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rigelcaj

If you were planning your first rose garden...

rigelcaj
11 years ago

If you were planning your first rose garden, lived in northern New England and had a lump of a garden in the front yard, where would you start? I've already got a David Austin catalogue on the coffee table, with every hardy, fragrant, pink-white-red highlighted and listed by dimensions. That catalogue may as well be crack.

The lump is round-ish and about 30' in diameter, with a giant forsythia and a baby lilac on the north, which will stay, and a lot of bee balm, lemon balm, daisies and black eyed susans which will not stay (by hook or by crook). The setting is very casual and cottage-y.

I'd love any suggestions as to how to organize it,roses to consider, and any other thoughts. I already have a rugosa, and it's a perfectly fine beast, but I'm not in love with it the way I'm in love with Scepter'd Isle. I'm thinking primarily pink roses, with some white and just a bit of red for contrast. Fragrance (and why else would I grow something with thorns?) is key.

This may be crazy, but really, why not do it? Thanks for any ideas!

Comments (63)

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    I grow and love a number of Austins, they are hardy, easy to grow and appropriate for a cold zone.

    They get blackspot in my no-spray garden setting, this does not diminish vigor or hardiness.

    They have beautiful fragrances, super fantastic roses.

    Eglantyne is my favorite, a beautiful rose with superb blooms and delicious rosewater fragrance.

    Sharifa Asma is another favorite.

    If you click on My Page it lists my roses, feel free to ask questions if you see one that is of interest to you. I'm not so fond of the myrrh fragrance, most of mine have a classic rosey scent.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    11 years ago

    And if there are deer in your area, prepare for vanished roses and fatter, happier deer.

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Gertrude Jekyll is very thorny so it is best to place it not too close to a walkway. It takes time to mature, but has reliable repeat bloom.

    Eglantyne is tough as nails for me here. It looks a little like cotton candy in full bloom. The fragrance is out of this world.

    Sharifa Asma doesn't typically ball, (The Mayflower can ball in damp weather...)

    The Austins get blackspot and drop their leaves in my no-spray garden setting. They do well, however, and repeat bloom.

    I use organic fertilizers and they seem to like this.

    Many of my Austins are about the size as what's described on the Austin site, but not always. The Austins are in the 3- 6 feet tall range here.

    Some pics:

    Eglantyne as an immature plant, they are larger now. (I have two of them.)

    {{gwi:217749}}

    {{gwi:231667}}

    Sharifa Asma

    {{gwi:233219}}

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    You've gotten superb advice.

    I would add to the list:
    researching/understanding "own root,"
    shopping around (like "my momma told me" - link to help below),
    and adjusting to the idea that it will probably take at least three years before your roses may truly make you "swoon."

    Here is a link that might be useful: some own root austins

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Oh Krista, those are beautiful. They remind me of peonies, my first loves. They can take their time getting established, like the peonies. I already have fledgling lilacs, apple trees, peonies and orphan roses (well, I did spring for John Cabot, but he was lonely and on serious sale) - I'll just add more to the list. I do love watching them grow.

    I don't think I can grow own root Austins - though I'm sure Krista knows better than I - because I think they're not as hardy. And if one comes up some year as Dr Huey, I've got a spot for that too. My orphan Julia Child taught me that.

    Deer will be a challenge, the wretches. I'm surprised the thorns don't deter them. They don't touch my raspberries. The good news is that they also don't touch my apples and dogwoods, now that I've hung chunks of irish spring from them. Not quite the fragrance I'm looking for from roses, but I've at least got the beginning of a plan.

    I have less of a plan for the burrowing monsters under the garden. The dog is a great hunter, and only digs when there are rodents to be had, but still. I'll have to work that out.

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    And a bit of good news - unless you live in an unimaginable place in VT without clay, you really won't have to improve initially, just remove. VT clay is the most fertile soil I've encountered to date. If you go with the own root choice, I'd repot them upon arrival for about three weeks - link below (with my advice about that). And lastly, it is very good to have mulch on hand before reworking the bed. As an area is completed, manure and mulch it. Yea, e'en well afore the roses go in.

    Here is a link that might be useful: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

  • kittymoonbeam
    11 years ago

    Jeri, you should have seen my K. Von Danemark and my others. They were so big! I kept feeding them to try and get flowers.

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Ha ha - I do live in an unimaginable place in VT, Sandandsun! I have the most beautiful loamy stuff, with just a bit of clay along the fence. I'm right above the river in the Champlain Valley - a/k/a the banana belt of VT. After the clay at my old place, I can't tell you how thrilled I was to just be able to stick a shovel in the ground and dig.

    Thanks for the link about potting the own roots. It was interesting not only for content, but because it gave me a glimpse of just how little I know. Luckily winter is long, so I've got time to read.

    Krista, I forgot to thank you for the tips on Gertrude and the others - the pictures made me forget everything. I've definitely got a spot for Gert, but not in the lump. :)

  • jerijen
    11 years ago

    Kitty -- I'd put our Variegata di Bologna up against your K. von Danemark. The thing was ENORMOUS. Also enormous and non-flowering was Henri Martin -- what set him aside from the rest was his solid coating of powdery mildew -- so thick that the few buds he produced could not open. ICK ICK ICK.

    Jeri

  • ratdogheads z5b NH
    11 years ago

    The David Austin catalogue is like certainly crack, but also think of it as a fashion magazineâ¦those gorgeous models don't really look like that without their make-up and fancy lighting. But personally, I love my David Austins.

    As to size - believe what you read about octopus canes. I have never seen another type of rose do such a thing. My first two Austins were Graham Thomas and Falstaff, (not the climbing sports) advertised at 5 and 4 feet respectively. Like you, I assumed in a cold climate I might not get the full height. The first year they were nice polite little shrubs, my only complaint was that the flowers are so huge that canes often sag to the ground.

    The second year GT sprouted unruly canes in excess of 10 feet. I am not exaggerating; I got out the tape measure! I hadnâÂÂt prepared for the need to trellis or stake, but without support it was impossible to prevent breakage. Falstaff was a lot stronger and a bit shorter, but easily double the advertised height. So don't underestimate the need for space.

    My greatest delight so far with Austins has been a long Hyde Hall boundary hedge that we planted last year. What a spectacular sight. They were bare roots planted in April that bloomed continuously from June until November. I highly recommend a mass planting if ever you can fit it in your design.

    Di

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    11 years ago

    You are right to avoid own-root Austins. In order for own-roots to work in the northeast, they have to be either very, very vigorous growers, or cane hardy. Few Austins fit either of those categories.

    It is also a big problem with Buck roses. Contrary to popular opinion, Dr. Buck did not consider his roses to be really hardy. He considered them dieback roses. Most of them really need a rootstock or something. (I did have a couple on order from Pickering to check this theory, but ...)

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Thank you, Rigelcaj. Most of my Austins are grafted on Dr. Huey rootstock. I recommend grafted roses.

    I have a few Austins on their own roots, and many of my antiques are own root.

    This is a pic of Gertrude Jekyll as an immature plant. It's taller now, about 6 feet tall, with an upright habit.

    {{gwi:205470}}

    {{gwi:347378}}

  • jerijen
    11 years ago

    Di -- I'll match you.

    Graham Thomas, here in my area, grew canes 12-14 ft. I could have dealt with THAT, but its refusal to bloom anywhere other than the upper tips of those canes doomed it, here.

    Jeri

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    One of the things you will hopefully learn this winter is that cane hardiness is irrelevant for own roots - what matters is whether they are root hardy.

    Nothing against flatlanders, but one should consider how local/similar others' experiences are. krista_4 seems to be your most valuable resource given your aspirations.

    As a beginner, there is so much to learn really that isn't normally discussed. One example is winter protection. Good questions to ask about a rose are: "do you winter protect it?" "if so, what does your winter protection entail?" "does is have to be undone?" "if so, what does that entail?" And that's just an example.

    Good luck and happy holidays!

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks again, everyone!

    While I'm paying strictest attention to Krista and Ratdogheads, I'll confess some small satisfaction in wanting to grow something that really wouldn't rather be in the tropics, so also (with sympathy!) appreciate Kitty and Jeri's posts.
    Di, your hedge sounds spectacular! If I hadn't already planted a lilac hedge along the road, I'd be tempted to copy you.

    Winter protection is something I'm slightly aware of, and I'll do some research into what others in my area do, so thanks for raising that. I know what my rose-growing friend does, so at least have a start. Actually, I was just looking at my baby Sky's the Limit (a 3'6" baby!) and the orphans and thinking I'd better figure out what to do with them. I know there's a ton on this forum about winter protection.

    Krista, Gertrude J is beautiful! I certainly have a place for a thorny beast that looks like that. If I didn't, I'd evict something and make one.

    I was looking at the DA catalogue again last night and realized that no one had mentioned Gentle Hermione, which is beautiful and one DA says is hardy to z4 and low maintenance (both relative, of course), so the page is well dog-eared.

    This weekend I'll get cracking on the first concrete step of my plan: actually measure and map the lump. This conversation has been so inspiring!

    Chris

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    I used to grow Gentle Hermione, but the fragrance was so unpleasant I had to get rid of it...

    I don't do any winter cover for the Austins. The beds have an even layer of mulch, but I don't mound and I don't cover them. They've been easy to grow in my garden setting.

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Darn it, I'm sorry. You said that before and my head was spinning. I need to print this out. Duh.

    Wow, no cover! yay! I realized this morning as I was checking everyone out (in December, I know. I am crazy) that I'd planted little bulbs around the bases of the orphan roses. I wasn't thinking about protecting the roses at the time. (I was thinking about the 700 bulbs I had to get in the ground, and the soil around the orphans was loose!) (Making mental note to add a few slots for bulbs in the lump, because I know I can't resist.)

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    11 years ago

    Most winter protection seems to be more for the benefit of the gardener than the roses. The big exception seems to be 'garaging' potted roses for the winter. Everything else seems to either have no effect, or a negative effect. It isn't the cold that is the problem. It's what happens when a January thaw hits, and everything is warm and wet.

  • ratdogheads z5b NH
    11 years ago

    Don't listen to me to seriously, I'm a rank amateur - or at least I'm you just a couple of years from now. Six summers ago I happened into a large unruly property buried in every invasive weed imaginable. And rocks, there's a good reason they call this the granite state. First couple of years was killing weeds and culling the ratty old lilacs, forsythia, and orange day lilies.

    Then we excavated some beds, trucked in loam. I planted some colorful floribundas that didn't survive the winter, which put me on a quest to understand rose growing, which turned into a bit of an obsession and well, with what I've already ordered for next year I'll have more than 60 varieties. A lot of those are minis which are great fun, take up little space, and are amazingly hardy. I'm determined not to make this more work than is enjoyable.

    Which brings me to the topic of winterizing. Having lost my first roses to a bad winter (not planting deeply enough) I devoted a lot of energy to winterizing. This year the volume was daunting so I cut back on these attempts and I'm determined that to live in my garden everyone needs to sink or swim. Except for some zone 6 rated floribundas I'm foolishly attached to. So in the spring I can report on how that worked out...I hope there is not too much carnage.

    Some wonderful recent finds for me are this forum, investing in a Help Me Find subscription which affords advanced searching, and using a simple graphics program to map everything out. Three great winter diversions - the David Austin catalogue gets boring after awhile.

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    So mad gallica, you don't winter protect either? Brilliant. (We'll see if I can stand to follow suit next winter - I make no promises!)

    Ratdogheads, I'm absolutely on your trail! I love it. Except that you're much more deliberate. My plants have to sink or swim too, but I do try to stick to things that work in z4(b)/now 5. They are stuck with my soil, with some shovelfuls of old manure. Well, Dr Huey and the rugosa got it straight out of the stall, but they're experimental. And were free.

    Back to planning, though. Do you all leave large gaps between your roses? I dislike the look of stretches of mulch; I prefer plants, even if they end up a little jumbled together. Roses may not tolerate that, though.

    One more: single roses, or groups? I'd rather plant singles, maybe with extra space between them til I see if they live a year. Then maybe add more?

    Oh winter. I'd better get some good gloves for Christmas.

  • jerijen
    11 years ago

    Remember, Rigel, that when you plant young roses (et al) you will see wide spaces between plants, and things will look rather sparse and open.

    That effect will disappear in 2-3 years, as the roses grow up (and out!!!). RESIST the temptation to cram roses together, to make things seem right. (Landscapers do that!)

    Plan your spacing to meet the needs of roses the size they WILL BE, rather than the size they are as babies. (Think of an infant, trying to fill out the football jersey the guy will wear as a husky 18-y-old.)

    For the first few years, fill in with colorful annuals.

    Jeri

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    jerijen is spot on. Can't you just feel what a lovely person she is?

    And ratdogheads briefly mentioned another detail that deserves elaboration with lots of specifics in terms of grafted vs. own root - depth. Got to keep one eye on the hints!

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    11 years ago

    Spacing is one of the most difficult things. A rose described as 4 ft can reasonably be anywhere from 12 inches to 12 feet, depending on the assumptions inherent in the description. What are the growing conditions? How is it going to be pruned? Is it going to be sprayed? The best answers come from seeing the rose locally, and being able to ask about its care. Since that tends toward the impossible, you guess.

    My personal theory on spacing, is to try and give the roses a lot of room, and fill in between with perennials. Since perennials come in practically all shapes and sizes, this turn into a non-planned form of planning. However, I also tend to grow pretty tough roses. They can handle a lot of competition, and my usual problems run the other way. The roses are too much for the perennials to deal with.

    Fussier roses are often a lot smaller, and need excellent air circulation. So companion planting gets a lot trickier.

    ***********

    People get over winter protection real fast after you point out the canker damaged canes that have to be cut down to the ground because of the winter protection. Anywhere that gets reasonably reliable snow cover - that is the best winter protection. It's there when you need it, and magically disappears when you don't.

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I think this is a whole crew of lovely - and generous - people. Thank you all!

    Is it reasonable to think that in 2 years I'll have a sense of how vigorously the roses I plant will grow and so how much room they'll ultimtaely want? I didn't mean to suggest that I'd crowd them intentionally - I'm respectful of distances on the tags - but I feel like there are 2 general types of gardeners: those who want to see mulch between plants, and those who don't want to see mulch. I'm never quite sure of the ilk of whoever writes the tags. As they're only general guidelines anyway, well, huh. Back to trial and error. At least I'm not planning to start off with the fussier roses!

    As for filling in spaces, the word "delphinium" does come to mind. ;) Maybe I don't need any roses other than pink after all. Pink roses, blue delphs, and white something else - maybe phlox, if I can coordinate the bloom time... yum.

    MG - snow is always my favorite winter protection. I've been known to shovel it onto wimpier plants. The lump generally has pretty good cover, if we get a normal winter (we'll see about that). Of course, now that you've told me that, I'm having some trouble sticking to my sink or swim plan with Strauss, who is half buried in leaves that have caught up by the fence at his back. I don't even like peach, but that one's beautiful.

    So we're back to start slow. I think I'll get one of 3 or 4 varieties, and see how they like the lummp. Then work from there. DA design assistance now seems like overkill, huh?

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Since I can't seem to shut up, here's my list. The lump is flexible in size, since it's in the middle of the giant yard and I have a rototiller. :) It's generally oval, about 30'x 21', right now, with the long side toward the road.

    I'm a little confused about the sizes, because DA describes them as well as giving measurements, and they're inconsistent. Eglantyne is listed as 4 1/2x3 and "large"; Brother Cadfael is listed at 5x4 and "medium". Whatever: I'll go by the numbers.

    Eglantyne
    Brother Cadfael
    Sharifa A (I probably should choose between Eglantyne and Sharifa, but might not, just because I can)
    The Alnwyck or The Mayflower (Krista says the latter sometimes balls, but it's also listed as very hardy, and The A is only hardy)

    I think four counts as starting small. I think it's a model of self restraint.

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Elgantyne is about 5 to 5 1/2 feet tall here. I prune it back to shape it, it wants to grow taller... It's about 4 feet wide, with a rounded shape.

    They Mayflower is 5 feet tall, about 3 1/2 feet wide.

    Brother Cadfael is fairly new to my garden, so I'm not sure as to exact height at maturity. The Brother Cadfael at the Mills Rose Garden in Syracuse is about 6 feet tall.

    Sharifa Asma is 3 to 4 feet tall in my garden setting.

    The Alnwick rose is more compact and can be used as a bedding rose or as a shrub type rose. I have three in a grouping, they are 3 to 3 1/2 feet tall and about 2 1/2 feet wide.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    11 years ago

    This is just a suggestion for you to heed or ignore as you wish, but with pink roses I would plant purple roses instead of red which to me would be a jarring contrast. I've just ordered Young Lycidas which is apparently an excellent rose, providing it's suitable for your zone.

    Ingrid

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    I like it. mad_gallica has beaten me to two of my punch lines.
    All that winter protection stuff, if actually required, is just proof that the rose isn't suited to the climate.
    And my favorite use of roses is in a mixed border with perennials, annuals, bulbs, and other subshrubs. My favorite element of a mixed border is that with proper selection, there can almost always be something in bloom. This doesn't usually result in those massive floral displays we sometimes see in photos, of course. But what we don't see are photo after photo of how those massive displays look for the many months after the boom bloom.
    And on that spacing topic, mixed borders also call for more spacing.
    Oh the possibilities! All of which is your choice and to your liking.
    Your question about two years - definitely not. And about the crew - obviously (exceptions, when they occur, are usually obvious too).

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Awesome. Thanks for the size info, Krista, though I'm sure I'll never have half of your success with these guys. I can dream, I guess.

    Not wanting to grow things not suited to the climate is just what prevented me from ever trying roses before, because we were still designated as z 4, and you try to find a reliably hardy fragrant z 4 rose. They're few and far between, if you don't want explorers or rugosas.

    Ingrid, thanks for the thoughts on color. I don't usually mix pink and red either, and the red idea has completely fallen by the wayside.

    I'm not averse to massive floral displays followed by nothing (I have lilac and peony hedges, after all), as long as I always have something blooming, preferably madly. If the lump has forsythia, lilacs, bulbs and roses, with some white phlyox and electric blue delphs thrown in, I think I'll be amused for a decent period of time.

    Wow, I started out with nothing and have pretty well formulated a plan. Thank you all so much!

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    11 years ago

    There are *lots* of reliably hardy, fragrant roses. Entire classes of them.

    They don't repeat. So the peons aren't interested.
    {{gwi:347379}}

    And we all know how horrible the Explorers are.

    {{gwi:213211}}

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Oh dear, I didn't mean to offend. Sorry if it came off that way.

    My only beef with the explorers is that they're not fragrant, from what I've seen, sniffed, and read.

    And when I was limiting myself to zone 4 plants, I found very few fragrant roses advertised. Julia Child is one. Maybe I gave up too quickly.

  • ratdogheads z5b NH
    11 years ago

    mad gallica, is that Quadra? I think I've seen another photo of it here, a tall magnificent plant. Is it supported by anything? What are the light conditions?

  • sandandsun
    11 years ago

    mad_gallica: B E AU TI FUL! I miss siberians as much as peonies, phlox, viburnums, cherries, and ....
    Beautiful!
    Thank you.
    Please tell us about the roses in the photos. Rugosa in the upper one? Therese maybe?

  • predfern
    11 years ago

    Evelyn is a hardy Austin that has not been mentioned. I don't winter protect. However I did have Comtesse de Province (Liv Tyler) once. It survived the winter when I winter protected with a few shovelfuls of topsoil through the middle of the plant but died the next winter when I didn't. Most of my roses are own root so you can grow them in zone 5a. I don't spray either. In addition to Austins, you can also consider Generosa and Delbard roses. Sonja Rikyl, Madame Paule Massad and Martine Guillot are good Generosa roses and Nahema is a good Delbard climber.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    11 years ago

    Yes, that is Quadra. It is growing on a arch, with John Davis on the other side. The leftmost rose is Captain Samuel Holland, the pink blob on the right is Frontenac, and the white blob behind Quadra is a peony, Festiva Maxima. Nothing in my yard gets full, all day sun because I've got a fair number of large trees. Captain Holland probably has the most shade, and is an extremely reliable rose.

    The righthand rose in the first picture is John Cabot. The main pink thing is Oelleit Flammand, a very nicely formed gallica.

    {{gwi:222735}}

    Rigelcaj, your schizophrenia is showing :-) You want good, reliable roses for your climate, but you also want normal Austins. That isn't how the world works. The Austins come with a fair amount of risk. Gallicas, Albas, Spinossisimas, a fair number of Damasks and Centifolias, Explorers, and Rugosas don't have that risk. Your local library should be able to get you a copy of Suzanne Verrier's book 'Rosa Gallica'. If you pick ten roses in there just by pretty pictures, you'll probably get about 9 winners. If you do that in the Austin catalog, you'll probably get about 9 losers. Years ago, when there were rose nurseries in Maine, one of them was trialling a lot of Austins, looking for one that would thrive in a coastal zone 5. The conclusion was that isn't what they are for.

  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
    11 years ago

    mad gallica,
    What a lovely cottage you have--so green, so lush, overflowing with those abundant roses. Thanks for the photo to help get me through winter. Out here in the arid zone, we can only dream about such green. Diane

  • harmonyp
    11 years ago

    Lots of comments in here, but I didn't note any responses to your needing a plan for handling the underground monsters.

    If you are anticipating any underground monsters, do yourself the biggest favor on earth, and line your planting holes with 20 gauge, galvanized mesh. There are some choices in the mesh you buy. It was recommended to me to get mesh with 3/4" holes or less, but I just found it too hard to work with manually, and really expensive in the long run. I ended up buying 1" mesh, and got it from the stucco section of the hardware stores, as I could get 3' x 150' rolls for the same price as 3'x50' roles from the garden section - exactly the same stuff, except one says for stucco. Both the 20 gauge and the galvanized are important.

    I took mine, and for extra protection, cut pieces about 7' long, and bent them in half, so I could lined my holes with 2 layers of the 1" holes. I ended up having to dig out every rose I could (some are too big and I just can't, but I've done most), as after 3 years of no problems, the gophers hit like the plague. I see lots of mounds "near" the roses now, but the roses are safe. Unfortunately I had to dig up all the companion plants I wanted to save as well. They even started going after my geraniums after everything else was caged. And my fruit trees!

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    More thanks!

    Harmonyp, I appreciate the tips on monsters. Mine are of the mole ilk, rather than groundhogs, but they can be pretty destructive despite their small size.

    Mad_g, I readily confess to gardening schizophrenia, but didn't mean to limit my inquiry to Austins. The DA catalogue inspired me, though, and is pretty irresistable. :) I'm now off to google the other roses mentioned to see if they turn my head (and my snout).

    Thanks all, and happy holidays!

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I spent a snowy day following Mad Gallica's advice and branching out in my research, and have come up with an excessively long list to add to my (also excessive) Austin list. I see that you only have a couple, Krista, which makes me wonder if I'm off the mark.

    I'd love comments on the following for my beginner garden. I will probably ultimately limit myself to "very hardy" rather than "moderately hardy" roses, for obvious reasons (zone 5a!). I'd love not to spray, but if I fall in love with it, I'll probably break down and spray it if it really wants it.

    Stanwell Perpetual (Krista?)
    Cinderella Fairy Tale (conflicting reports on fragrance...)
    Comte de Chambord (Krista, don't you have one?)
    Mme Hardy
    Blush Hip
    Viking Queen
    Ispahan
    Duchesse de Montebello

    then the tempting moderately hardy ones -

    Parade
    Felicite Parmentier
    Ville de Bruxelles
    Tour de Malakoff
    Henri Martin (I know it was a flop in - I think - NZ, but that's a bit distant, to say the least)

    I've searched all of them, and almost all have fan clubs (at least of 1 member), but that doesn't help me trim the list! Lucky thing winter is long and has just started.

  • susan4952
    11 years ago

    Austin's.....one of the few reliable roses in my garden. You list some very exotic choices. Sometimes the rare ones are difficult to grow. I am always pushing the zone limit with reasonable success. I must have a microclimate going on because even have tree roses that survive outside. It is a challenge to keep a zone 7 rose alive in my 5 ! I like that! Whatever you choose, make best use of our short growing season to maximize the health of the plant. That is what will give you the most success. And by the way, new dawn is a huge monster that has eaten my house. If you use it in a freestanding plot you will need a very large structure to keep if from rambling on and on. I like the Austin, generous gardener. Many Austin's are shrubs that can be anchored to "climb" up a pretty trellis.

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Your list is good, Rigel. (I prefer repeat blooming roses so I grow Damask Perpetuals, Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals....)

    The Damasks, Albas, Gallicas and Centifolia roses are hardy.

    I love Stanwell Perpetual. It blooms almost continuously. It's very hardy. Mine is 5 feet wide and 3 1/2 feet tall. I prune it so it has an arching shape, and so the blooms don't touch the ground. It has wonderful fragrance.


    Comte de Chambord is a lovely rose as well, with excellent fragrance and beautiful blooms. It gets blackspot and drops its leaves, however, it is a hardy rose. It repeat blooms in late summer and autumn.

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    On the off chance you're not all sick of me, I figured I'd share the verdict. I ordered three from DA today: Eglantyne, Sharifa Asma and The Alnwick Rose. I'll see how they do - and what I come across during summer travels. Thanks for all of the advice!

  • lola-lemon
    11 years ago

    Good luck on your new garden! We are all always learning, I think.

    Here is my advice- drive around, walk around and see what looks good in your neighbors yards. Anything you think looks really nice- shamelessly copy. Take pictures with your phone to help you remember what you like.

    A garden is like a painting we are always touching up even after it is done.

    This post was edited by lola-lemon on Wed, Feb 27, 13 at 20:09

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks, Lola-Lemon, for all of your thoughts, including - maybe especially! - the pre-edit ones. The process you described is just what I've gone through with my other beds. I'm always driving around looking at gardens, and would never have tried delphiniums had my neighbor and a friend not had lovely clumps. My gardens are very flexible. If something's not happy, I move it or give it away; if it's too happy, I divide it or move it, and maybe give some away. The process is fun for me, and the results, so far at least, have been gratifying. I don't have any need to be on the garden tour. All of that is liberating enough that I buy the few things I must have, and then go to our local "crazy greenhouse" place and fill my truck with fun cheap experimental things. It's a nice balance. :)

  • sandandsun
    10 years ago

    rigelcaj,

    You wrote: "... I figured I'd share the verdict. I ordered three from DA today: Eglantyne, Sharifa Asma and The Alnwick Rose."

    Did you get your David Austins? Are they planted? How are they doing?

    I saw your 'Sky's the Limit' good egg post, but you haven't followed up here.

    By the way, the 'Jude the Obsure' I mention in the thread linked below is own root - as are all the roses I planted.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Favorite Easy Elegance Rose

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi!
    I confess that I thought you were all probably tired of me, so didn't update. :) The roses arrived and I tucked them in with a couple shovelfuls of compost (mostly from my horse). They all look very happy: little, but nicely leafed out and budding. I can't wait to see how they smell, but am reminding myself that they're just babies so probably won't put on the full show.

    My orphans are keeping me very entertained in the meantime. One bloomed pink, so is in the same clump as the Austins. I think it's a Buck rose. Johan Strauss is to die for, even if he doesn't match a darned thing, other than, I think, my new Beverly Sills iris (hey, it smelled good). Chuckles has a corner of the garage where she can take over. The there are the 2 reds. One is straight up perfect. The other is more flamboyant: she has pale outer sides if the deep red petals. America? The friend who gave them to me will know. It's very cool.

    How I went from a couple of roses to about a dozen isn't all that clear...

  • jazzmom516 (Zone 6b, MA)
    10 years ago

    If you are looking at any roses, look for fragrance and disease resistance.
    I have Molineaux a golden yellow Austin rose that is fairly disease resistant and has a fragrance.

    Here is a short list of roses that have done well on LI, NY in the County Extension Demonstration garden. If you do decide to do any mail order-- try to get your order in to these companies by December/January at the latest. By the time April rolls around, many of the more popular roses have sold out already. Ordering early 'reserves your rose' and you can request when the company can send it to you-- if you have snow on the ground in April, maybe by the end of April might be better for you. Just put it in their notation area.
    Successful disease resistant and fragrant roses zone 7:

    Prairie Sunrise -- a Buck rose that is a shrub rose and apricot and apricot blend color

    Golden Fairy Tale-- a Kordes rose that is a hybrid tea and yellow color

    Winter Sunset-- a Buck rose that is a shrub rose and apricot and apricot blend color

    Strike It Rich -- a Weeks rose that is a grandiflora and golden yellow blushed with pink color

    Lavender Lassie-- a Kordes rose that is a hybrid musk and mauve and mauve blend color

    Easy Does It-- a Weeks rose that is a floribunda and orange pink and orange red blend color

    Lion's Fairy Tale-- a Kordes rose that is a floribunda and apricot and apricot blend color

    Julia Child-- a Weeks rose that is a floribunda and golden yellow color

    Gruss an Aachen-- a German introduction floribunda that is a light pink color

    Floral Fairy Tale-- a Kordes rose that is a floribunda and pink in color

    Pretty Lady-- a UK introduction floribunda that is pink in color

    Marie Pavie-- a French introduction polyantha that is white in color

    Dart's Dash-- a Netherlands introduction hybrid rugosa that is dark red in color & has great winter hips

    The McCartney Rose-- a Meilland rose that is a hybrid tea and medium pink in color

    Quietness-- a Buck rose that is a shrub and light pink in color

    Carefree Beauty-- a Buck rose that is a shrub & medium pink in color; designated Earth Kind

    Jasmina-- a Kordes rose that is a large flowered climber and pink blend in color

    Belinda's Dream-- a shrub rose that is medium pink in color; designated Earth Kind

    Frances Meilland-- a Meilland hybrid tea that is pink blend in color

    Cinderella's Fairy Tale-- a Kordes shrub rose that is light pink in color

  • rigelcaj
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi all,

    A little mid-summer first season update. The roses I got after starting this thread - Eglantyne, Sharifa Asma, and The Alnwick Rose - are all planted, blooming and happy, but the garden isn't exactly photo-ready, partially because it continues to evolve. I've added three pink orphans whose names I don't know, as well as Winchester Cathedral, which practically jumped into my arms yesterday along with Graham Thomas (who now lives along the fence, not with the pink/white roses).

    Part of the reason the garden isn't photo-ready is that the Japanese beetles and rabbits insist on participating in the gardening. The wretched beetles have helped me get over the reluctance to cut any flowers my mother instilled from birth, so I've had roses in the house. Oh darn! Here's a little picture, of Sharifa Asma, Alnwick and an orphan. I'll work out a better beetle plan at some point, but at least the leaves are all perfect, so hopefully the roses are getting established even if not covered in flowers. My dog did some rabbit control over the weekend, so maybe they'll take the hint. If not, at least they won't move in.

    Thanks again for all of the coaching!

  • growing_rene2
    10 years ago

    I have enjoyed reading this thread and am glad your roses are doing well. I am looking forward to more pictures next summer! :-) Your roses look great!

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