I don't know about your area, but I think St Patrick is kind of a dud. Ours is several years old and is probably on its third flush for the season, but it is hard to call 4 roses a flush.

Brave (or foolhardy) of you to comment there, Kips - St.Patrick seems one of those roses which has heaps of fans (oddly), much like the horrible Souvenir de la Malmaison, Peace or those horrid stripey things(culminating in the truly horrendous puce and mustard tragedy whose name I have blanked from my memory). - prepare to duck and cover.

taken today

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8 blooms on St. Patrick, young rose no fragrance.
Peace, healthy as a horse, no fragrance, wife wanted it.
Olympiad one bloom and a bunch of new growth on one cane.
I really like fragrance roses, but I also wanted a lot of blooms for cut flowers. I viewed SP as a yellow Olympiad. Regarding stepping in it, the Austin roses I bought 25 years ago looked good in the catalog but didn't do spit in my garden.
I'm going to by a Pope John Paul rose and a Chrysler imperial or another recommended fragrant red HT.

Duck and cover, Suzy, since SdlM is my most floriferous, bushy rose and has been the mainstay of my garden this horrible summer. Knowing your dislike of double roses and my suspicion that it probably balls and mildews in your climate, I'm prepared to understand your animosity. I respect personal likes and dislikes (after all I hate bright red and glaring orange roses), and it would be a dull and dreary world without opinionated firebrands like you. Carry on!

Ingrid

Proves the adage about location, location, location. Every rose is someone's best/worst rose depending on where they are. And they don't even have to be very far apart to make the difference either.

Ha Camps-love it!

I guess my two duds are others faves must haves. I think my lack of success says more about my plants in my location, surely they must do wonderful for some one else in order to be still in the market (or everyone loves the name and that is what they are buying)

Steve's St Patrick looks better than ours!

I think the only reason Queen Elizabeth and St Patrick put out a few buds is they saw me eyeing the bed, new plant in hand holding the shovel. Going to banish them to the spot plants go to die in-just have to do a couple of things in that bed that I don't need to be thorned while doing first.

Cl Sdlm-sure enough the one long cane got mildew like a champ, turned crispy with the heat, and now was dying back several feet. I cut it to the same height as happier canes-but am trying to root the one lateral that was full of buds-figured it was about to get swallowed in the die back so why not. Oh wait, I know why not...... :) Sure hope age improves her cause I really really want that rose to be happy.

This post was edited by Kippy-the-Hippy on Sat, Oct 5, 13 at 12:54

Camps if you, for whatever reason, feel the urge to visit my gardens make sure you save the paper bag provided by the airline. You will need it!!

SCG

SDLM does not seem to be bothered by the heat here smack dab in the middle of the Mojave Desert; it was a band in a pot outside during July when the temperatures hit 118-120, withstood morning sun temperatures in the high 90's, and continues to be very healthy. Our temperatures have been in the high 70's and low 80's, clear blue skies and sunny as usual, which will continue for a bit, so it is loving life right now. It and Bishop's Castle will always get a thumbs up from me. But, every rose has its garden, and the purchaser of the rose has the only taste that counts:)

Lynn

Well, Kippy and I both live in places where hot weather roses do terribly. Both St. Patrick and SDLM are what I term hot weather roses -- they need their heat to do well, and I haven't got what they clearly need.

On the other hand, I can grow the roses that despise heat, like Rhapsody in Blue, quite successfully. I tend to favor the recommendations that come from the Pacific Northwest more than I do the So Cal recommendations for that reason. So Cal is just too variable in and of itself.

Location, location, location.

SDLM is usually good here but I have seen what it does when it (rarely) gets rainy here. The blooms turn to mush and it can look really ugly. I can only imagine how it might look in Great Britain-type climate!

Yeah, anything remotely classed as a hot weather rose surely spells doom even in arid (but greyish) east anglia. For sure, we have this moistly forgiving maritime climate but we also got those austere cloudy summers where even an august heatwave (yah, laughable to Texans who would still be in their cardies and possibly thermal undies) translates to a sort of damply glowing cool light. And not just climate either since there are some fine specimens of SDLM and its ilk to be seen, especially nestled against ancient stone walls or huge yew hedges - but, battered by searing easterlies under an open fen sky, those fragile looking teas and other exotica (Gloire de Dijon, another utter failure springs immediately to mind), are rapidly reduced to fading dishrags.
Peace - well, pink and yellow together always seems a bit nauseating to me (a trait which troubles me less with Mutabilis)....and when accompanied by grim blackspot and gaunt canes....well, nope, not for me.
The other purplish and yellowish (a week old black eye) things (there are several of them, shudder) need no apology or explanation - truly hideous mockery of rosedom - to my opiniated mind, obvs, and in no way a personal stab in the heart.

Steve are you going for fragrance or color or something else? There are some great cutting roses that grow tall and make loads of flowers. For me these are
Radox Bouquet
Memorial Day
Eternal Flame
Pope John Paul II
Frederic Mistral
Scentimental
White Queen Elizabeth
Flamingo ( A Kordes rose that is a light pink and flowers all the time on a tall bush)

All of these have been tall and upright and bloomed all through the summer. Honor and Lagerfeld are tall and very beautiful but usually take a rest between flowering cycles.

Firefighter seems to be a tall rose as well and has excellent perfume but this is only my second year growing it.

I would start making your holes now and take your time while you think about what you really want there.

kittymoonbeam:

Thanks for your advice and recommendations.

Me digging holes is something I don't want to think about.

When we bought are house in 1985 most of the landscaping was natural. There were maybe three rose bushes. We liked them. Within three years there were 200 rosebushes; planted everywhere including places that were not ideal. Then the deer came and for over 20 years the area from where my roses are planted now to the roses on my slope is a moonscape. This area is about 30 feet long. We decided to plant the area with something the deer wouldn't like and picked either Bayberry or Barberry. I decided that I wasn't going to take on the project and if I need holes for he roses, let the landscaper dig the holes. I'll have him save the dirt and mix it with planting mix. I can handle the planting.
If I stay in the same area as where I am now there is room for two more bushes. I have another good area where there's room for six or so more. I'll get a quote on the cost per hole.

I will get a Pope John Paul and a Firefighter and maybe some more. I was going to get them from Jackson Perkins but another thread here wasn't too encouraging.
Since you live in California, I am likely to find them and other of your recommendations at Home Depot, Loews or Orchard Supply? I got most of the 200 roses from Pickering, Hortico, local growers and wax coated HT from Payless when I first started.

Thanks again

Kippy likes a California nursery called Otto and Sons and it seems they have everything except what you have to get as a band sized own root. Down here near LA a good nursery for rose selection is San Gabriel Nsy. Armstrong used to be able to order a wide selection but I haven't bought there in a few years so I don't know what the quality would be. I would avoid the big box stores and go with a good nursery that orders bareroots. There must be some great nurseries in the SF Bay area with ability to order what you want.

My Radox was a band from Heirloom and my Flamingo came from Palatine. For own root HTs I like Northland Rosarium in Washington State because the plants are a good size and I like the selection. Shipping is less to CA from Washington than from other nurseries across the country. Northland opens up later in the year so you would have to wait until spring to get your roses planted. Rosemania has a good list every year of grafted on Dr. Huey HTs. I usually get something from them and the quality is always great. They also offer some "sneak peek" roses a year before the general release. Rosemania has a good price on the shipping rate right now.

This post was edited by kittymoonbeam on Sun, Oct 6, 13 at 17:50

I contacted the two best know nurseries in my area.
They both buy from Weeks. One puts all the bare root in machete pots for sale and the other sells bare root.
They should be in the nurseries in December.

The three I bought in April this year were from Roses of Yesterday and Today near Santa Cruz. They were listed as Weeks mail order outlets. I'll visit the nursery in December. I believe that Weeks also supplies the big box stores. Nothing is ever easy.

Otto's is a long ways from you, I bought a lot of the DA's from them because they had a wide variety and I wanted bigger plants for mom (when your almost 90 waiting a few years for a big plant is a big deal)

I picked up all my bareroots from a local nursery, Weeks is one of their big suppliers. They sell bareroot in January and in April potted in 5g.

But with the exception of one rose I want, I am pretty much done with buying bigger plants. The yard looks good so I can sneak a few babies in and mom likes them.

I have to mention that Frederic Mistral does get tall, but mine also gets wide, very wide--like about 7 feet wide (and tall). I love it and it's always in bloom, but it does take up lots of space. Kitty's Memorial Day bouquet photo she recently posted on another thread was just stunning, but my pitiful MDay produced just one bloom for its September "flush". What a difference location and the resultant climate makes.
On the subject of the deer invasion, I just read today that Highland, Utah, is having Utah's first "urban" deer hunt. Trained archers will be allowed to shoot the deer in city limits.The City Council approved the hunt, citing the problem of deer destroying residents' gardens, and the large number of deer hit by vehicles. I'm not surprised this has come about. Diane

Frederic M's width would probably be constrained as the deer nibble off anything sticking out past the cages. This grows so fast. It seems almost ideal for your situation. I forgot Sugar Moon, it's as tall as Honor but has a different blossom shape and better fragrance.

The end of the season is fast approaching and I STILL SEE DEAD THINGS! Have all of your JB's come MY way??
Their numbers have dwindled down but each day they still exist. I mash about a dozen @#$*!! daily. Planters and pots being emptied and put away here. Leaves maybe half the trees are down to rake. No fall showing for me-a few perfect specimens on Purple Passion or Heirloom. Disneyland going to give me a few. Hot Cocoa ruined, also 4th of July and my silly old Knockout. If there are no flowers they eat the leaves anyway. sigh...
Congrats Steve-don't give in- even expanding your rosegarden--wowzer send me some of that enthusiasm!
I'll feel better come spring.