time on the plant. There is a great variety of shapes to choose from. Save space for at least 2. They are much easier than azaleas in the ground. Mine are going when the roses have been cut back for the year so I have big lovely flowers while I wait for the first roses.

Hi, Merlcat!

The Sea Foam I have, in a 5 gal, promises to be exuberant and abundant...already there are arching canes, and loads of blooms...and I love the shape of the blooms themselves. It is a very nice rose! I'm not sure it's happy where it is, and where it is intended to go; but never mind. I will move it if need be...it's a great beginning, and I like it a lot already. Right now, Sea Foam is near with the Fairy roses, and makes a beautiful contrast to the little pink blooms on Fairy, but while Fairy seems to be handling the spot, I'm not too sure about Sea Foam. Again, I'll move her so she has a great happy home if need be...

Kitty, yes, camillias are very pretty. There is one at the back gate, which has lived there as long as I've been alive (close to 50 years), and seems to be quite content there. It's in complete shade - it's growing on the north side of the garage wall, by the gate, at the head of the path down the yard...never sees the sun whatsoever. Not a bit of watering, either...that whole strip (N. side of garage) only gets overspray from the lawn, but even that doesn't reach the camellia bush. It's thriving - already has a ton of buds on it; it's white and pink striped, but other than that I don't know what it is. Other than pretty!!

I am thinking of putting one in in the shade spot behind the garage - that's on the east side. That would be in the "secret" or "surprise" garden - that I'll put in gardenias (I found some on tree stock, so am hoping that will take away some of the issues I've had with gardenias on the ground), and where the bell fountain will go.

The "secret garden" is the area that...well, imagine this. A big triple slider from the den to the back patio. You can see a cement patio which steps down to a paver patio, total for those about 15 feet. Beyond that is the yard, green grass. To your left, Papa's garden exists; in the strip of land between the green grass and the fence, that will be filled with David Austins, blue berries, a Blood Moro Orange tree, and other smaller growing bushes.

At the back and to the far right corner, sits another patio, with sandstone pavers, and a double seater swing. Lining that patio, there are potted dahlias and lavender, and a baby Star Jasmine.

That is what you can see from the back slider door. But, if you step out, and walk down the 18" concrete pathway that runs along the south side of the double patios at the back door, you start at the camellia tree. But there is very little else, except a different tree, and a spigot, all the way down the garage wall.

As you walk down the garden path, you don't see much to your right except the sandstone pavers and swing...and then you reach the end of the garage. To your right, a whole garage wall is there...down to the property line (about 25 feet), and there is one tree.

That is the area I'm calling the "secret garden." It can't be seen from the house, or even from the edge of the house patio. But it's there...and if done right, it would be a wonderful surprise as you go to the back...because you don't even know it exists. That's the area I'm putting in the bell fountain, and whatever other plantings will take the heavy shade...all in an effort to create an outside space that is both a surprise and a secret.

But first, I have to put in what I've already got. LOL. To that end, this week I've put in the Distant Drums, built a low free floating brick wall (from left over/salvaged bricks on the property), took down/threw out tons of branches and firewood that I don't want, and put in some echinacea and rudbeckia, salvia, lavender, stock, and garden mums.

I wonder how the next week will go...as the electric tiller didn't get here yet, I couldn't start on the back yard. But that will come soon - this week, maybe tomorrow, and so I can start working that area.

I will say that since the delivery of the roses, I've not been without a dear sweet posy of David Austins in the house...right now, I've got 9 Teasing Georgias in a small bedside vase, and they are delightful indeed.

Delightful.

The terra forming proceeds apace, as they say...and I'm having a ball.

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Herding Cats

Oh ow.

The tiller came yesterday, and it's sitting in the living room, not yet put together. I went to the barn for a friend and her 4 kids, and gave them all pony rides on my big horse, after I rode him tired. LOL...yes, I totally overdid it, but it was utterly wonderful to be up at the barn, and riding, and hanging with kids and friends. But I am indeed paying for it this morning in some big aches and muscle soreness. LOLing at me...

Still, I'll put the tiller together today, and see how well it works. I am hoping it's as advertised...that it indeed can go through packed, sterile soil, and turn it over. I figure I'll be shoveling out the turned dirt, and making a second (or even third) pass, so this will be a several day event. After I get the dirt loose, I'll be adding compost and topsoil, and blending it together, and then adding it back into the holes. If the tiller does what it's supposed to (and as it's been reviewed to do), then I will be ready to plant all the roses in the back by the weekend.

And I got my replacement rose from Jackson and Perkins yesterday; this one, at least, seems to be in decent shape, and should withstand the transplant. My Midas Touch has gone completely yellow, so I think it's on it's way out; it's root system was not at all developed when I transplanted it, and I didn't think it would survive, and I wasn't too fond of it anyway, so I'm not upset...but still. It's sad. LOL.

And, I have two buds on my new Peace rose...as well as a wee small bud on the Fragrant Plum.

It's nice to see new growth and buds; means to me that I'm doing all right, and that what I've done so far seems to be working decently. Which is both reassuring and confirming that I may not kill all the new gorgeous roses that came a week ago.

Anyway, just thought I'd update the thread. I'll work as long as I can today...hopefully it will be a decent amount, but who knows. But at least I've got the tools now, and it's just a matter of getting going and getting 'er done, you know?

I hope everyone has a great Tuesday...

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Herding Cats

Have you ever run a tiller before? I ask because I seem to remember you being in less that stellar physical condition. Feel free to ignore me if I'm remembering wrongly!! However, tillers are brutal on the body. I would recommend you hire in some physical labor for this aspect of the garden. Stand there and supervise, but let THEM do the work. My FIL got a big old honking Sears tiller that he hardly ever used because it was harder work then he had the body for anymore, and it gave him pain in his hands (neuropathy post chemo). I bought a little dink Mantis tiller (that doesn't sound like it would have been up for your spot there) and it made me ache all over when I had to use it for a few hours.

Seriously - if you aren't in tip top body condition, hire a body to help you with this thing.

Minflick, no, I'm not in stellar shape. This is the Earthwise tiller, and it's supposed to be lighter than the Mantis, but has enough power to get the job done. I doubt I'll run it long, and it's definitely far more manageable than a gas tiller and from what I read a Mantis tiller, too. It's only about 30 pounds, but still, when it jumps, it could be an issue...I'll give it a try, but if I can't hack it, I have someone I can hire, or I can make my gardeners company send me some folks over (as payback for the Eden fiasco).

But truth to tell, I was too sore from riding and then walking an hour in sand (the arena is sand) leading my horse around to actually do much of anything today.

Tomorrow, I'll put it together, and I'll see if I can handle it. If not...I'll get someone in. I promise. But I want to give it a shot first.

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Herding Cats

Cats, you can always have some one bring in a gas tiller and do a once thru (like your garden company)and then use the electric tiller to break it up even smoother.

But rest up, SoCal is just getting to the good gardening time of the year.

Cats - good! I can't remember anything I've done that made my hands and arms ache the way running a tiller did. I'm glad you have help waiting in the wings if you need them!

Kippy, you're right...tis the season to start gardening! LOL, my tomato plants are still fruiting. And so is the odd strawberry or three. It's so funny...we shut down in the heat, but as soon as decent weather comes back, everything is up and running...

Min, thanks...I'll tell you what hurts more in the arms and hands department than anything else I've EVER done, and that's a big horse. LOL. Talk about a fight...there is nothing like trying to ride, control, and handle a horse who is scared (or simply mean) and trying it's best to do anything but what you ask...everything from neck down is used...and it all hurts at the end of it. LOL, horses are very strong beasties.

But I will take it gently and easy...I'll see how it goes, and stop when/if I need it. I love, love, love doing it myself, but sometimes, it's a better idea to bring someone in.

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Herding Cats

Cats, I haven't ridden horses since my early 20's, darn it all. A lot of my riding experience was cross country up in the Sierras, and some of the darlin's were not wanting to do that... We had several interesting rides through deep bog meadows, seeing coyotes and wild ducks and one of them VERY nearly cost me my right knee, TYVM. I was so much more fit in those days, aside from the knee injury which took months to heal, I was never more than moderately 'tired' at the end of a long day. Most fun riding I ever had, anywhere! Now that I'm not-so-young, a tiller is not a fun thing for me to contemplate. Luckily, my dirt here is SO bad I'm doing lasagna gardening on top of the clay and rock, rather than digging very much. It's still hard work, but nothing like DIGGING in balky ground!

The old camellia probably has roots way out where it can get water. These plants love a good drink just like roses. Don't make the mistake of feeding a hot fertilizer and ruining your plant. Less is more. I feed a very slow release food in the form of cottonseed meal. Don't get any horse manure near the camellia. Camellia roots are very sensitive and near the soil surface. They don't want a thick mulch like roses do. I give mine a slow deep soak every week in summer and a light surface watering during winter when they go dormant. I love the way they make the flowers when they sleep. When they are ready to eat you will see the ends of the branches make a tender green growth around March for Japonicas. That's when you want to water well and feed them. Right now you should see them plumping up buds for the winter bloom.

So excited for you about the roses. I am back to my old habits and thinking some big DA roses would be better in a new spot and it's going to be a fight to get them moved. I'm thinking late November will be the time. Of course they always come apart in sections and so I end up having to pot up the sections. I can never seem to toss a rooted piece of rose no matter how small. The little rootlings grow into fine plants and the big section that I moved takes a while to get going. I always think- Why didn't I plant the little guys instead?! They look so wonderful in the pots with the first flowers. Eventually the big sections get going and throwing out big new canes and I feel I made the right choice. It sure is fun watching the little roses grow.

Oh, Min, I know *all* about horse injuries...the worst I've had (and it was bad) was when my own mighty steed spooked in a trailer; he knocked me under his feet and trampled me pretty thoroughly. I had a cracked skull, three broken bones in my feet, and was kicked out of the trailer with him jumping backwards over me. I had more bruises than I could count, and had bad headaches for a long time. But I still love him, and ride him, and he did his best to not hurt me (according to the witness), and he's had some issues with trailering (two trailer accidents), so that's just the way it is...I was in the wrong spot for a spook.

Kitty, YES it's so fun to watch things grow. I have a 1/2 flat of seedlings that I'm getting into the ground soon, as well as all the roses. I found an old stump of a rose root, with one wee stem above the bud union, so I stuck it into a pot. It's given me a bit of new growth, so I'm wondering which rose it is. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

We have Santa Ana winds over the next few days, so I'm just going to make sure that they're watered well; I'll prepare the ground, but I won't put them in - too much trauma at once, I think. So they'll stay in pots a few more days.

As for the camellias, thanks for explaining about their root system. This one is seriously old, and has to have it's own source of water as there is nothing I can see giving it any. But I will soak out the spot over the next day or so; and yes, it's got a lot of buds on it.

I've never even thought about fertilizing it...and I was planning on using the manure for the roses and companion plants, and not the camellia. But she's going to be happy with extra water, I think...

I am looking at rebuilding the gate in the next few months. The gate we have is almost as old as I am, and is pretty well shot. I'm going to lower it (it's 6.5 foot tall) to about 4 foot, and change the color - it's brown, so I'm making it white - and maybe build an arbor over it. It will be fun to do that...and create a neat entrance to the backyard garden.

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Herding Cats

Kitty, do you have any experience with moving a very old camillia? I have one in a spot that is right in the way of where I want to put in a new door and porch. (there is a very old, broken pane, painted shut antique window-I want to put in a new door that opens out to the yard and lets fresh air in)

This one is well over 50 yeas old, might be closer to 100 but has dealt with roots being messed and loved a heavy pruning a few years back to paint.

Cats, can I say OUCH!! Having had a mad mare use my chest to push off of after she threw me, horses are heavy!

I stopped at the local public rose garden today, the Distant Drums where looking pretty and green, but a good 4+ feet tall.

Cats - OUCH.... Just, ouch! That sounds awful... Glad he wasn't TRYING to hurt you!

Yes, Kippy, horses are heavy. My mighty steed stands 16.3hh, and weighs in at about 1350...he's a big boy. LOL.

My Distant Drums are just gorgeous...new buds, lots of blooms, and I couldn't be more pleased with their unusual color combo. They are definitely a conversation piece indeed...

Min, yes, OUCH. No, he wasn't trying to hurt me...according to my trainer (who was witness), she said he was doing his best to "tip toe" and even took a whack to his own head, opening up a serious flap between his ears. No, he wasn't trying to hurt me; he tried to avoid me, but I was under his feet, and that was just the way it was. We were trailering to a show, and needless to say I didn't ride at the show, but he did show, under our trainer, and won several classes he was in. I cheered from the sidelines, with gorgeously flamboyant bruises and stoned outta my gourd on morphine. LOL.

Hey, guys? The strangest thing has happened. My Double Delight, an old rose, has NOT been doing well at all. Great place, prime real estate, but nothing. Nada. Maybe one bloom in spring, but it was deformed, and nothing else, despite feeding and watering and all that jazz.

So, I SP'd it, but didn't put it in the trash. I put it into a tub of water, thinking well, maybe I'll have a place in the back. Got going on other things, never changed the water, didn't think about it...

Fast forward to today, about 8 days after putting it into water.

It has not only got new growth on it, but...it has a BUD! Seriously. I mean, what the heck is that? Roses grow hydroponically? Considering it's will to live, I potted it up and put it into my "transitional housing" area. It will have it's own drip waterer, and has a good, protected spot for it. I will probably relocate it into the back yard, but for now, it's in a little cove that gets great sunlight. I am going to see what happens with this bud...

What a surprise! I don't believe it; I looked at, and felt, the bud, thinking it was just some leaves clumped together or something, but no, it's a real bud.

HUH. I don't know what to think at all.

And these winds are sooooo hard on the David Austins...I've watered them, and they've "bounced back", but they were drooping and looking very thirsty. And they're in a relatively protected spot (in the shadow of the north property wall, which blocks the majority of the north wind, Santa Ana) and getting great sun. But they perked up with a long drink...

I'll be putting in drip irrigation tomorrow along that strip of land. It needs to be done, and the glory of drip irrigation is it's easy (*and cheap) to move/extend/relocate when and if the need arises after I've gotten the roses planted.

But what's with that bud on the Double Delight? Seriously...has me scratching my head.

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Herding Cats

I did it, I went to Otto's today.

And yes I bought trees, two of them even and the Munstead Wood for my son and his fiances wedding colors.

(two more roses hopped in the car since there was space-good thing I told mom to stay home...lol)

Whoooo hooo! Kippy got her fruit trees, and the Munstead Wood...and of course two roses came home. Glad Mom stayed at the house so there was room.

Which rose did you decide on?

I will be getting back to gardening tomorrow...the back needs some serious attention. I had to take two days off because I suddenly have a purebred Saint Bernard who is all of 8 weeks old (had been abandoned with the papers at my horse trainer's vet...). So I have a registerable Saint Bernard male, who is utterly, totally, completely adorable, to go along with the 10 cats, the Newfoundland, and the Beagle.

LOL. Rescuing has it's drawbacks. I will not have room on my bed at all for me...LOL. But he's totally adorable, and it looks like he was the "runt" (which is likely why he was abandoned). He's all about the snuggles and food right now...it's too cute.

So tomorrow, I'll be back in the garden...It needs some attention, too. LOL.

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Herding Cats

Oh wow a new puppy!! how fun! Lots of extra garden help.

I had told mom that she was welcome to join me, but I had no idea how long I would be in the Ventura area, if I hit a Friday Rush hour traffic I planned on sitting at the beach and watching the sunset rather than be stuck on the highway. And if there trees were tall, I would have to put the front seat down for extra tree space so she would have to ride in the back seat. But she was busy making beans at home and was happy to stay.

I got a Santa Barbara peach, it was a nice shape for the area I want it, but the second peach (Red Baron) I did not like the shape. But the lady at the counter (I am horrible with names-super nice lady too) called to the fields and they brought me up a "high head" tree and it is perfect! And a good thing I could put the seat down, because it barely fit. I took the SUV cause of the heat and lack of A/C in the truck. Good thing because the truck has a shell on it and no way could I have brought that tree home!

Munstead is on the smaller side...for now. But will have a prime spot so guessing that next spring it will be perfect.

I had to get a Gruss an Aachen, I got a lesson in how to correctly pronounce that name in good German!

After putting those two roses and two trees in the car, I realized could fit one more if I changed the back seat to fit a taller rose. So Belinda's Dream found a ride back to Santa Barbara too.

And I managed to miss the traffic until I was back in Santa Barbara.

Tomorrow, I will use the hose to start some holes. I dig a bit, put a few gallons of water in the hole and move on to the next hole. Next day, same thing, more water and in a few days I have some real nice holes that were pretty easy to dig.

Hi Herding,
The last we heard you had acquired a new puppy, but no news from you about your roses lately. Did you get them planted? Anymore gardening plans? Maybe the new doggie is temporarily displacing gardening--there are only so many hours in the day. I do hope you are feeling well and let us know what's happening in your garden. Diane

I'm sorry, Nanadoll, for not updating! Yes, Fintan is keeping me super busy...and I've had a headcold. Between the two, there's only been maintenance gardening done, nothing more. And I do need to have one more surgery, but that won't be until after the holidays.

And we've had some strange weather lately - close to 100* again, but later this week, there will be a high of 62*...and lows into the low 40s.

Before I finish up the rose planting in the front garden bed, I need to move the Queen Lizzy. The weather has been so weird lately that I've been hesitant to move her (in the 100* days...) but I'm hoping to move her tomorrow, in time for cooler weather and less stress.

Once she's been moved, I will be able to get the Gruss in the ground, as well as companion plants in there. Then all that's left is for things to fill out. St. Cecilia (a band) is doing really, really well, as is the Fragrant Plum; both of those will go into the front bed, but probably not for a few monts yet (although I may do it sooner...they're growing super well).

And my climbers - CPM, Shropshire, Portlandia, and Zeffy, are all doing really well in their pots. I still am concerned about Ginger Syllabub, but she's starting to show some new growth, so...we'll see.

And, the walkway is almost complete. The Midas Touch, which I moved from the front bed, did nothing in the 4 weeks it was there...and dropped a ton of leaves. So, I moved that into a 5 gallon bucket with water and B1, like I did with the Double Delight, and will see how that goes. Maybe, like with the Double Delight, it will regain it's footing...

In it's place, I've put a second Soft Whisper, which looks really healthy. I'm beginning to think that the area (this was the Double Delight's former spot, as well as the transplanted Midas Touch) is not getting enough water for some reason, so I am planning a switch from overhead autowaterer to a drip line. That might make the difference...we'll see.

And, again, my PJPII is in bud. It has, again, a tremendous amount of buds on it; it's soooooo very happy in it's tub and spot...just throwing it's buds out there. And the blooms are delicious, as always.

Other than that, I've cleared one area of hedges, and set out some hydrangeas in pots to see if they enjoy that spot. If they do well, I'll plant them in...and let them fill that area under the window with some color. That's also where the plumbago will go, and is where the magenta bougainvilla has established itself very well. I'm considering some rhododendrons there, as well...but am not sure if that's the right spot.

I think I am going to have to build some planters for the backyard roses...between the tree roots and the dead soils, I've been having a difficult time digging out a large enough area for the roses. So, I'll probably build a few elevated planters and let the roses live there. It will look quite nice, if I can do what my imagination says can be done...so that's all right. :)

In other words, while the body has been elsewhere, the mind still remains in the garden. And, as it cools off, I will finish up planting and getting things into the ground.

All in all, things are moving along...a tad slower, with the unexpected addition (and he is a cutie for sure and certain...10 weeks tomorrow!) and the weather being bizarre (even for us), but it looks like I'll be back in the garden in full force and effect again shortly.

YAY!

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Herding Cats

Sorry about needing the more surgery Cats. That has to be NO fun to deal with! Puppies are fun, even if they do keep you on your toes.

The heat this week has been horrible! So many things for me to finish up this week and NO desire to work in just under 100 degree temps.

Take care of your self! If nothing else hire a good gardener and supervise!

I have to go get some labs done tomorrow, and that will tell me a whole lot more about the timing of the surgery...we're hoping it can wait until January, and then I'd be able to have the holidays out of state with my family...I don't want to travel too soon after surgery, you know?

So the labs tomorrow will let me know what kind of time I've got before heading off to the OR. Sigh.

BUT! Finn is the dearest little puppy - he won't be little for long, but while he is, I'm holding him as much as I can. LOL. Such comfort in a cuddly puppy...and I've got the other dogs to love on, too. So I'm good.

As for the garden, I'm hoping that the cool-down which is predicted to start tomorrow actually will...there's a small chance of rain, too, on Thursday, which would be great to transplant in, you know?

So there will be some work done this week - I'm a tad behind...but that's all right. It'll work out.

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Herding Cats

crossing my fingers for you on the labs!

I am in a dither.

I can't decide where to transplant the Queen Elizabeth! I had originally planned on moving her to the backyard. Then, I figured I'd keep her as a back of the garden rose in the pink rose garden in front of the house.

Then, I thought about it, and her pink here, in my climate, is almost neon...very very bright. So it wouldn't quite fit in the bed colorwise...I've got Gruss, Betty White, St. Cecilia, Distant Drums, Zepherine Druhin, and maybe Fragrant Plum in that bed, all muted pinks/creams or mauves. So in my head, Queen Liz would be too sharp a contrast.

I don't know...I just don't know.

I also have to find homes for the Double Delight (which budded in a 5 gallon bucket of water; has been potted up and is doing really, really well...), A Shropshire Lad, Portlandia CL, and Ginger Syllabub.

I have a CPMargarita which has decided it wants to live, so the back fence will have a grouping of three CPMs, and both Teasing Georgias...CPM/TG/CPM/TG/CPM. Farther off from that grouping, I'll have an unnamed yellow, and, if the Midas Touch survives, I'll put him there too. And along the brick border which outlines the grass, I'll put the two Wildeves, a Blue Girl, and another unnamed rose.

I also have coming from Palatine two Lions Fairy Tale, and two "mini" Verandas (the yellow centered ones). So the brick line will look like: Lions/Wildeve/potted Veranda, and then potted Veranda/Wildeve/Lions. There is a break in the bricks (they fell over, and I never put them back up...and think I'll leave it now...it's a natural entrance to that area; I may add a mini gate, just because...), so the break will be flanked with the Verandas in pots.

I also have some blue berries back there, and a Moro Blood Orange Tree (dwarf).

So, I'm thinking that bright pink (Queen Liz) won't go back there, either.

Sigh.

The only place left would be at the chimney, but I was going to put one or two of the climbers (probably Portlandia, and Shropshire), as that's near the front rose garden.

Actually, there is one other place - by the kitchen door. But I am not sure I want her there, either.

Augh. See? I'm dithering.

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Hi Herding,
I'm so glad we heard from you, and I hope those lab tests have the right results so you can spend the holidays with your family and have some quality time with them before embarking on the next health hurdle.
Don't worry about dithering. Dithering is so normal among roseaholics. I may dither about buying a rose from a few months to a few years. Then the dithering begins about where to plant it in my small garden. And what would I do during the winter if I couldn't dither and be indecisive, going back and forth about the purchase of a single rose.
Anyway, I like what you have decided to do in front of the brick wall, with a mirror image of roses on either side of the opening. QE is more problematic. Could you group her in the back of the pink bed with two of the darkest of the other pink roses? Then have the lighter, most muted roses in front of the QE group? I need to look at your selections on HMF to refresh my memory about some of the colors. Sooo, I'll be back after that.
Diane

My QE is pretty poor, or I would offer you a second so you can have two of them. I will dig mine out one of these days too, but for now she can sit in her spot.

Hope you got some rain today, we got some mist this morning and lot of cold wind.

Nanadoll, I'm thinking that I might put Queen Liz at the corner of the window and the chimney, which is sort of "behind" the Zepherine. The problem is, that I wanted that spot for fragrance - it's a window that I keep open most all summer - unless it's too hot, of course - and wanted the fragrance to come in. I had thought about putting the Zeffy there in that spot, and putting the Queen Liz in the corner of the house (that area is like a backwards Z...there's a protrusion which has the windowseat that ends in a corner, then a space of wall/window to the chimney, then the chimney protrudes). So in the corner, I could put Zeffy, and the at the front corner (at the back edge of the pink garden) I coujld put Liz...but I wanted a climber there to climb up and over the windowseat roof, and provide a visual "height" or lift right there.

It might look nice to have the Fragrant Plum (which is a very dominant pink/magenta), then the Queen Liz, then the Zeffy...all in a line stretching backwards down the driveway from the corner to the chimney...that might work. They're all pretty bright, loud colors, and all in the hot pinks/fuschia/magenta range, so it might do well there. And that way, I'd get some fragrance...

I just don't know. There is one other spot...it gets decent sun, and it's along the driveway...and then there is a spot at the kitchen door (that area has a sort of triangle dirt area) between the kitchen door and the back gate. That's really the only other spot, unless I put her in the back yard.

But I want the back yard to be the way I've laid it out...I think it would look really neat with the DA's along the fence, and then the mirror image of the other three along the brick line...and if I add a small gate, it would be so cute and cottage-y. BTW, the bricks are lined with agapanthas, so there is contrasting blue during the summer, too. (I have to thin them out, though...they're quite overgrown and crowded). Add to the brick line some dahlias and ranunculus and lavender and sweet peas and sweet alyssum and periwinkle and maybe some hollyhocks in the back...that would be sooooo super sweet. Lay some pea gravel down for a walkway, or put down some pavers or something, and then it's like a little rose lined pathway.

I have a huge blank spot at the back of the property - poor sun for roses, I think, so I'm going to put in some other things...not sure what, just yet, but something else.

So there really isn't a place for the Queen Liz, so I may just put her in the kitchen garden. I was hoping to put some veggies in there (some raised beds...lettuce and spinach, and maybe some green onions), so she'd be accompanied with that sort of thing.

I've got to figure it out, though, because I'm waiting on planting everything until I know where she goes...it is holding me back...you know what I mean? LOL.

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Kippy, don't ask me why the Queen Liz has done as superbly as she has...I have no idea. LOL. Sorry to hear yours isn't quite as big as mine...it really is a nice rose. I cut 6 of them for a small bouquet today, and it's a sweet, bubblegum pink splash on my cream colored wall.

As for rain, yes, we've gotten some...and expect some more tonight, maybe tomorrow, and possibly on Saturday. I LOVE the rain - lit my first fire of the season, and had a hot chocolate (spiked with some hazelnut Kahlua, thankyouverymuch), and am enoying the coolness.

It's also a perfect time to transplant...sigh.

As for me, I postponed my labs to coincide with the ultra sound scheduled for tomorrow. So I'll spend the morning at the hospital getting poked and photographed, and then come home and play in the dirt (if I'm up to it)...and play with my dogs, who are all loving being inside with me (because of the rain).

I hope you get some rain too, Kippy...it's nice.

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Hi Herding,
Your evening sounded so cozy, and I'm hoping the tests went well.
We went from spring weather to snow in 24 hours. Of course snow for us (and rain) is measured in the hundredths of an inch with rare exceptions. If we ever get as much as half an inch of rain, it's like the floodgates have opened, and we don't know what to do--ha.
I definitely think you should have a good smeller outside the window you keep open. Which rose have you decided on for that spot? I also love the idea of the climber up and over the windowseat roof. That sounds so cottagey, too.
Maybe the QE should have a temporary home in the veggie garden, and when things start to gel next year, you may have a better idea of where her permanent home should be. Things are not written in stone, and gardeners are constantly moving things around--it's in our blood, sort of like dithering as a winter hobby. I plan to do a whole lot of moving around (of roses) this spring myself. If you just go ahead and plant QE, it will free up your thoughts to move on to the next planting ideas. Once things get rolling, you will be surprised how everything falls into to place, and locations you thought might not be the right one for a rose turn out to be just fine--a nice surprise.
Have another cozy evening. Diane

Everything seems to be going well for you so I hope that your health will follow right along and everything will be fine.

To answer the moving the old camellia question there are two possibilities

One is that the camellia was container planted and has no tap root. Then you should be able to prune back the foliage and dig up a big rootball when the plant is dormant and move it. I have heard of people pruning back, cutting the roots at the drip line and a month later, cutting the roots at the bottom after the cuts have healed from the first pruning of the roots. The whole root ball is wrapped up while the plant is laid over. I did this with a big DA rose once and it took all day.

The second possibility is that the camellia has its tap root intact. These camellias usually don't survive the moving process. The nursery usually pinches off the tap root so the plants can be container grown. A tap root is a good thing for a camellia to have because it allows it to go deep into the soil to search for water. Most plants are grafted today onto seedlings that had their tap roots pinched off. If you want to be sure, you can try grafting a piece of your camellia onto one you bought at the store just to keep a copy of yours alive while you try moving it. I have four seedlings that have the tap roots intact. The camellia nursery advised me to let it grow and if I don't like the flowers I get, to graft on and I will have all the advantages of a tap rooted plant. If you think rose bands grow slowly, try a camellia seedling....3 years later and no flowers yet!

Hi, Nanadoll.

No, the tests weren't good. Sigh. But I did have a second cozy evening, and am planning on a very nice, snuggly evening with my critters, a fire, and The Walking Dead television show. :)

I think you're right...since Queen Liz is what has me stalled, I'll find a temporary home (and yes, the kitchen garden will be that home), and then, once I've gotten everything else sorted out, I'll know where she goes.

I am thinking that I''ll put her into a big, big planter instead of the ground, so that the trauma of digging her up will be lessened...come a permanent home, I'll just tip her into it, without having to disturb the roots again. It will hopefully drop the transplant shock risks down...I think.

As for transplant shock, my Distant Drums, while putting out new growth and still blooming, have yellowing leaves (a lot of them) on their stems. I'm not sure why...I'm wondering if maybe there is too much water there, so I plan on adding a drip line water system, and improving the drainage a bit. But it also may just be transplant shock, too. I can't really tell.

Well, today is a big day at my house...I'm starting to get ready for the holidays, and since I'm expecting to need surgery again in the next two months, I'm going to start prepping for that - lots of cooking and then freezing, so there will be good, healthy meals waiting for me. And I'm behind in my Fall cleaning/winterizing my house (I know, we don't really have "winter" here...LOL), but things need to get done so that the three days of cold weather we do get, life will be good. LOLOL.

My puppy is continuing to bring tons of laughter and giggles in his 10 week old exploits...and he loves to cuddle. Along with my other critters, my life is blessed many millions of times, as I am constantly receiving love from them.

Would anyone like to see pix of my dogs? I have some, but didn't want to just post them here (it's a rose thread, after all...). And, hopefully in the next week or so, I will have photos of the house and gardens (incomplete), so that you all can give me a hand. No promises, though...

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I would love to see pictures of your puppies!

Sorry the test results were not better.

Yes, Kippy, me too. I had a mass on my thyroid which was 1.3cm in February. Due to other concerns (diagnosed with vulvar cancer April 20, surgeries 5/11 and 5/18), it was put on the back burner. It has, unfortunately, grown and now measures 2.5cm. Bloodwork shows a lot of things out of balance because of the thyroid instigating lots of hormonal things...and now I'm severely anemic. The Dr. wants labs done again on Tuesday, and possibly a transfusion to come on Thursday (it's fairly alarming when you bleed it's orangish red, not blood red. Sigh...but it does explain the exhaustion, lightheadedness/greying out, and the jitters, so it does.). Unfortunately, this means surgery. My hope and prayer at this point is that I can do it after Christmas, as I'm going to see my brother and family in another state. I'm hoping the surgeon agrees...

BUT! I did spend a decent amount of time in the garden today, and have decided to pot up the Queen Liz...in a very large tub. It will be temporary, but it will allow me to get the balance of the front bed handled, and then I can dither about where Lizzy will go without it being pressure. YAY. Tomorrow, that's the plan...

I'll be back in a moment or two with some photos of my canine family...and I think I've got one of my mighty steed, too. Let me poke around...

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[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012870.jpg[/IMG]

This is my Newfoundland dog Grace, or, as she is AKC registered, Chaotic Grace. She is 135ish pounds, and is just shy of her 2nd birthday. her head measures 27.5 inches around, and her "depth of chest" measures more than 22 inches (which means she's more than 42 inches around at her deepest part of her chest). She stands 27 inches at the shoulder, and is more than 4 feet long from her muzzle to the base of her tail (her tail is 1.5-2 foot long itself). She has webbed feet as do all Newfoundlands, and loves to swim. She is a big, big girl indeed.

She has started pulling a wagon, and will soon graduate to a dog sulky...and take me for rides.

She is as sweet, gentle, and snuggly as she looks.

[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012813.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012833.jpg[/IMG]
This is Romeo and he is 7 years old. He is a rescue, and has been "out" for just under 1 year. I say "out" because he was used as a medical experimental lab subject for 6 years, and was rescued by a non-profit beagle rescue group.

He has had a very hard life, but is a very happy, loving dog. He still has issues with open spaces, but loves to go on walks as long as he is with me or one specific friend. He will go on car rides, and has recently been spotted galavanting around at the dog park (instead of hiding beneath my feet). For what he's been through, he's pretty healthy; he does have some issues, but none prevent me from lovin' on him, and he will come over and ask for scritches and snuggles all the time. He has even gone up on the legs of relative strangers for ear touches. He is coming along. Some of his favorite things to do are chew sticks (as in the first photo), and taunt the world from under Grace (as in the second photo). He is a huge blessing to me, and is just as soulful and sweet as they come.

[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012893.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012947.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/Nonime_photo/november012012973.jpg[/IMG]

And the latest is my "little" Fintan Ruadh. He is 10 weeks old, a tri-color Saint Bernard, and he believes he's landed in Disneyland. He can snuggle with me, cuddle with Romeo, and then wrestle Grace. He was the runt of the litter (there were 11 pups in that litter...wowza), and is learning how to chew kibble, loves bones, has learned sit and lay down, and will do pretty much anything I ask as long as he understands it. He is learning what a leash is, and how to walk on one; it's a bit confusing, but he seems to be coming along with it. He sleeps in a kennel next to my bed, with Gracie laying guard at the door...she adores that little one...is, in fact, besotted with him (as you can see by the photo where he's laying on top of her).

Currently, he stands just under 14 inches tall at the shoulder, weighs in at 23 pounds (and is underweight), and is a bundle of curiosity, joy, and energy. He is going to be a big, big boy; his sire was 185ish, and his dam was 160ish, so he'll probably get to be about 175 or so. He will learn to swim, and to pull a cart, and to use his nose to "find" things...hopefully, he will become a volunteer SAR dog. If not, he will absolutely be a therapy dog (as Grace will be, once she graduates), and go on visits to schools, hospitals, and nursing homes.

If I've done this right, you will see my dogs' photos...and if I've done it wrong, I'll try again tomorrow.

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{{gwi:335314}}
This is my Newfoundland dog Grace, or, as she is AKC registered, Chaotic Grace. She is 135ish pounds, and is just shy of her 2nd birthday. her head measures 27.5 inches around, and her "depth of chest" measures more than 22 inches (which means she's more than 42 inches around at her deepest part of her chest). She stands 27 inches at the shoulder, and is more than 4 feet long from her muzzle to the base of her tail (her tail is 1.5-2 foot long itself). She has webbed feet as do all Newfoundlands, and loves to swim. She is a big, big girl indeed.

She has started pulling a wagon, and will soon graduate to a dog sulky...and take me for rides.

She is as sweet, gentle, and snuggly as she looks.

{{gwi:335315}}
{{gwi:335316}}
This is Romeo and he is 7 years old. He is a rescue, and has been "out" for just under 1 year. I say "out" because he was used as a medical experimental lab subject for 6 years, and was rescued by a non-profit beagle rescue group.

He has had a very hard life, but is a very happy, loving dog. He still has issues with open spaces, but loves to go on walks as long as he is with me or one specific friend. He will go on car rides, and has recently been spotted galavanting around at the dog park (instead of hiding beneath my feet). For what he's been through, he's pretty healthy; he does have some issues, but none prevent me from lovin' on him, and he will come over and ask for scritches and snuggles all the time. He has even gone up on the legs of relative strangers for ear touches. He is coming along. Some of his favorite things to do are chew sticks (as in the first photo), and taunt the world from under Grace (as in the second photo). He is a huge blessing to me, and is just as soulful and sweet as they come.

{{gwi:335317}}
{{gwi:335318}}
{{gwi:335319}}
And the latest is my "little" Fintan Ruadh. He is 10 weeks old, a tri-color Saint Bernard, and he believes he's landed in Disneyland. He can snuggle with me, cuddle with Romeo, and then wrestle Grace. He was the runt of the litter (there were 11 pups in that litter...wowza), and is learning how to chew kibble, loves bones, has learned sit and lay down, and will do pretty much anything I ask as long as he understands it. He is learning what a leash is, and how to walk on one; it's a bit confusing, but he seems to be coming along with it. He sleeps in a kennel next to my bed, with Gracie laying guard at the door...she adores that little one...is, in fact, besotted with him (as you can see by the photo where he's laying on top of her).

Currently, he stands just under 14 inches tall at the shoulder, weighs in at 23 pounds (and is underweight), and is a bundle of curiosity, joy, and energy. He is going to be a big, big boy; his sire was 185ish, and his dam was 160ish, so he'll probably get to be about 175 or so. He will learn to swim, and to pull a cart, and to use his nose to "find" things...hopefully, he will become a volunteer SAR dog. If not, he will absolutely be a therapy dog (as Grace will be, once she graduates), and go on visits to schools, hospitals, and nursing homes.

I hope this works...

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Hi Herding,
Your dog kids are adorable--love that tongue on Grace, and Fintan is just so cute. Love the pic of Romeo and Grace. It's good he has a big sis to protect him. They will help get you through all the health issues, I know. It would be cool if Grace could grip a shovel (sorry). Just think of all the holes she could help you with. By the way, where are the cats you herd? Being a cat person, I'm interested in them, too.
Given your anemia and thyroid problems, I can understand if progress on planting slows. Wish I could be there to dig a few holes, or at least email a virtual casserole. Still, it will be good for you to get outside and forge ahead as much as possible. Being in the garden is the best therapy for my soul, and I always feel better with a dose of fresh air.
If you ever have a little (actually a little more than a little) extra space for a rose that smells heavenly, think about getting Frederic Mistral. It would be a great rose for under an open window. Its blooms are beautiful and they last a long time in a vase. I love them scenting my bedroom. Yum.
Take care, and all my wishes for a better round of tests the next time (and a great Thanksgiving with family).
Diane

I love your babies!

Grace looks so gentle with the puppy too and wonderful you could save Romeo.

Thyroid issues sure can tire a person out and yours sounds like it is working hard to do just that. Hope they get it right for you.

And where are the herds of cats?

I just managed to get the card reader to work, and I will get crackin' on the herd of cats. I told you there was 10, didn't I? LOL, all rescues, all from the streets.

Yes, Diane, they have been a wonderful source of love and comfort, and I rely on them for that. The dogs and the cats.

And yes, Kippy, the thyroid does tire me right out. Or makes me dizzy and "fluttery". I'll be speaking with the surgeons and Drs. sometime this week; I think the plan is a thyroidectomy, but I'm not sure. I'll know soon enough.

In the meantime, I get out to the garden as much as I can, and there is a sale at the garden store tomorrow, so I'll go get more pavers, mulch and compost...if you look at the photo of Romi and Grace together, you will see a corner of the backyard, before I did anything to it except clear some branches. You can see what I've been calling the "Dead Zone", just behind the bricks and the agapantha.

I'll post more "before" photos, so you all can see the terraforming I'm doing.

Diane, Grace, Romi, and now Fintan are helping me garden, even though they don't use shovels. They are, you see, digging. LOL. If only I could get them to dig in the right places, all my troubles will be solved. ;)

G'night, all...

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Nanadoll, I think F. Mistral is on the "gotta get" list. How I missed it when looking for pinks, romanticas and hts, I'll never know. It actually would go very well in the pink garden...and, as it would be near the front windows (which are open a lot during the summer) the scent would come in nicely.

Thanks. I think. I mean...really? Another gotta get rose? Sigh.

LOL.

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Hi Herding,
I feel badly that you will have to dig another hole, but FM is a really nice rose.
Hope today is a good one.
Diane

I have been following your story with great enjoyment. MY best friend had thyroid cancer surgery with Radiation treatment 2 years ago. She was pretty weak and sick for the first month but by the end of the winter she was so much better then she had been in years! I am hoping you will find that too. Plan to take it easy for a while after surgery. The body takes time to sort itself out. Changing what is happening with thyroid throws the whole body for a loop, but once it is healed, you will have so much more CALM energy that you can recover the time when it feels like your garden was neglected. Just be prepared to sit back and enjoy being in the garden without working on projects! THat is your task...to be IN your garden but not in charge for a while and let it tell you things about itself. Sit and listen.

May your surgery go well, and the healing be a time of peace. I will be thinking about you.

Lizalily, thanks for that...I love hearing good stories. We are not sure about radiation/I-131 treatments yet, just that surgery is what is the most likely first step. Yes, the thyroid controls so much of what happens in our bodies that when it's off, everything goes batty...

I am looking forward to CALM energy, as you said...not this fluttery anxiety-fueled energy that I've had for a while. And yes, it will be the hard part - to sit on my swing and relax in the garden instead of working on it...that will be the hard part. Sitting and listening.

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I appreciate it a lot. More, perhaps, than you'd know.

Nanadoll, it's not a hole that bothers me...rather, it's a good location for a new rose. I'm struggling to figure out where all the roses go now, let alone a new one. LOL. FM does indeed sound like a gorgeous, fragrant, perfect-under-window rose, though...so I may just have to figure it out.

Tomorrow is another day, as Scarlet O Hara would say...I'll be getting some things done in the garden tomorrow; now that I know I'll be putting Q. Liz in a big tub until I know where her final home will be, I'll hopefully be getting that whole area handled tomorrow...Queen Liz out and replanted, and then both Gruss An Aachens into the ground. To be able to get that done would make me happy indeed...because then that front bed would be mostly complete.

BTW, does anyone know when it's a good time to put bands into the ground? I've got two that I want to get into the ground, but they're still sort of small...both, however, have bloomed for me (a Fragrant Plum and St. Cecilia), so they're doing all right so far.

But I don't know when I should put them into the ground...what height or age, or whatever. If anyone could give me that info, I'd greatly appreciate it!

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Cats

Did you notice the Weeks roses tag on the Belinda's Dream? It says it is on its own root. Never occurred to me that they might do own roots on some roses.

Kippy, I didn't get a Belinda...but yes, it never occurred to me that Otto would do own root. Big, happy healthy bush though, right?

Or did you mean Weeks does own root?

Sorry, I'm a tad muddled right now. I had a fine needle biopsy on my thyroid done this afternoon, and there was ativan and vicodin involved. Still utterly freaked me out, but in a mellow, calm sort of way. LOL.

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Kippy, I didn't get a Belinda...but yes, it never occurred to me that Otto would do own root. Big, happy healthy bush though, right?

Or did you mean Weeks does own root?

Sorry, I'm a tad muddled right now. I had a fine needle biopsy on my thyroid done this afternoon, and there was ativan and vicodin involved. Still utterly freaked me out, but in a mellow, calm sort of way. LOL.

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LOL Cats, turns out even on meds your more with it than me!

I thought you had gotten a Belinda from Ottos, I had picked up a couple and for what ever reason I was thinking you had gotten Belinda-turns out it was Gruss an Aachen we both got.

I left the tag on mine was adding some drippers (just in time for rain)and noticed the Weeks Ownroot tag. Just looked at their on-line catalog and Weeks has several ownroots. The Fairy is listed as own root at Weeks

LOLing at you...no, Kippy...not if you realize I posted the same thing twice. ROFL. Oh well.

Yes, I have two Gruss An Aachens, and they are delightful. I haven't planted my two Fairys, so haven't looked at the tag, but they strike me as own root, the way they've grown so far. So now I'll look. LOL.

And yes, I fixed a drip line today, just in time for the rain here, as well. And if I have a chance, the Q. Lizzy has just finished blooming, and I will prune her down a ways, and get her potted up.

and then I can get the Gruss An Aachens into the ground...

And I got a HUGE compliment from my across the street neighbor. She and I have a good friendship going, and she came over the other day to look at my roses. She thinks I'm brilliant at gardening (I'm absolutely not...LOL), and she wants me to come over in January and teach her to prune.

Of course, I told her I would...but still, it's funny she thinks I know what I'm doing.

I will have to look at Otto and Sons, and Weeks, and see what I can see about own root...

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