If you live in a zone warm enough to grow tea roses, try the old tea rose Anna Olivier. (1872). It has really elegant buds and blooms. Color is variable - standard is buff with pale pink, with brick pink reverse on the petals. Depending on the weather, can also be solid pale pink or pale yellow. Blooms 10 months of the year here on the West Coast. Healthy (I never spray anything). Grows happily in partial shade.

According to Vintage Gardens, the correct version of this rose was not in commerce in North America until about 5 years ago, when Vintage got cutting of the correct one from my garden! The imposter which was in commerce was always a solid pale yellow (old sport?). Now Vintage is offering it.

What happened was, I took it as a mystery rose from my old garden to a HRF meeting, and the Tea rose ladies from Australia identified it for me as Anna Oliver. Vintage grew it, and after the first Spring agreed with them, and did research and realized it was not in commerce in No Am., although they still had the correct version in Australia.

HMF says it gets 3-4 feet tall, but they must have gotten that from an English rose book or something - one of mine is 9-10 feet tall, and the other one (the ancient original one) is 7 feet tall, and easily 9-10 feet across, growing under several trees & large bushes.

It is lightly scented with typical tea rose scent. I love it - everyone who comes to our garden remarks on it and how beautiful it is.

Jackie

I'm so grateful for the vendors who sell these wonderful treasures. These antique roses have filled my garden with fragrance and charm.

It's hard to pick a favorite rose... these roses are some of the most reliable for me.

Marchesa Boccella has great fragrance, one of the best I've ever found. The powder puff blooms are fun to see in the garden.

{{gwi:307925}}

{{gwi:307923}}

{{gwi:232402}}

{{gwi:217919}}

La Reine is a Hybrid Perpetual. It produces large blooms, with lovely fragrance.

{{gwi:228889}}

{{gwi:328191}}

Stanwell Perpetual has a strong, sweet scent, and produces small blooms in clusters.

{{gwi:220399}}

{{gwi:322156}}

{{gwi:322155}}

Not to interupt your antique rose idea serenasyh I just wanted to post the oldest rose in my gardens as single close up from spring which I used to find it's registerd name. Also seen on a differnt thread it isn't a true antique by standards but was semi popular in this area fifty years ago and I finaly found it's name.

Golden Showers: Climber

{{gwi:335965}}

With a honey-like fragrance and great for cutting how could I resist

I forgot to add a lil fun fact on prior post:

The rose is only twice directly mentioned in the Bible. One reference will be found in the Song of Solomon: "I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys"; while the second is in Isiah, where we read that when the kingdom of righteousness shall be established on earth, the desert shall rejoice and blossom as a rose.

I just got a group of roses from Vintage...a couple are blooming and are lovely. Charlotte Brownell is really gorgeous, great big bloom on a small but healthy band. Tourmaline is just opening up....pretty! And Blush Queen Elizabeth is a pale pink. Others opening are Eminence and St. Helena Centenary. Dr. Brownell just finished showing me a lovely bloom also.
Judith

Thanks so much Krista for these absolutely beautiful, GORGEOUS blooms! I just love how Marchesa has that swirling sachet of petals. La Reine's color is very deep and draws the eye, and Stanwell Perpetual is absolutely delightful-it has that open-shaped flow that a gardenia or Southern Garden has! What a beautiful inspiration your roses are, Krista!color> Thank you so much for sharing them, what a privilege and honor to have them here!!!!

Jacqueline and Alameda, you must be sure to post photos of your beauties. Photos paint a thousand words and help people remember the rose. Usually, antique roses have very complex names with unusual spellings. It would help tremendously if you can add photos. Studies show that it's very difficult to remember names unless some sort of visuals are included to draw people in. Those antique names are very rarely heard so if people have the images, they can really be wowed and can remember what those roses are.

I am enclosing another link (just in case) about how to post photos. For those who need that info, just scroll to the bottom of the page of that thread and there will be all the instructions.

how to post photos online (instructions at the end of the thread)

Jacqueline, bless! You just saved a rose, your Anna Olivier, and brought it to Vintage Gardens so that they would propagate the rare and correct version. The wonderful story about Anna Olivier proves that without our help these rare roses will die out. If it hadn't been for your cutting, no such rose would exist in the U.S. and Canada. Besides its wonderful rescue story, many forumers would also be interested in your Anna Olivier because it has yellow in it which is pretty difficult to find out of the antiques. Please be sure to post your lovely Anna Olivier.

Alameda, I would love to see Eminence, St. Helena Centenary and Tourmaline!

Keep those photos flowing! Whether current or nostalgic past photos, we would love to have them here.

Wes, you are such a fun person! And yes, your Golden Showers is welcome here.

And to your lovely Bible passage I would like to add one of my favorites as well from Isaiah 35.1:

The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the roes. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing...

In celebration of old, rare and antique roses I am taking a plunge on a third and final site prep for 2010 planting.
As soon as some of you guys stop giving me ideas I can hopefully get my arms to rest a bit (don't let me fool you these are problems I like having) The site is to hold four (during 2010) to six if room is left for 2011. There all to be historically significant and famed roses.
Two such roses are believed to be the roses on the shields from the "THE WAR OF THE ROSES"
** Thank you very much Connie (from Hartwood Roses)for your feed back on names. The dates fit and every source I found back the two up as very very possible and there where several not just one or two checked

My third and hopeful pick comes from serenasyh I agree that he was greatly understated by a single Mr. Lincoln Red
I hope my forth choice will help him in the back side of this oversized ground level bed
My forth choice is a bit more difficult, but I know it can be named at least. Ill take every effort to find it for those who may not know where to get it. I can't post a picture of where this rose is as it is under copyrights, but I can describe this rose at it's very best. It is seen in a painting named "Marie Antoinette à la Rose",
I am asking for the name of the rose she is holding for the forth pick to be placed some where in the " The History of Roses Garden" hopefully in the back
The remaining two will have to wait until 2011 where I will be going even further back in history and may have to consider size

What a great idea serenasyh I will be very happy to celebrate.

The Antique Rose Forum here is pretty much about celebrating rare and hard to find old roses. And for those who really want to keep the rare old roses in circulation, take a look at Vintage Gardens newest offerings--and buy them. VG is the largest inventory of antique roses and we need to support them. The old rose nurseries have a tough time (Ashdown just went out of the retail business). Every year VG offers different rare roses; it is up to us to keep them in existence by planting them in our gardens.

Some of us don't have unlimited internet connectivity.
When you put ten to fifteen photos in the text, those photos must download.
At a certain point, people stop visiting threads that they can't get to open.
This has happened time and time again and the opulent use of photos is why we have the galleries.
Why not put the photos on the gallery and put a link to the gallery thread?
That way folks with landlines can still enjoy the content and can see the photos when they have the computer capabilities of opeing them.

#1:

Because those same people will likewise be unable to see the gallery as well. Their computer will likewise lock-down. At our beloved gallery those threads contain those 10-15 photos. Also at our beloved regular gallery there's only a handful of us and most of us grow just the standard easily obtained roses and we post gobs of photos there.

#2:
Also very, very soon landlines will be completely! obsolete. They are obsolete within the entire Kansas City region because high-speed internet is embedded as a package deal even telephone companies like AT&T don't carry anything except for high speed/broadband width. Technology makes everything else bite the dust. Look at TVs, the U.S. is eliminating all antennae TVs. Soon the same thing will happen to those landlines.

#3:
Most people do not have some web design background like myself. I am able to post links so that a separate window tab opens up without losing the thread. With links you have to constantly back-track which really breaks up/interrupts the flow of the thread.

#4:
Most people have very little interest in the rare antique roses until they have the chance to see them at a regular rose forum. They keep getting sidetracked by the beautiful photos from their standard commercialized catalog vendors like Jackson & Perkins. You name it. It's very! sad when rare roses keep getting eliminated from U.S. and Canada. Already we've had 2 wonderful vendors this year who specialized in rare roses "go under". I want to do as much as I can to have those roses/vendors supported. Many links also don't have the special identifiers that we need here. I am just trying to cut to the chase.

O.K.! photos, links whatever. Something is better than nothing. Hope everyone posts their links, photos whatever they feel most comfortable with. Me, I'm taking so much joy with Krista's gorgeous photos, and Wes's "heart and warmth" is very much appreciated!

Sometimes photos can paint a thousand words. Here is my personal story about a gorgeous beautiful rose that has been completely eliminated from the U.S. and Canadian markets. It used to be offered by Hortico and Pickering but no longer! One of my very close and dear rosey friend Karen (from Australia) sent me a photo long ago. And she told me I could use this photo whenever I felt like it. This rose was very important to me because it is famous for being a bee-pasture rose and is specifically used for that purpose-used for bees and honeymaking. I owe many thanks to for another very special forumer-Jim regarding this rose.

Here is Karen's beautiful Heidesommer rose:

Ann, I am also taking your suggestion and posting my favorite links to this rose in closeup view...These photos are from other non-forum people hence the link idea is the most appropriate format. It's from terra-pflanzenhan in Denmark, hope this gives enough credits there.
{{gwi:335960}}

Sorry to burst your cyberbubble, but landlines are forced on many folks who can't afford satellite and don't have a DSL option. In my state, only the cities have multiple choices.
ATT is promising my area DSL maybe in the next decade. (Although they got it to the Representative across the river three years ago.)
Folks out in the country, have room to grow gardens and roses.

Catsrose, I really agree! I was absolutely horrified when Paul Zimmerman's roses got taken off of online orders and now can only afford to sell to retail vendors. At the time I was too new to antiques with tons of ignorance and not being sure whether I liked the look of the antiques or which could survive in my garden, just being uncertain but starting to get curious. When a vendor like Paul is forced to sell just to retail, most retailers refuse to buy antique roses because no one wants to get them because of the fear that no one will buy an unknown rose-they are geared toward profit-making and will only sell popular roses. That's why it's so important to get those links and images up for us city folk (with our cushy DSL and money to throw around) who have no idea about these roses so that we can support special people like Hartwood Roses and Vintage Gardens.

Catsrose had it not been for wonderful Krista who so patiently and constantly explains all these wonderful details on her garden with me, I'd be really stuck! I wouldn't know where to begin. At the Antiques forum for example all the roses get all mixed up, common roses mixed in with the rare-and-very-difficult to find. If people don't see photos they will forget. When I visited the Antiques Forum I got soooo confused. So many names, no photos at the time, people mentioning roses that I had great difficulty remembering and telling apart because they had no photos to go with the names. I have been very lucky to have friends like Krista and Karen.

Ann I hope you'll be able to share your links too here! We'd love to see your special garden with the special rare roses.

Serena, photos of the antique/old garden roses are not difficult to find.

First, there is a whole photo gallery just associated with the Antique Roses forum, Antique Roses Forum Photo Gallery. If you look just before the start of message threads, you'll see "On-Topic Discussions [Switch to: Gallery]", and click on the link for "Gallery". And there are also photos posted to the regular Roses Gallery. The gallery forums were created for posting long threads with photos. Our forum friends without high-speed (broadband) internet connections (and there are a lot, since DSL/cable internet/WiFi coverage is still extremely spotty and/or very expensive once you move outside of major metropolitan areas) know that when they click on posts in the gallery, they may be in for a long wait.

And, there is helpmefind.com/roses, where you can search for a lot of the plants discussed in the Antique Roses forum.

Also, you can save posts or responses to posts. Look to the right of any post, you'll see "Clippings". You can "clip" a response to a post and save up to 50 of them for future reference.

Diane, LOL! you should see all my clippings, oh, my goodness. I've already overrun my maximum limit. Diane I actually need to write to the facilitators of GW. They seem to be very nice and actually address certain problems. For example when there was a freeze on the ability to upload photos into the rose organics forum, all one had to do was mention it and the problem got resolved. What is so confusing about the antiques forum is that the gallery is hidden away. That Switch To feature hides the gallery from most users. I grow orchids and the orchid gallery is labeled right beside the regular orchid forum. In other words all the galleries are labeled right next to the forums links, the Antiques Gallery is the only gallery to have their gallery inside the Switch to area . Most folks wouldn't think of accessing that Switch To feature. I certainly didn't even see that until you and Krista pointed it out to me. I wasted an entire month because I didn't notice the fine print embedded in that Switch To.

However GW may still not be able to help, depending on how they built and constructed their website. If you try to reorganize a section of a website, that process can be a major pain-in-the-behind. It all depends on how that website is organized. Links can be easily broken so whether they can make that feature appear side by side to the antiques forum is up to question.

With Help Me Find if you are not a subscribing member it is a total nightmare! to find roses. Only one search criteria is allowed and that means sifting through 200 roses often times. Thank goodness for rosey antique friends like Krista or else I'd be crippled from carpal tunnel syndrome, LOL!

Well, hopefully with this thread others will now know where to look, but alas every month brings new people to the forum but once this thread dies out from the lack of photos, I do hope everyone at the antiques gallery can visit our regular rose gallery from time to time to showcase their rare beauties so that the rare roses won't be forgotten. Again, most newbies except for wonderful Jim1961 and Harold(PhatboyRose) do not visit the Rose Gallery. I never did until JeffAurora told me about it way back in April 2009 and I've been a regular gallery gal ever since, LOL!

Antique Roses are very dear to those that appreciate such things. Because of some rather heated debates between the OGR people and the Hybrid Tea/Modern rose people in the past (that ate up way too much space on this general "rose" forum), the OGR people were given their own special place to rock and roll. You certainly can mention OGR's here on occasion, as I'm sure the mention of an exhibition Hybrid Tea is most welcome on the Antique Rose forum, but if people are really interested in "grandma's rare found roses" their best bet would be over at that forum, not here. Also, Ann is correct about there being a gallery to post your pictures. Again the division was made so that the general rose forum could concentrate on questions and comments, and not be moved along at a rapid pace by people posting their flower albums. A few pictures posted to the thread on this forum as an example of the topic is of course fine. The Daylily forum is a perfect example of ignoring the rule of using the gallery for pictures. A question is asked and within a day or two the question may be on page 13 or somewhere else in cyber space because everyone just had to post their pictures of their latest blooms. Usually the rules on these forums are a matter of courtesy to others and make good sense if you just know the history or logic behind them.

I have no problems with space and speed and I grow all kinds of roses, rare and common, old and new. But I have an irreverent objection to all these rose porn pictures of close-ups of individual blooms. They say very little about a rose, anybody can get lucky and shoot a perfect picture of a perfect bloom but what does the plant look like in the garden setting? If I want to see individual flowers I go to the vendor's site or to HMF, preferably to the latter as there may be more pictures there, taken in different light conditions and with different cameras. There are many other sources out there, rose picture data bases from many countries, moss roses and rugosas from Japan, spinosissimas and Geschwind roses from Finland, gallicas from Cour de Commer in France, or rosenfoto.de from Germany, and several others from around the world.

Marianne in Sweden

I call the coin toss to be heads. There are a few of us who really don't understand the "slightly over my head talking" in the antique forums. Yes it is my fault as I am the one that ran to the new HT"S, but I didn't forget my past either on this fast paced dealings. I just think it's a wonderful idea for some of us to at least concider and post things from the past to collect idea and such so we can sound a bit more educated when we come to the Antiques Forum. I do have to learn some things including how to respect any plant I choose to grow. I find it fitting for me to get basic ideas and feed back in a general rose forum in regards to antiques, rares and hard to find roses. So I feel more in line when entering in the Antique Forum I know you have a different lingo there I read it and semi understand it to some degree( I don't plan on embarrassing myself when I enter there ) I from time to time bring up organic growing of roses in the general rose forum with hopes to spark there interest to one day and hopefully join us there too and I insist on them being very comfortable in asking any and all questions and tend to respond with a helpful and direct responce . For now and here we are just merely celebrating them oldies and goodies which will one day bring me there so let the party continue the worst thing that can happen is I might just learn something new from the past .

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

William Shakespeare (As read in Romeo and Juliet)

Mind if I ask what year or years was a rose named for this great man ???

Looks like it landed on heads for all of us AKA a win win

Well, I still say that gallery photos and every photo posted is a treasure in my eyes. I don't care if it's a single bloom, clusters of bloom whatever. Each rose photo is appreciated no matter where I go. I am only concerned in that most people don't even know about the "ancient roses" that's all. And also remember, HMF is very unfriendly to unsubscribed users, you can only select one search criteria at a time. Bless Connie Hartwood and especially Krista, Rosemeadow for trying to help out, but even in Connie's site, going through the entire list can cause tons of Carpal Tunnel syndrome, lol! Most people would never even attempt to go through such multiple lists.

And celebrating means enjoying everyone's links should they so wish to share. If they don't they don't. They don't need to visit the link. I see nothing wrong with posting links for regular rose people. I also agree with Wes, for newbies trying to understand names it's a very daunting, almost alienating task. Very, very tough for us to go through! The names are endless, trying to figure out the differences between bourbons, musks, hybrid perpetuals, not having easy separators between photos is very confusing for us.We don't know which are the rare roses and which are the commonplace antiques. Communication and sharing is the beauty of how-to-discover.

Most newbies just throw up their hands and give up. Hence the reason why I originally posted this thread. My feeling is that so long as antique rose growers have this more isolationist view of, go look and find for yourself, the harder it is for newcomers to discover these roses IMHO. The names, growth habits fluctuate wildly unlike hybrid teas and the Austins. And it is an exhausting search. I am very surprised that no one has yet shared their favorite links. Hmmmmmmmm.....

Oh, my! Please do not disrespect HMF or Connie.

I rely upon HMF, and have tremendous respect for those who run it and contribute to it.

Connie has been a major contributor to our Forums and I am also very fond of her.

Honestly, I don't want to even try to deal with the rest of your post.

Sammy

Most newbies just throw up their hands and give up.
Not true. Otherwise, we would not be the busiest forum on GardenWeb. With a lot of new folks joining every week. Don't speak for "most newbies". Speak for yourself, if need be, and let anyone else who might be frustrated express themselves, and allow us to help them.

I don't know where you get this idea that antique rose growers have this more isolationist view. "Most" antique rose growers that I know are the kindest, most giving and knowledgeable folks. Maybe a bit gruff, not everyone is touchy, feely. But, they know their roses, and will give you the straight scoop. And, maybe not everyone knows everything about a rose, and you have to be the one who blazes the trail, does the research on their own, grows the rose and becomes the one with the real info.

Sheesh, I can't believe I'm sucked into responding again... I'm out.

"Oh, my!" is right.

Hartwood Roses has a wonderful, easy to navigate website. The roses listed in the "Display Garden" section each have a link to HelpMeFind. I cannot imagine that "most people would never attempt it". That is insulting.

HelpMeFind only costs $24 for goodness sakes. One can find books about antique roses at the library for free! Check ebay as well. The Vintage Gardens website is wonderful, as is the catalog. It does cost $15, but is 360 pages long, packed with information. The least you can do is read the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) link at the top of the Antique Rose Forum.

The folks on the Antique Rose Forum have always been very helpful to me. I don't understand all these negative threads criticizing certain roses, nurseries, forum members.

Good Grief!
Maureen

Although not an antique Halloween is rare and beautiful.
It's my wife's birthday so a must have.
{{gwi:220981}}

Sammy, Connie's site is wonderful! If it hadn't been for her HMF links I would be up heck creek!!! I would not be able to find the roses! Which proves my point that if she hadn't so carefully listed those links I wouldn't have been able to find them myself!!! Her HMF links allow me to look up the individual sections instead of going through HMF all alone and all by myself! I owe tons to Connie and Krista and Rosemeadow as I keep saying. You are misunderstanding me! I took the links I was interested in and asked her about those individual roses. But the list is long whether I go through Connie, Vintage, whoever the rose vendors are, there's so much to go through and to try to understand.

My sincerest apology to all:
I don't think any of us meant for a celebration to become such a challenge or misunderstood words of dismay. I will take but a moment to repeat what I already said in this thread please bare with me.

1 Thank you for your supportive and well confirmed response of two very old roses Connie of Hartwood Roses.** This very good response does not give me the right to continuously annoy her I will continue to respect her just a bit more than that. It does however allow me to think maybe just maybe I can ask others for some additional information. Perhaps I can thank them later too. I do want to and I certainly will.
2 I asked any and all of you this question. What is the name of the rose as it is seen in a painting named "Marie Antoinette à la Rose" it's in her hands. Honestly I don't know and I have looked at alot of information but nothing I looked at reveals a close or accurate name (I already knew none of you would bite on the William Shakespeare one hmmmm it's a celebration guys geesh cant a guy have fun )
I never intended to annoy any or all of you. With just a single question, with this in mind I will not apologize for asking any question on any forum being it the right forum or not. Simply put I know one of you is bound to lead the way, don't be afraid!! Take me there

** don't be afraid only means I'm not

I am calling heads again just keep flipping it until heads comes up

That's such a cutie rose and nice pic it looks very healthy and well cared for chuck thank you
Be the good day ;)

Personaly I think it might be best that next time you just call it a garden party lol

" My feeling is that so long as antique rose growers have this more isolationist view of, go look and find for yourself"....Oh my dear, how old are you? People have searched and discovered all sorts of things long before the advent of computers including plants, continents, planets and animal species to name just a few. From my experience OGR people are anything but isolationists, but even if the antique rose forum was, people always have the option of self improvement by reading a book. That's what I did in old days of the 1980's. I read books about roses. They are still available you know. And again, if people want to post their pictures for YOU to enjoy and not tie up this forum with their snapshots, please mind the rules of courtesy for the rest of us on this general rose forum. This forum is for questions and comments not for posting pictures.

Maryl our generation has always been the computer. All our exhaustive research from the computer. That is why I'm so grateful to Connie's site! she puts up the HMF links, the dates of the roses of when they were bred, the colors, in that wonderful site of hers. That site allows me to springboard on other roses to get the information through Google. Likewise Krista has targeted at least 4 roses that I will be so excited to get and hers come from real-life roses and stories of how they do in her garden. But regardless there is no excuse for my stupidity in completely ruining this thread.

What I do need to apologize to is to Krista, Connie, Wes, Chuck Billie and the antiques people. It is because of my stupidity and lack of wisdom in choosing my words that this thread is doing the direct opposite of what it intended, and that is to celebrate rare-and-hard-to-find-roses.No I can't visit the antiques forum anymore because I have angered too many people with my stupidity. Neither do I deserve any help from them either. Wes, you are fantastic. Had you done this thread we would not have the nightmare this thread has become, NO THANKS TO ME. I am disgusted and frustrated with my stupidity. As my friend Boxofrox says we have Typingis in which words are quickly typed and people hone in only sections and parts and then what we have is an entire embroilment of emotions and misunderstandings. It is a very sad time for me because Krista, Chuck Billie and Wes have sent such beautiful photos for everyone to enjoy. Chuck Billie, the coloration of your rose is like a lovely sunset and a perfect celebration of your wife. It is a jewel to remind that a rose brings beauty and memories. It reminds me too of my friend Boxofrox and his lovely roses for his mother, Grandmother and memory garden.

Wes, for Kings and queens and historical figures, here are the links. These are supposed to be repeat bloomers.

Rose du Roi à Fleurs Pourpres (this translates as King's Purple Crimson Rose)

{{gwi:335962}}

{{gwi:335964}}

Wes, you will actually need to find a rose that was bred before 1783 when the painting was made (Marie Antoinette a la Rose). From my internet research, it could be the lovely Blush Damask which is a once-bloomer because it was bred in 1759 and it has that same delicate pink. However, my concern is that it doesn't have quite that cupped shape that we need. There are so few roses before 1783 and this was all I could find so far.

the rose in the painting possibility

Intentionly forgotten on my last feed back to this thread Fun Fact:Did you know that most antique and old roses are directly related to war. The common folks and great knights would fight, starve, and kill all for in the name of there great king or his queen. It should come as no surpirse that history also repeats it's self perhaps in differnt degrees
There are only three choises in war
1 Lead
2 Follow
3 Get out of the way
They sure do make alot of noise if they pick number 3

If a war for roses looks and sounds ugly you should see what happens if it where an onion and the onion is not even as pretty

Thats my fun fact thank you and ment mostly for serenasyh
for all others

photo tip:

Practice on a bummble bee and if you can count all of it's tiny hairs you know your getting realy realy good ;)

Serenasyh please go back to the Antiques Forum for goodness sake. You are far too sensitive. If you love antique roses you will be missing alot. Folks are really not that intimadating. You didn't say anything that was too terrible and everyone will forget about it anyway in a day or two.

My dear old gradma would sometimes say to me "If your still upset in the morning it would be best to not bring it back to bed on the new night If you do that I'll share with you a secret."

One such secret was. I can catch more bees with honey than I can with vinegar Thank you for reminding me of this Connie

Another one was : Pick your friends and choose your enemies.
Thank you new friend whos been in my email box for the past two days :)

I wont just sit and let you fall. What that means is for some is look out. I was told I could choose my enemies and some of you arenot my choise so if you are on this list I suggest you just close this thread and move on concider yourself a weed. Thats right weeds can also type for those who try to attract bees with honey these typing weeds use words like: that wont work here do it there don't do this do that there yaddah yadah yaddah yuck If I listened to them only Id be growing nothing

I do agree it is a very noble attempt in demading respect from one but I wont bow to you not one bit not to worry I wont even hear you toot your own lil horn on your way out but in the future at least try to get off that stick

Amognts your bashing and slander mr and mrs vinagar holders I was able to get 33 old rare,antique and hard to find roses seller sites an exact macth of a single painted rose
more detailed growing characteristics of a number of roses than I care to even mention ALL right here on this off beaten wrong place to do it bad idea wont work thread. which is far more than I could of ever found on the right forum here I'll toot your horn for you Toot TOOT gee wasnt that fun.

For those who wish to come by and bash your 100% right don't waste your time remeber it don't make any sence to you concider your just a weed stay out of this garden

for those who have real questions and pics of roses old and such to post do it and ask away someone and I know this is true someone will help you on this old and beaten path

Party On Wayne

Party On Garth

Good grief . . .

Since the departure of Spike, is there a webmaster who deals with situations like this?

Please, please, EVERYONE DO NOT WRITE ON THIS THREAD! Let the thread die out! I am begging everyone!!!!! Please!!!! My final plea!!!! I am the one solely to blame for any misunderstandings! Everyone who wrote on the thread, you are special in every way. There is no more need for all this fighting. Let the thread die!