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horticultural oil

Posted by poorbutroserich nashville (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 9, 12 at 19:31

Hello. Is this oil petroleum based? The article on RRV suggested spraying it every two weeks during the growing season ( summer weight oil). I thought this would be bad for the rose and that oil was used when roses were dormant.
Are there non petroleum based oils?
Could someone address horticultural oils and roses and point me somewhere?
Thanks!
Susan


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: horticultural oil

Neem oil is from the neem tree. I don't know about others, but horticultural oils are intended for plants and won't hurt them. Neem can be used to control various insects and isn't a dormant oil. Any garden center will have horticultural oils (well, maybe not the big box stores).


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RE: horticultural oil

Ultra Fine and Sun are paraffinic, water soluble oils (petroleum based). They work by suffocating insects and diseases. Neem, as has been stated, is from the Neem tree. Jojoba is plant based, from the Jojoba plant. If you visit your garden center and read the labels, it spells it all out for you.

IF you have extremely intense sun; low humidity; high wind; extreme transipiration rates; irrigation issues, expect foliage burn from any of them. When I worked at the coast here in SoCal, we could use them nine to ten months of the year because of the extreme humidity and usual foggy conditions preventing the sun and heat intensities from scalding the leaves. Move just a few miles inland where the extremes increase dramatically, and they can't be used except for a very short window in winter. Insecticidal Soap is actually an "oil". It is potassium salts of fatty acids, made from animal lard. It, too, can fry the foliage if the sun, heat or transpiration rates are too extreme.

Horticultural oils can be a very effect weapon against insects and diseases, as long as your climate is suitable for them. Mine is not. I have to chuckle when I read, "well, you can rinse it off and prevent burn". If you can rinse off an oil, it isn't very good, nor effective. Even after a month or more, you can still see the effects on treated foliage, that is, unless it's already all been fried off. Hort. oils have often been used in Wasco to burn the foliage off the bare roots before harvest, particularly in winters which haven't been suitably severe to cause any foliage drop. My best advice is use them with extreme caution if you have any of the climate issues mentioned above. Kim


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RE: horticultural oil

Hort oil is no more likely to burn plants than vegetable oils.It's a fraction of petroleum that has been selected and refined for use on plants. Modern "summer" spray oils are less phytotoxic than older dormant-only spray oils. What you find at the garden center will probably be the former.


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RE: horticultural oil

Thanks to all!
When I went to the end of season bargain sale here it seems the roses had been recently oiled. My two Rhapsody in Blue dropped all foliage a few days after having them home. The owner assured me that it was from the oil and they would bounce back. They have.
I believe I have intense sun and extreme transpiration rates.
I guess I'm interested in them as a preventative--it is my understanding that dormant oils (and/or lime sulpher spray) are effective before roses break dormancy but I was just wondering if there was some "preventative" I could use that was environmentally friendly.
Although last year I had no disease at all other than Peace CL which essentially defoliated but is putting on new growth laterally like gangbusters.
Susan


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Insecticidal Soap

Kim (roseseek) mentioned insecticidal soap.

I give insecticidal soap my FULL endorsement. It has a learning curve for when it is best to apply, but it is VERY effective. It is even documented (somewhere) to work on the mites that spread RRD. Since some of my roses succumb to black spot defoliation from time to time or once in a while, etc., and recover just fine, I've determined that similarly they survive any nonjudicial application of the insecticidal soap on my part. BUT, the aphids DO NOT! And without those little sap suckers my roses get stronger and perform better overall.

I just sprayed this weekend. And I tried a new method - in the past I only sprayed the effected tender growth with visible aphids. This time I did all stems down to the ground. Why? Well, I haven't been able to find any info on where the aphids lay their eggs.

[Warning: The rest of this discussion is just paranoid supposition on my part and not scientific AT ALL]
Although we're told that the RRD mites are windblown, I've begun to worry that since they are basically microscopic, they could hitch rides on the aphids without the aphids being able to do anything about it (in the studies on the decline of the bees, mites were found to be effecting some of them). Hell, I suppose it could be possible that the aphids might provide transportation and not even be aware of the mites on them.
[End of paranoid speculation]


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RE: horticultural oil

Yes, Chris, insecticidal soap is a very old, tried and true remedy and can be extremely effective when used appropriately. Grandma's lye soap worked well because it was made with lard, animal fat. That's the active ingredient in insecticidal soap. Oils are fats which remain liquid at room temperature. They smother insects and diseases, while the lard also dries out the exoskeletons of the insects, preventing them from molting so they strangle in their own skins.

It can also severely dry out your skin and is highly caustic to eye tissue, so proper use and protection are essential. All oils, including insecticidal soap, just as with all other garden chemicals and fertilizers, can be highly toxic to aquatic life and should never be used where they can accidentally be introduced into ponds, streams and rivers.

Also, because it contains "animal products", its use sometimes raises some interesting questions when considered by those with religious or moral issues. I've encountered situations where organic controls were desired, but the products could not contain either beef or pork products, which is virtually impossible to determine. One of the most "interesting" situations was where the homeowner required no animal products be used in her garden as she was a strict vegetarian. No blood or bone meal and no animal lard, but complete organic methods were to be followed. It was possible and I respected her requests, but found it rather ironic that the full leather interiors of their Lexus SUV and big Audi sedan, and their expensive, designer clothing accessories seemed somehow exempt.

These products can be highly effective when used properly. But, they are highly phytotoxic, which should be kept in mind. Kim


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Insecticidal Soap

If Kim doesn't clarify and correct his statements, then I will when I have more time.


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RE: horticultural oil

Not to mention oil dependence upon countries where HUMANS are abused. But I digress--
I am not opposed to using insecticidal soap but I don't know when to use it.
I also read something about dunking canes of bare roots in bleach solution before planting???
I feel like any day my garden is going to be invaded and destroyed. I had no idea pests were such pests!
I'd like to release beneficial insects. Where, how, what? When?
Based on my limited experience I am still in the throes of the rose honeymoon.
Thanks you all!


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RE: horticultural oil

How many cool days would you suggest are needed in a row if one uses a horticultural oil in my part of SoCal?


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RE: horticultural oil

With oil or soap, you are probably OK (no guarantees) to use them on well-watered plants in the morning of a day when temperatures will rise no higher than the low (or maybe mid-) 80s. I have used both without harm, and without worrying about future temperatures. It rarely reaches 90 here.


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Insecticidal Soap

About insecticidal soap:

Unless folks don't bathe, I feel confident that anyone reading this is familiar with soap from a very young age. However, there are NUMEROUS incarnations of soap thanks to our modern chemical engineers, but only a correctly formulated one will kill insect pests. No More Tears, for example, will NOT kill them.

Please DO NOT put soap scum on the Koi pond. I know that you weren't going to do that.

At a certain age - and I categorically deny any first hand knowledge of this, it would be difficult to notice any skin drying effects above and beyond the naturally occurring!

Phytotoxic means poisonous to plants.
I've been using insecticidal soap for about a decade and IT has NEVER killed even one of my roses - NOT EVEN my tiny newly received bands. The first thing that happens when I take roses out of the delivery box is I thoroughly spray them with insecticidal soap.

Or stated differently: insecticidal soap is NOT phytotoxic; it's insect toxic (insecticide)! And of the choices for insecticides, it is the most environmentally friendly.

PLUS, one of a beginning gardener's first objectives is to understand N-P-K, the abbreviation for the components in commercial fertilizers. The K stands for potassium. The insecticidal soap I use is formulated with potassium. As it biodegrades, tiny amounts of potassium become available to the roses. And who doesn't love a product with more than one use?

In the link below, see the Wiki article on potassium deficiency.

I also recommend the Wiki article you will find if you search N P K.

Here is a link that might be useful: Potassium Deficiency


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RE: horticultural oil

From Wiki:

"Insecticidal soaps may cause phytotoxicity (toxic to the plant) symptoms, such as yellow or brown spotting on the leaves, burned tips or leaf scorch on certain plants. In general, some cole crops and certain ornamentals are sensitive to burn caused by soaps. Multiple applications in a short time interval can aggravate phytotoxicity."

And almost all the labels on insecticidal soap say that it can be a skin irritant, and to wash off skin immediately.

Despite these things, I don't think anyone has said don't use it. Just use it consciously for your particular environment.


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RE: Insecticidal soap

Folks used to have common sense, respect their elders, and appreciate the wisdom of experience.

The 21st is an ugly place in those regards. Warning: everyone gets older!

I've been a gardener for 30 years. I've been an excellent one (all modesty aside) for about 25 of them.

I have lots of experience with many plants.

Please see the link below for the wiki page referenced above for phytotoxic SYMPTOMS. A friend might display symptoms of a cold - be sneezing, for example, but might only be exposed to some dust.

Many ornamentals are listed on the same page as having sensitivity to insecticidal soap. ROSES are NOT listed as one. THIS is the ROSE FORUM, isn't it? Yes, I thought so.

About that common sense thing, I've lost all patience with the silliness here. If you haven't got the sense to understand what I'm telling you for YOUR benefit, then that ISN'T MY problem. MY roses are beautiful and healthy. So I'm not going to be responding and explaining any future distortion of my well informed and well intentioned post.

And an apology would not be out of order!

Here is a link that might be useful: Insecticidal soap


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RE: horticultural oil

Feel free :)


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RE: horticultural oil

I can't see any need for an apology. That's a bit over the top. We all share from our own experience.

Sandandsun... sounds like you are very satisfied with the way you have chosen to grow roses in your climate and soil. That must make you feel very good about your garden.

Ralph Moore used to say, "As soon as you think you know everything about roses, along comes a rose that makes a liar out of you." In other words, no one knows it all.

In my rose gardening life, one of the things I've learned is that there are a lot of right ways to grow roses. We each find what works for us.

Smiles,
Lyn


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RE: horticultural oil

From MichailG:
"With oil or soap, you are probably OK (no guarantees) to use them on well-watered plants in the morning of a day when temperatures will rise no higher than the low (or maybe mid-) 80s. I have used both without harm, and without worrying about future temperatures. It rarely reaches 90 here."

Hi Michael. You're right, well-watered is KEY. Some random thoughts for discussion on my experience...

Just wondering what your humidity is like in the NC Mtns? Your comment made me wonder if the humidity index might affect the phytotoxicity of 'oils' in hotter weather, ie more humidity, less affect. I'm more coastal than Kim, I'd guess mid-day humidity after the marine layer burns off runs about 20% less than yours if your run 80% or more which is just guessing on my part. 80degs is my limit here, but I've burnt enough leaves now in lower 80s that I just don't use it as when I most need it, it is too hot. (I'm not ragging on the product, just an observation regarding my little part of the world.)

Anyhoo, thought that any observations on humidity would be interesting even though counter intuitive as oils help block transpiration. Or as I think out loud (never a good thing, but I'll do it anyway) the increased humidity helps decrease the soil drying out as much as here.

Oh, and another thing. I won't use it on potted plants anymore either. Our pots are on the concrete driveway so the heat effect on them is greater at a given temperature, not to mention the everyday stress of living in a pot.


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More About Insecticidal Soap

As I have explained before, when I write here I keep in mind the aspiring gardeners and rose growers that do not have my experience. It is infuriating to read misinformation, because gardening is difficult enough (sometimes very challenging) with CORRECT information.

I have written about insecticidal soap (IS) in other threads. You may read the information in those posts using the link below.

Whereas I do not dispute michaelg's guidance, I would add the following for consideration. Here, in the Deep South, daytime temperature in the mid to upper 80s can occur with nighttime lows in the 70s. When this is true, the "heat of the day" arrives earlier and lasts longer. And this is usually coincident with the persistence of the intensity of the sun. Scientists tell us that we cannot determine a true cause unless we isolate it as the only factor. Well, I can't control nature, so I don't know to what extent the potential for leaf burn is related to heat vs. the intensity of the sun's rays, or even other factors. (Before I moved to Florida, I had become aware of the UV index. Sometimes the weather broadcaster would warn that folks should be cautious because the UV index was going to be 8 or 9 that day. I wrongly concluded that the index was a 0-10 scale. Here, I've seen 11 and 12 UV index days). So although I'm not stating a rule by any means, I personally look at the nighttime lows. If the nighttime lows are in the mid 60s or less, then I feel more comfortable about spraying IS with less potential for leaf burn. The aphids seem to arrive and thrive best during those weather periods - just when the roses feel it is comfortable to put out new growth, of course, because the aphids can only penetrate and feed on tender new growth.

I wish you all success and beautiful roses!

Here is a link that might be useful: Insecticidal Soap


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RE: horticultural oil

I've had good luck in the past with the Cornell Formula. Since I always have gallons of mineral oil handy, that's what I use in my concoction. It did help quite a bit with both aphids and powdery mildew. Although since using it in my first year, I now ignore the aphids, and yank any roses with too much mildew for my tastes.


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RE: horticultural oil

Just a couple of things here.....

I don't respect people just because of their age. Respect is earned; it is not automatic. I respect the wisdom of ALL well-written, informed authors here. Everyone usually has a pretty darned good point.

Silly can be fun. Some folks have been known to make careers out of silly. (See Python: Monty, et al.)

Just because someone is 10, 20, or 50 years older than me doesn't mean that they have more common sense than me.

Condescension won't earn anyone more brownie points in the respect column.


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RE: Flaurabunda

Hi flaurab,

This is not to be taken as my opening a discussion on the subject with you - I'm not "getting into it" with you as they say. I'm simply responding to this one post.

Sometimes respect is DESERVED. Stating one's credentials, correcting errors and false or misleading statements is not condescension. It is documentation in the first case, and a service to novices in the latter.

The casual observer (someone who lurks here, for example) can draw some well-informed judgments about the character of individuals IN GENERAL who post here. I'm old fashioned, I suppose, but character and integrity are important to me. What's really and truly nice about this forum is that I won't EVER have to write any of this again! It is written.

I wish YOU success and beautiful roses, too!

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to attend to life.


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RE: horticultural oil

Yes, sometimes respect is deserved. The funny thing about respect is that it's the listener who gets to determine its deservedness, not the person demanding it.

I do enjoy reading your posts. But there's a distinct difference between asking someone about a mistake you believe they posted, and telling them they need to correct it or you'll do it for them.


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RE: horticultural oil

Chris...

I think you are missing the point about whether or not your great and long experience is transferable to other climates. A cultural practice that works well for you may be an absolute disaster in another climate.

If I were to use any oil based product in my garden in the mountains of northern California chances are very high that I would end up with severe leaf burn on all of my roses.

In spring, the day temps might be hovering in the sixties and within a day be over 100 degrees. If I sprayed with any oil based product, I'd have fried roses. In summer, my temps at midnight might be sixty degrees, but by 9 a. m. the next morning, the temps can be 100 plus degrees.

What works for you, will not work for everyone. Whether or not I respect your views has nothing to do with the gardening practices I feel I must follow in a very different climate.

Yes, I do get aphids, but, to me, they are a very minor problem in this garden. It's the rose curculio, an insect which you do not have to deal with in your garden, that is my primary nemesis.

It has been suggested that insecticidal soap would be the solution to that problem, but contact insecticides have to make contact and the curculios work from first light to last light seven days a week. I don't.

I control the potential infestation in a different way without using any poisons or hand picking bugs. BUT my method only works for the rose curculio and would not work for, let's say, the Japanese beetle or the Fuller rose beetle because they have a different life cycle.

As I said above, we each learn what works for us in our gardens, but I should have added, we also each decide how much time and work we are willing to do to grow our roses.

Smiles,
Lyn


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RE: Flaurabunda

Flaurab,

Thank you.

From my perspective, the "belief" part of the equation is relevant to what I believe and know about my character and integrity. I hoped that I had explained why I corrected a post(s) - not the individual, you know. Facts aren't personal unless they are personal facts. And I didn't desire for anyone to take it personally.

No one has ever accused me of forgetting where I came from. I remember how difficult and frustrating those first 5 years were (although decreasingly so and once in a while very encouraging too) while I continued to read and read and read diverse authors yearning in the hope that it didn't really take the staff of a botanical garden to have a garden!

And here the sand and sun of my Florida home reminds me quite frequently that the journey was NOT then, now, nor ever will be easy. There is however, as with all gardens, the slow but sure progress to the promises as yet unfulfilled.

I empathize with those for whom, like me the beauty of the earth is almost incomparable, and who are working to have it at hand - o'er us and around us spread. I want SO MUCH for them to succeed!


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RE: horticultural oil

"Now if you'll excuse me, I have to attend to life."

I think that's a great suggestion and will follow it elsewhere on the forum.


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RE: horticultural oil

This was an awesome thread. Thanks for ruining it for us, SAS.


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RE: horticultural oil

Yes, it is an awesome thread. I, too, remember my first years of growing roses and how I tried to diligently follow all of the advice about how to grow roses and wasn't really sure what I was doing right and what needed to be tweaked to get my roses to thrive.

Only over time did I learn that not all cultural practices would work where I was gardening. I often had to learn that lesson the hard way. So, to me, it's important to let those who are new to growing roses understand that there may be some basic practices we can share to help them along the way, but they need to be aware that what works in one climate might not work in another climate. There are so many variables.

I could no more give Chris advice about how to grow roses in Florida than I could to someone who was growing roses in Canada. I have never had hands on experience in growing roses in those very different climates.

No matter how long I have grown roses, there is always something new I can learn. I'll never consider myself an "expert" except in my own garden. That's where I have had my failures and my successes.

Smiles,
Lyn


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I say this

It seems a response is demanded, so I will say this.

The wise rose growers here - even those in California, have repeatedly advised readers to listen to regional advice.

I have considered recent posts and realized that I, like anyone who reads here, understands that black spot and aphids among other things aren't much of an issue in California.

In dismay, I read posts by some Californians who think they know so much about the right answers on a thread originated on the East Coast. And who possibly imply that I probably don't know any better than they do. How could I?

It reminds me of some of the folks in my neighborhood here who while out for a stroll or walking their dogs would see me gardening when I first moved here and LAUGH with serious scorn and say quite meanly that I was a fool and that nothing was going to live, etc. That went on for a couple of years. I listened quietly. It didn't turn out as they predicted. They still walk by, but now they are quiet. Naturally, they don't expect that I will initiate conversation with them after enduring their know it all ridicule. Now I garden in peace, and the beauty grows increasingly round about me. And the nice folks admire and compliment it. So it is. And it is as it should be.

And on this thread, even when the facts are presented and experience documented, on and on it must go. None of it diminishes the facts about insecticidal soap, my years of experience with it, my personal gardening experience, or me.


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RE: horticultural oil

Sorry you have such an issue with California.


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RE: horticultural oil

It's really too bad you think this forum is about YOU (emphasizing since you like to use upper case to YELL).

I remember last time I decided to back off from this forum was around a time you lamblasted some poor neighboring person in Florida for making a comment you didn't like about Orange roses. I think you essentially called her a idiot.

Sorry guys for engaging in this. I know I shouldn't stoop, but it's just really hard.

I personally use this forum as THERAPY. A place to relax, smile, have fun, learn a lot, share stories and information about roses.

This isn't the place for narcissisticm. It isn't about YOU. If you want to share your infinite, omniscient rose knowledge, write a blog. Or go to anger management classes. Or take tranquilizers.

Again - sorry to others.


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RE: horticultural oil

SAS, I am dismayed to tell you that we do have problems with aphids here in California. Many folks chose to spray water instead of chemicals and/or let the other bugs in the garden take care of them.

I am also dismayed to tell you that while So Cal doesn't have much of a black spot problem, it can be a nuisance in some northern parts of the state.

I am, however, very glad to note that we are on the same page in at least one area. Your understanding of the facts as you know and experience them, does not in any way diminish my garden experience or me in any way either. As it should be.


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RE: horticultural oil

If you look at a map of the United States, and draw a parallel from California on the West Coast to the East Coast, we range from Southern New York all the way down to lower Georgia. And our climates are as varied as those in all of those east coast states (although "generally" less humidity, but again, depending on area). We have areas that snow most of the year, places that never come out of the fog, places where it's mostly sunny all year - some places really hot, some places pretty temperate, some with lots of rain, some with almost no rain. I find the entire state to be beautiful, and a lovely place to live (being an ex-New Yorker).

I've had times where my buds were absolutely smothered in aphids (fortunately this year was light). After hearing from this forum that they wouldn't hurt my roses - from many parts of the country (I'm thinking an aphid is an aphid wherever it lives), I stopped being neurotic about them. And I took suggestions from here and when they bug (!) me, I power spray them with water as it is a personal option to stay stray free. Not a judgment call - a personal preference applied to just me and my situation. And interesting as I spray gallons of pyrethrin based fly spray in my barn every year. Go figure?

Every spring is different. This was my first one for rust as we had a super heavy late rain season in my area - extremely unusual. The rust scared the bejebers out of me, but again, this forum came to my rescue. And I got my first taste of heavy duty blackspot - which fortunately was cured by our fabulous summer weather, but gave me the opportunity to empathize with those who suffer with it all year long.

I personally always clarify my Zone as NorCA 9b. But I couldn't care less when people don't. All information is valuable, all to be assimilated, and all to be taken with a grain of salt.

Fortunately the norm here is very warm, giving, sharing, lovely people. Right now I remember to not take that for granted.


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RE: horticultural oil

harmony, I completely empathize because also for the first time I had rust this spring, and blackspot and mildew. I was not a happy camper! Come summer everything went away except that I have a very few roses with some blackspot. There have been so many times when I've freaked out and the lovely people on this forum made me sane again with their sage and comforting advice. Being part of a group that shares the same passion and understands your fears and quiets them has been a uniquely wonderful experience. Very few people see my roses and even fewer appreciate them but I never feel alone because this forum is almost like family. One or two less than nice people in the past have fallen by the wayside, I think much to everyone's relief, and I hope we can keep this forum as a refuge for like-minded souls, and support and encourage one another.


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RE: horticultural oil

Ingrid, I, too, garden in isolation. No one stopping and backing up to ogle my roses--strictly for my satisfaction. One day, I'm gong to have a huge, daylight party to strut my stuff.


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RE: horticultural oil

In the spirit of solitary gardening and intake, that is my experience, and for me it is a preferred experience. Might be really interesting to pyschologically analyze this, but I don't like seeing my garden through another's eyes.

On the rare occasion I've had company in the gardens, I've had two kinds of experiences. One - blindly wild about the garden. The other, a critical eye. Both bothered me. My garden isn't perfect, and I don't want it that way. On the other hand, I'm not too interested in what others think it could or should be. For me my garden is my personal, theraputic space. It's an extension of me. I can be muted, or wildly colorful, experimental, prudent, anything I want, anywhere I want, whenever I want.

Now, strangely enough - I do love to share it via sharing bouquets and photos. Just, not the physical space itself. WoooOOOoooo. Perhaps this thread really rubbed off on me more than I thought! I'm feeling a little coo coo now...


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RE: horticultural oil

My tips on throwing garden parties:

First make sure that all of your guests have visited when it was not a garden, but a vermin infested jungle.

Change from nothing but miles of dirt to something hard that is not dirt and trim the trees and bushes so you can walk with out getting hit in the head.

Include chairs that you might want to sit on.

Keep the chickens on their side of the fence.

Oh wait, those are my tips to me on how garden parties are finally possible at moms place....lol

on a serious note, we have done all that, added the roses and a zillion solar lights so mom can have her church ladies friends over. She can also have her health group friends over and sit in the main garden.

It is NOT perfect, but it really helps if everyone remembers how bad it used to be


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RE: horticultural oil

Kippy, I enjoyed your tips, they made me smile. I don't know if I'll ever consider my garden good enough to show on a garden-open day. I don't think I have enough roses, only 80 at most. You've given your mom a wonderful setting to enjoy her get-togethers and also a beautiful place to enjoy when she's alone.

harmony, I know exactly what you mean. The only time I do like to show my garden is when it's to another experienced rosarian who understands exactly where I'm coming from and can be truly appreciative, and we can discuss the individual roses intelligently. However, I do enjoy family members and friends who come here and say they enjoy the peace and beauty of my rather isolated hillside home and garden, because I can see how it relaxes them and gives them a respite from their more crowded and noisy domiciles. I then feel I've given them a gift that they genuinely appreciate, even though they don't focus on the roses in particular.

Ingrid


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RE: horticultural oil

Ingrid...

I learned something really important about sharing my garden this year. All I see are the weeds and the things I've been wanting to get to and the only thing the visitors see are the roses.

I just tell them that the "garden is a work in progress" and try to look at the garden through their eyes. I actually get a chance to enjoy the garden in a different way because I am not thinking of my things-to-do list. Since I garden on four levels, there are always things to do on each level.

My garden is far from perfect and never matches the garden in my mind, but the visitors don't even notice. All they see are roses that have never been offered for sale up here and are amazed at how many different classes of roses and types of bloom forms that can be found in roses.

Smiles,
Lyn


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RE: horticultural oil

Lyn - I think you hit the nail on the head for me. When I have people here, the weeds and things that need to be done stand out more for me. When I'm alone in the garden, I'm much kinder on myself.

Ingrid - though I get exactly what you are saying about having a place where "city" folk can come and relax and enjoy the country. My 10 acres, mostly horse ranch, does do that, and people visiting do seem to feel very serene here. But again, there I am looking at everything seeing all the "work" that I'm behind in.


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RE: horticultural oil

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 27, 12 at 16:10

We're always hardest on ourselves. I'm always seeing what needs to be done but when people stop over they always tell me how beautiful the garden and roses are. Maybe we need to believe them and stop beating ourselves up!


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RE: horticultural oil

Mom just called a bit ago having had a good day in the garden with her friends. She had 4 church lady friends come and sit on the patio we made last fall under the persimmon tree. It stays nice and cool on a hot day there. They enjoyed the roses, did not notice that I ran out of time to mow the lawn on Friday and ended their day in the lower garden, sitting under the plum tree, watching the finches ask for their seeds and talking to the neighbors as they walked up the street. She shared some of her apple butter, a butternut squash and a few pumpkins with her friends.

I get a tickle out of hearing her happy voice telling about the day out there.

A bit over a year ago, the patio was a patch of stinging nettles and the plum tree area was a pile of old wood and junk hidden from the street by a massive yucca


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RE: horticultural oil

I just guessing that all of you do not show roses. Cause oil on the leaves will get you DQ ed
I don't have enough insect trouble to merit spraying for them.
I use a fungicide weekly and have clean foliage, until our watering ban hit!


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