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History on Strangely Named Roses?

Posted by harmonyp NorCA 9b (My Page) on
Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 11:57

The first one that comes to mind is "Fragrant Cloud". To this day I wonder - how on earth did a dark deep orange, that has absolutely nothing light and puffy about it - end up with the name Fragrant Cloud? I get the first part - but the cloud baffles me. Wondering if anyone knows the background on this. Or any other history on some interestly named roses?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

A cloud of fragrance???

Jeri


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Happy Butt was reportedly named to honor a woman named Gladys. No kidding. Sweet Revenge was to be named for the introducer's ex husband who had really done her wrong. It was announced it was to bear his name, but at the last minute, when she had control over the situation once again, it became Sweet Revenge. Sean McCann wanted to name a rose for a friend, but she countered it should be called what everyone else called her, Crazy Dottie. Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

And Happy Butt, FWIW, is one heck of a nice rose.

I guess it does Exhibition form in the mid-west, and probably budded, but in my area it's a lovely cup of a rose. So, Gladys "Glad-A*s" got a good one. It's fragrant, too -- and completely free of disease here.

Jeri


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 16:41

And SO pretty!


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 17:25

FC is a German rose, FC is a translation of the original name which is 'Duftwolke'. German rose names can be rather hard to love: 'Lions Fairy Tale', 'Hamburger Phoenix', and so on. However those names can be a refreshing contrast to the treacle-dripping names J&P was pumping out there at the end.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

My favorite rose name is 'White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth', a translation of the Chinese. I suspect that many of the old china roses brought to England from china in the early 19th century have similarly lovely names, but we know them all as named for the Englishmen who "discovered" them (frequently by buying them at a nursery, or noticing them in someone's garden).

Jackie


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I knew a lady that grew a rose named 'Blumenschmidt' & she always joked "you would have to wash your mouth out with soap if you tried to say that name 10 X in a row real fast"


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 19:27

There is a book I own called "A Rose by Any Name: The Little Known Lore and Deep Rooted History of Rose Names," by Douglas Brenner. Its a great little book and tells you the story behind a lot of different roses :)

One that I found interesting:
Baltimore Belle was named for Hannah Hawkins, whose father John, a former alcoholic, became a leader in the temperance and abstinence movement. In 1842 Samuel Feast who was a Baltimore Nurseryman and also a pillar of the Baptist church in that area, introduced a rose called Baltimore Belle. To show your support for the Temperance and abstinence movement, you could plant a "Baltimore Belle" in the front of your house.

Tammy


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Feast was a marketing genius! LOL! Having been raised Southern Baptist, I can well imagine the rush to buy his Baltimore Belles to plant in front of each home. No wonder the rose is so frequently found! LOL! Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Reading my old Michael's Premier Roses catalog, his comments on Yardley English Rose is: "This rose is too good for such a lousy name". IIRC it was named for Yardley's scented soap.

Modern Roses lists a deep red fragrant HT as N**** Boy. States it's a 1933 Australian rose named in honor of the Bushman with no offense intended. Ooohkaaay.

Re. marketing-influences, Peace was re-named from Gloria Dei to latch onto the hopes of 1945.

Pax, see above, evoking the hopes of 1918.

(not meaning to sound snarky, growers have to make sales & sales need promotions. Obviously, 99% of names have market considerations in mind)

There's some story re. Chrysler Imperial (1952) latching onto the automobile's popularity & some rose people criticizing the decision.

I think Happy Butt is a laugh. But I don't think we'll see a Gut Wagon, Stalin, or Corpse anytime soon (was it Ralph Moore who likened the grey roses to dead mouse flesh?) LOL


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Ironically, we had a Stalin (1958 HT). You need the book Papa Floribunda, the Gene Boerner Story. It details what they did to introduce the rose Fashion. Neiman Marcus in Dallas (or Houston? I forget which) was turned in to a store-wide promotion with soft goods, furniture, appliances, continuous fashion shows and some several hundred potted, Fashion roses in bud and bloom. Of course, the name was after the magazine. Nothing quite so elaborate was pulled off for Vogue.

It also gives the stories behind Ma Perkins (radio character); Jiminy Cricket (Disney character); New Yorker (another top of the line Chrysler); and background on a number of his other names. Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Oh, & re. the temperance movement, a Methodist (preacher?) man researched & perfected a way to preserve grape juice without the alcohol. His name? why, WELCH, of course.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

STALIN!!!? Yer KIDDING! After Joe "kill 'em all" Stalin!!? Well, I guess if I'd lived in post-revolution Russia I would have planted a hedge worth for self-preservation. Like having to plant a conspicuous Baltimore Belle if you were a temperance-era Baptist or Methodist in our more gentle area.

Those rose-name history books sound fascinating. Please keep posting.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I like the German 'snow fairy' better than iceberg.

I do love iceberg though. It's everywhere here. I started saying "Hi Iceberg" whenever I spotted one while I was driving around. Then my sister started saying it and now the little tot is just learning to say Hi to Iceberg. It's so cute when he does it and he spots them faster than we do sometimes.

( I had a friend from Hawaii and he said it's a better game to play than punch-buggy was )


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I can well imagine from this parentage, rust and black spot must have been pretty bad, but I'd still have like to have seen it. I guess there is little doubt what eventually killed it, you think? Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Dark Red Rose


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I love Captain Thomas's 'Bishop Darlington,' because it's a great rose here -- but I ALSO love it because the real life Bishop Darlington was not only an Anglican Bishop, but also a poet, and a huge proponant of Women's Sufferage.

I think every lady with any political consciousness should grow 'Bishop Darlington.'

Jeri


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 22:58

Ok, so now that you've all got me reading my little book again :) Here's a couple more quick ones:

The Fairy:
Introduced in England during The Great Depression, people were finding escapes through such writings as Peter Pan and The Blue Fairy Book. When this rose came out, it was said to have wandlike stems and little pink pompoms that kept reappearing as if by magic. Its low speading habit also appeared to be the ideal habitat for fairies and sprites. (there's a sugar-coated little story for ya!)

Sexy Rexy: Named for one of Sam McGredy's drinking buddies. When it won the gold medal at Glasgow's 1989 rose trials, the women of the Royal National Rose Society were said to have called it "disgraceful, vulgar, and coarse."

Nur Mahal: This was the name of the 18th wife of the emperor of India, Jahangir Mughal in the 1600's. She actually had a different name, but when he wed her, he had her named changed to Nur Mahal, which translates to "light of the palace." Apparently, the emperor was so infatuated with Nur Mahal, that he had her first husband killed, so that he could marry her.

There was also a pink HT introduced in 1981 called "Tupperware" ...talk about a bad name!

Tammy


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Tammy, is Tupperware any worse than Weight Watchers Success? Kim


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These are so cool--keep 'em coming (at least 'till I get that neat book).

International Herald Tribune--how ugly.

I think Playboy was considered a scandalous name, too. Wasn't there something about Sexy Rexy being a good pollen parent that contributed to that name?

IIRC, there was an old thread suggesting "truth in labeling"
names, too. Stingy Bloomer, Water Hog, Sulky B****, Bloodsucker, Do Nothing, Underperformer--the posts were hysterical.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

International Herald Tribune was, of course, named for a newspaper. Ironcially, when it came out, Sean McCann related that was the first paper he worked for. Naming them for papers wasn't unusual. The New Daily Mail Rose was the name given to the best new scented seedling, along with a large cash prize. There have been several Daily Mail, Daily Mail Scented and The New Daily Mail. Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

So, he who pays the piper calls the tune--makes perfect sense.

Quick flip though "Modern Roses" brings up: Small Virtue, X-Rated, Sally Pigtail, Restless Native, Satan (what is it about deep red HTs?), Nordic Chant, Nubian (dr HT again), Century 21 (refused ARS registration), By Appointment--all seem a bit odd

Then, what's up with the "Bads"--Bad Fussing, Bad Neuenakr, Bad Pyrmont, Bad Worishofen? I take it "Bad" is a European first name?

Finally, a few of my plants: Worthless, Looking to Die, Squalid, Waste of Time, Barbed Wire, Slashing Tiger, Savage Thorn, Stupid Choice...


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Now you're in my neighborhood! I've long said I should cross The Fairy with Ballerina and call the result Vampira! Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I think we need a list of "Properly Named" and "Truth in Advertising" roses.

Guessing there will be a whole collection with names like:
Rust Bucket
Rusted Out
Really Really Rust
Run from Rust


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Bad is the German word for bath, I believe, and these roses were named for spas with famous mineral waters. I agree that the Germans came up with some awkward names, such as "House and Garden" (also known as Sisters Fairy Tale), or Tantau's "Bernstein-Rose", which would be then called the Bernstein-Rose rose; or Chippendale (early American furniture or a male strip club??). On a serious note, there is "Young Lycidas", which is a loooong poem by Milton about a dying youth. I was forced to study this one in college, and I find Milton dreadfully boring. And "Jude the Obscure" was named after the novel by British author, Thomas Hardy. One of my favorite rose names is the exquisite "Dainty Bess" which fits that delicate lovely thing to a T. I think I'd better stop now. Diane


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Sat, Dec 8, 12 at 6:21

lol, the book didn't say anything about Sexy Rexy being a good pollen parent, but that makes perfect sence! It did mention that "Party Girl" is one of the parents of "Hanky Panky"! I love it!

and Kim, I think that Weight Watchers Success is a HORRIBLE name! :)

Tammy


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Kordes came out with a rose which they named Rosarium Utersum. Not too catchie. Well lately it is being called Seminole Wind..my German is a bit rusty but that is a reach.
In any event robust coral/deep pink, disease free rose which will probabbly be riding off into the sunsetof obscurity. Too bad.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

The registration name for Iceberg is Schneewittchen, i.e. Snow White of the Brothers Grimm fairy tale, not a snow fairy. Hamburger Phoenix was named to commemorate the rising from the ashes of the city of Hamburg after WWII. House and Garden is a British magazine. Atombombe has fallen out of fashion, though.

The most hated German name for Swedes is Leverkusen, because of its similarity to Swedish words. "Lever" means liver and "kusen" may mean either a slang word for horse or a piece of snot. The name is simply that of a German city.


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Rosarium Uetersen commemorates the Rosarium at Uetersen. It's a great rose, very healthy, heavily flowering, light apple scent; roots easily and grows vigorously. EXTREMELY prickly, though. I'm sure the name change was meant to stimulate sales. This is an Arena plant growing in Old Orchard, Valencia, CA. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Rosarium Uetersen


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Kim, I love love that photo of Rosarium Uetersen! How old was that plant? That is one that would look incredible on an old 4 foot chainlink fence and help people decide the street side of the fence is the place to be!


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I don't know the history, but I remember a yellow hybrid tea named 'Benson and Hedges Gold' from a rose book (which I've lent out, so I can't go back and look it up). The only thing that comes to my mind when I hear that name is the brand of cigarettes my grandmother used to smoke -- just about the last thing I'd want to associate with a flower. Does anyone know if there was some other significant reason for naming the rose this?

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Thanks Kippy! That was planted just before Arena went out of business. I'd bought a Reve 'd Or sent out by Ashdown and it turned out to be Renae, which the lawn guy girdled and killed with the weed whacker. It couldn't grow back as it was budded. I wanted Rosarium Uetersen, but no one had it other than Arena, who was only in Paso Robles at the time, operating their local nursery. It cost me $43 for the three gallon plant and shipping for that rose! Thankfully, it grew beautifully. Other than the severe prickles, I really like the rose.

I'd often wondered how anyone raised anything from it as in high heat, there are no sexual parts, everything being transformed into petals. It wasn't until I saw it at a Ventura County Rose Society event years ago, I discovered that in a mild climate, instead of being full pompoms of Peter Max, Dayglo, neon coral, it's a softer, more pastel colored, semi double flower with a center chock full of stamen and golden pollen. Jeri identified it for me as I honestly didn't recognize it. Be forewarned, it is another which would much rather flower than grow. If you want it to develop quickly, it will require disbudding to push the cane growth, but once it does, it can be downright spectacular. This one is budded and it required a season or two to begin covering that wall. An own root one is even slower. I rooted a piece from this plant for the homeowner's daughter's Stevenson Ranch garden. It's been in the ground a year now and isn't two feet tall yet. Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

OFF-TOPIC

Jeri, your picture of 'Happy Butt' looks exactly like the "mistake" rose I've come to identify as 'Belle Story' I received this past spring. I ordered 'Zephrine Drouhin' but got a band tagged 'Zitronenfalter' instead. I was told "sorry, the roses are placed alphabetically in the greenhouse, and someone grabbed the one next to what you ordered" and that I should just keep it as a free gift. When the first baby flower opened, it looked like a washed-out version of your pic, and later flowers were pinker, and with a black licorice candy scent. I went through the whole website and concluded that it was 'Belle Story' and I'm happy with that little "mistake."

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Tax laws the way they are over seas, many breeders work out barter agreements with businesses for the advertising from naming a rose for companies and products. McGredy has been very successful at it. Several breeders created a group they called The Order of the Blue Rose. They'd hold "order meetings" at international rose events, which were, as reported, simply excuses to drink together. Some of McGredy's commercial introductions have been Mullard Jubilee (Electron) named for the British version of Panasonic; Foster's Wellington Cup (Mt. Hood) for the beer (he supposedly received some thousands of cans of beer as his 'royalty'); Courvoisier (cognac); Daily Sketch (newspaper); Liverpool Echo (paper); Nobilo's Chardonnay (New Zealand wine); Penthouse (I wonder! LOL!); Sunday Times (he must have read MANY newspapers!); The Sun (another paper); Typhoo Tea (tea brand); Woman's Own (British lifestyle magazine); Yellow Pages (I wonder?) and I'm sure there are many more. Peadouce (not McGredy's) is a brand of "nappies", their Pampers. Receiving merchandise or services instead of money helps to avoid Value Added Taxes (VAT) and other income taxes. Kim


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

Hi Christopher -- I questioned that myself -- but the guy who gave it to me says the guy who created 'Happy Butt' says that is his rose.

Who am I, to argue with that?

Jeri


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I believe Austin's Fisherman's Friend was named after a lozenge. A throat lozenge, to be precise.

The story as I only vaguely remember it was that there was some sort of charity auction in Britain, and David Austin put up naming rights for the rose as one of the bidding items. Guess who won. Lesson learned. I don't think we should look for a floribunda named Altoid any time soon.

Kay


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

The unusual Austin names come from charity auction winners who get to name an Austin rose (according to Austin's book "Roses"). Kinda cool.
I want the real story behind:
Tipsy Imperial Concubine
That is an inspiration for a novel--just those 3 words. So Eastern in thought.
Susan


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I have a book by Roger Mann "Naming the Rose" discovering who roses are named for.
This book will give a good insight of how many a rose got it's name. From the book I give one example.
'Julia's Rose' named for Julia Clements "the high priestess of flower arrangement"


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RE: History on Strangely Named Roses?

I like Schneewittchen tho Iceberg is locked in my head as its name. It really is such a pure white here it's almost icy/ bluish.

I'd think Permanent Wave was a dumb name if I hadn't seen the blooms with their frilly little crimped look.

Tipsy Imperial Concubine came to mind, too. It sounds silly but my WAG is it's a clumsy translation.

I'd love to donate a public circular rose garden. I'd have various pink ogrs planted on the perimeter with lovely French names--Souvenir de la This, Comtesse de That--then, without comment, the center roses would be Happy Butt. An inside laugh for rose growers :P


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