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fertilizer and salts

Posted by andreark 9b (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 11, 13 at 17:56

From what I've read here before, too much fertilizer can supply a rose plant with too much salt, and that could result in wrinkled leaves. One of my plants (Lycidas) flowers beautifully but some of the leaves are rather wrinkled and dry looking. This rose is in a 24 gallon container and was planted precisely the same as the other 4 that are in this size pot.

This plant was purchased and planted just one month ago.
Is it possible that the nursery over 'fed' it? It already had some foliage problems when I purchased it. And the new leaves look somewhat better, but still not as green and shiny as those in the other pots.

I didn't fertilize it when last I did the others. Is there anything I can do, other than just continue watering it and hoping that this will wash out the excess salt?

andrea


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: fertilizer and salts

Anything is possible, Andrea. IF there was too much inorganic fertilizer applied at the nursery, the two things you can do are:

remove most of the soil and replace it with fresh soil without any fertilizer, then continue watering and hope you haven't disturbed the roots enough to set it back; or...

simply continue watering it in hopes of flushing the fertilizer from the soil while hydrating the plant. Personally, if it isn't THAT bad, I'd just keep watering it to flush it all out and keep the plant hydrated. If it IS that bad, I'd gently remove some of the surface soil, seeing if you can detect any fertilizer granules in that soil, then replacing it with fresh soil with no fertilizer. In either case, keeping it properly watered is the way to go. Good luck! Kim


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Don't panic, YL has strange wavy foliage sometimes, in fact, often. It can look dull in the leaf but it stays healthy. I think it must have Madame Isaac Pereire in its parentage as it has similar foliage to that. Over watering it will just cause other problems.

Also, all fertilisers are salts, so by washing them out you are washing fertiliser out. Do a quick search for fertiliser+osmosis on google and you will get some quick reading.


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Thanks Kim and Caldonbeck....

Two more questions. One for Kim, what do fertilizer granules look like? Are they little blue balls?

And second for C, if your soil drains well, what damage can too much water produce.

Thanks again,

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Time release fertilizers are often small beads of anything from clear, to beige, yellow, blue to blue-green in color. Often, when you crush them between your fingers, they spurt water from them. If they've used monthly, not time released types, they can look like dark to light gray, even beige "pellets". How long ago had you purchased this plant? The average time released stuff goes about three months, and most often doesn't release too much of anything at once, unless conditions are very hot, or a tremendous amount of it is over used all at once. If a monthly type was used, and it's been several months, I wouldn't think that would be an issue. Kim


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RE: fertilizer and salts

andrea.......

When I owned my condo in San Diego, I discovered by accident that some roses simply are not "heavy feeders", and I would feed them every other time when I fed the roses. The first one that comes to mind is "Heartbreaker". Once I cut back feeding this container rose, it was a healthier and more vital plant. At the time, I was growing 50 roses in containers.

I suspect the nurseries treat all roses the same, so I am not really surprised that one of your roses might not be looking as good as the others.

I agree with Kim about just flushing the soil, but do be careful not to keep the soil in the container too wet as roses really object to wet feet.

Smiles,
Lyn


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Kim,
I just purchased and potted YL one month ago. So, I will just keep watering and hope the fert or salt washes out.

Lyn,
My pots drain very well. So YL doesn't sit with feet in water.

Thanks all,

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

If the blue beads near the surface feel empty, they are empty. If they are heavy, they still contain fertilizer and water. The plastic lasts for years after the fertilizer is gone.

What you describe is not necessarily a salts problem. Excess salts can halt growth by making it impossible for plants to take up water through osmosis. A common foliar symptom is burning around the edges of leaves, especially with small round brown spots at the margins. If your plant is growing well and does not show marginal burning, I doubt there is a salts problem.

Manufactured fertilizers are not necessarily higher in bad salts than manure. All fertilizers contain salts and any fertilizer is harmful in excess. Avoid manufactured fertilizers containing chloride or sodium. Both good salts (nutritive) and bad salts are soluble and will wash out with surplus irrigation.


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RE: fertilizer and salts

I will repeat though, I think you have misdiagnosed. YL has wavy, matt foliage all of the time. If you keep pouring water into the pot hoping to 'wash out' the fertiliser all you are going to achieve is having an unhappy rose sitting in wet, nutrient bare growing medium. You want to keep every bit of food and micronutrients in the pot. 24 Gallon is a large pot, assuming the nursery fed it when it was in a smaller pot and you have transplanted it I'm not sure why you think you have a problem.


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Caldonbeck is far more familiar with the particular rose in question than I. If he is of the opinion there is likely nothing wrong with the rose, I would follow his suggestions for it. If it ain't broke, don't go fixing it! You'll encounter many more problems trying to make it something it can't be. Kim


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RE: fertilizer and salts

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 12, 13 at 13:12

Luckily caldonbeck has that type of rose and can give you advice.

Also, there are times I go on Helpmefind.com and look at pics of roses/blooms/leaves, etc....
This can help at times also...

Here is a link that might be useful: YL rose


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RE: fertilizer and salts

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 12, 13 at 13:22

I was reading & looking at pics on HMF.com about YL and I found a couple comments saying the exact thing caldonbeck is telling you about YL.

Here is a link that might be useful: YL rose


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Thanks for the link, Jim, but I live on HMF. That was the first thing that I did. I looked at the 'close up' photos of YL's leaves and also read all of the comments. None of the photos look anything like my plant's leaves.

MY YL has very very small, wrinkled, dry, and yellowing leaves. The close-ups on HMF show much larger,green and health looking leaves.

I am not over watering the plant. But I will keep up the regular watering schedule and see what happens.

Thanks again, Y'all.

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Jim, I just got your second message about HMF. I must be doing something wrong on HMF. I am a paid member but all I can find is 4 comments. Three saying what nursery has the plant and one that says nothing about leaves.

What do you think I am doing wrong?

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

May be -- we have a semantics problem.

Can you give us a clear image of some of the leaves in question?

Jeri


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Jeri,

I am at work right now. And when I get home tonight, it will be too late for a photo. But I will post a photo tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the help.

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 12, 13 at 15:22

andreark ,

Comments were not in the comment section but beside pics of YL.

Rose photo courtesy of HonzaPM
Czech Republic, 12.8.2011, my garden in zone 5b. Young Lycidas is really free-flowering, always with blooms, they are so fragrant! (old roses such as Mme Isaac Pereire), leaves are really untypical (seems like not healthy ones - but they really are) and I think I dislike their form -or maybe I need some time, of course :)
Uploaded 14 AUG 11

Here is a link that might be useful: Click here:


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Jim,

Thanks for telling me where the comment was. However, the photo
shows green and shiny healthy leaves.

I will try to post photos of my plant tomorrow. (Not a great photographer)
The leaves are about 1/3 the size, dry,wrinkled and yellowing.

Thanks again,

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 12, 13 at 17:17

Nice clear pics of your leaves is a great idea andrea....
Sometimes I have to take 10 pics to get one good one...lol


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RE: fertilizer and salts

For LEAVES, one good way to get a good image is a flatbed scanner. You really get good focus and good detail. (See below, leaf-cutter bee damage)

Jeri


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Great suggestion, Jeri. Just got to work and don't have a scanner at home. But will take leaves to work on Monday and use the scanner.

andrea


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RE: fertilizer and salts

Good! I do this frequently, to show something specific.

Jeri


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