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| On the subject of blackspot resistant roses other than Knock-Outs, it is easy to admit that I have often felt like I'm "preaching to the choir" here. Or to say it differently: like my soapbox was actually a sudsy quagmire. The usually chilly reception of my numerous posts on the subject over my time on these rose forums certainly has regularly reminded me that the pews seem to be empty. But wait, it seems that if one patiently preaches with adequate conviction, determination, and zeal, then at least the choir will sing beautifully! And there may be one or two pews that aren't empty. It's all about healthy (and possibly also beautiful) roses. I am pleased. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 15:15
| Most of my old tea roses don't get blackspot. Jackie |
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| Home Run and Julia Child have excellent resistance and both are better looking roses than KOs. Even though home run is similar looking it's a brighter red and has a lot more bloom than my KO does. Julia Child is not only beautiful but fragrant too! |
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| I don't understand, sand--you've been promoting disease-resistant roses all by yourself and hardly anyone on this forum has been paying attention? Is that what you are claiming? If so, you need to read more posts on this forum (and the Antique Roses forum). Any number of us have been promoting disease-resistant roses for the last 5-6 years (and maybe even longer, if we went back and checked). How have you missed all those posts? Yes, there are some posters that seem to have no interest in disease-resistant roses (it's a free country--they can buy what they want), but there are many interested in disease-resistance and they have been long before your above post pushing the Kordes roses. In fact, if I remember correctly my very first post on this forum--about a dozen years ago--was about a disease-resistant Kordes. I think if you insert "disease-resistant" in the search box near the bottom of this page, you will be overwhelmed with the number of posts that come up. Listing disease-resistant roses has been a favorite pastime for many posters over the years on this forum. Kate |
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| Ditto on what Kate said. MOST of us are interested in BS resistant roses, and pay attention to other posts for our area regarding this. This has been a popular topic for a long time. If someone isn't interested, it's a free world and they may do as they wish. |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 21:32
| dublinbay, "I don't understand, sand" OK, I'll explain. There have been many posts on "disease resistant" roses. Many, many, many, many I'll agree. My "preaching" as it were is in reference to 21st century blackspot resistant roses - of the ADR awarded type. You should look at the thread in which I defend 'Francis Meilland.' It is a great example. I was "not amused" by the posts on that thread. And as I continue to repeat and emphasize, when I refer to disease resistant roses, I'm talking about blackspot resistant roses introduced after 2003. No roses prior to that have comparable blackspot resistance. And many roses introduced since then don't have the resistance of the best ADR roses. There is a significant difference between 20th century discussions of "disease resistance" and the modern definition - for which I am exceedingly grateful. I have not been preaching "Kordes" or "Meilland" or .... There's nothing WRONG about what I said in my original post. It is true. |
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- Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 21:50
| Hopefully, this thread will be of interest: http://www.rosebreeders.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54300 |
Here is a link that might be useful: rose hybridizers recent (on going) thread
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 21:55
| henry_kuska, that's the same link as the "choir will sing beautifully" link. |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 21:57
| And then there's the thread linked below in which I point out that MANY "disease resistant" discussions get input and endorsements from people where that scourge of roses, blackspot, RARELY IF EVER occurs. YET they offer "disease resistant" recommendations QUITE readily in MANY of the historical threads that I agree exist. A "disease resistant" discussion is WORTHLESS "once you cross the Appalachians" headed east. Only a blackspot resistant discussion is WORTHWHILE. And only people in a blackspot pressure area can have valuable input on that subject. A "disease resistant" discussion is NOT the same as a blackspot resistant discussion - hence the name of this thread. |
Here is a link that might be useful: How much store do you put in photos of roses?
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| I hate to tell you, but most posters mean BS resistant when they say disease-resistant--unless they live in California where, I'm told, there is little or no BS. I really can't imagine why you think most posters are opposed to discovering BS-resistant roses, newer or older, or actively resisting you on those issues. I was under the impression that I have been one of the posters pushing Austin's newer, more BS-resistant roses like Lady of Shalott and Munstead Wood, and I'm sure there are any number of posters who at one time or another pushed a particular bs-resistant rose they like. I know Seil has praised Home Run (a newer rose) for its BS-resistance on more than one occasion, for instance. I guess I missed all those posts resisting any kind of info on bs-resistance in newer roses--but such things do not match my experience on this forum. I might add that Kordes roses are not more bs-resistant because they quit spraying--which is what your above post seemed to imply. Not spraying allows them to see whether the new roses have been genetically-bred to be "immune" (or nearly so) from various bs-diseases. It doesn't CAUSE the near immunity. Just in case there was any confusion on that matter. Kate |
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- Posted by jasminerose4u 8b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 23:50
| I appreciate the time the forum members take to give advice and find them to be very welcoming to a newbie like me. When I want to get away from stess of life, I work in my garden. This thread makes me want to go pull some weeds. I hope this photograph of a Saint Patrick cut rose can bring some cheer. I'm from California, but I have read that it's black spot resistant :) |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 0:16
| jasminerose4u, If your post were as pretty as the rose, I would have been impressed. |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 0:18
| To dublinbay's first point in dublinbay's last post: "most posters mean BS" Where did the idea that I think folks who post here are opposed to blackspot resistant roses come from? In my first post in this thread, I am not bemoaning anyone's resistance to the point I've been making. I was celebrating the fact that some are beginning to understand my point. To be very clear, I don't care about the folks who aren't interested in my posts. I'm not posting for them. So why would that matter? A writer is supposed to have "the audience" in mind. Why would anyone think that I was writing about no spray FOR folks that want to grow roses that require fungicides? "I am pleased" isn't clear I guess. It probably means that I'm very unhappy or angry or anything other than I am pleased. I am pleased. And I suppose it is a very good thing that the ADR increased blackspot resistance cause and effect issue was clarified. Some folks just don't understand the simplest things. Or just as often will misinterpret anything and everything given the slightest opportunity. Similarly or maybe exactly like that is the fact that something inferred was not necessarily implied. Even so, I am pleased. |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 0:34
| Oh, the "chilly reception" phrase. Clarification: "chilly reception" originally meant few positive responses, but now that I think of it, maybe there were sometimes negative responses or uncalled for attacks like in this thread. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 1:40
| Jasmine. Thank you for posting your photo, it really shows the beauty of St Patrick. I have on but yours is much nicer than mine. Please disregard any unfriendly comments. Seems someone has an agenda that got tossed at you. |
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- Posted by jasminerose4u 8b (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 2:17
| Sandandsun: Thank you for clarifying your meaning. No attack was intended. Perhaps these words would be more befitting for the Saint Patrick rose: May the road rise up to meet you. |
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| the fact that some are beginning to understand my point. I don't know who the "some" are, but most of the posters on this forum understood the point about bs-resistant roses long before you came along and started "preaching." It did not start with you and I don't know why you thought we were all sitting around in ignorance before you came along with your self-congratulatory thread to 'enlighten" the rest of us. I'm leaving this non-productive, pointless thread now. Nothing more worth saying here. Kate |
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| Jasmine, your St. Patrick is lovely. I grew StP in Jacksonville, NC and found the disease (BS) resistance to be above average. I consider it to be one of the better yellow HTs. I hope you'll continue to post photos of your roses, your photography skills and roses are both first rate. |
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- Posted by wirosarian z4b WI (My Page) on Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 13:10
| One of the big problems with getting good info about what roses are resistant to BS on a forum like this, is that the responses come from all over the USA plus a few foreign countries. The problem is that BS (Diplocarpon rosae) has 12-15 different recognized varieties (called "races") & each garden/area of the world has a different combination of races present. Thus a specific rose in one garden may have no BS problems & in another garden may be a BS magnet. This makes having a discussion on BS resistant sometimes hard to sort thru regarding all the different responses. I have been impressed with the Easy Elegance & ADR roses as being much better with their BS resistance & have been adding several as I find something I like. The other thing I do is shovel prune those roses that are the BS magnets in my yard. I would love to be able to quit spraying, not only for the environmental reasons but because of the extra work & most of the sprays cost a lot of money. |
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| John Starnes (who has lived most of his life in Florida) has for years recommended various China Roses. He reports them as being disease-resistant in FL, as well as tolerant of both sandy soil, and the ?nematodes? that force the use of Fortuniana rootstock for other roses. :-) Of course, if you really wanted to grow Hybrid Tea Roses, that won't help you much. :-) Jeri |
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| Wirosarian, With your climate I would suggest looking into Albas such as 'Konigin von Danemark' or Gallicas such as 'Duc de Guiche.' They tend to be more disease resistant, require less coddling, and are usually fragrant. Sandandsun, Kordes offers roses with good disease resistance. You may also want to curtail your sweeping claim that roses before the 20th century don't have disease resistance. I have many Chinas, Teas, and Noisettes that are spot free even as very young plants. I have up on Modern varieties a while ago. Josh |
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| Far different zone and growing conditions than yours and all of my roses are own root as root stock does not do well for me. I had close to 350 rose bushes here. When I decided to go no spray it took two years to eliminate all take were not healthy. I was left with mostly Kordes, Ping Lim (Easy Elegance), Flower Carpet and a few misc. The midwest has the highest humidity index after the gulf states in the US. So good disease pressure here. However we don't have rust or downy mildew issues here. That I know of. I've had my kordes roses for ten plus years and many have been renamed.Ex.my Petticoat Fairy Tale is a gorgeous apricot orange pink blend. Size is 4' by 4' here starting with no cane in spring. Petticoat is now sold as a white rose. I only ordered the Kordes roses that have won an ADR that said none have ever had any disease at all. As a whole they grow much larger than their stated average size at least here in my yard. Buy Kordes adr roses you won't regret it. Ping Lim roses are sold own root. Don't know if you can get them on fortuniana stock if thats what you need.The best of the best is sunrise sunset (shrub type). Size here is 4' by 8'. All that I've tried are disease free but some have lacked in vigor. Other disease free roses in my yard are- Gartendirektor Otto Linne Kateryna Betty Prior Easy Does It Roserie de l'Hay Cape Diamond- don't prune it or will throw wild growth from every dormant bud on cane- ask if you wish to know more Flower Girl Home run White Out- thou I have heard some have problems mine has been perfect-own root don't now that it matters Pretty In Pink Sunshine Daydream Quietness |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 9:21
| When I refer to blackspot (black spot) resistant roses, I mean roses that lose few if any of their leaves due to blackspot during the course of the season without the use of chemicals for blackspot treatment or prevention. The reader is invited to observe the contrast between my definition of blackspot resistant roses and the answer to this forum's FAQ: "What is a disease resistant rose ?" A link to that FAQ page is provided below. The reader should not be surprised by her or his results with roses recommended as "disease resistant." Especially if those recommendations are from people who live in areas with little or no blackspot pressure or are from someone who routinely treats with chemicals. The chemically dependent results provide no indication of the rose's natural ability without chemical intervention. "Disease resistant" is a meaningless term for anyone who wants to grow roses with naturally healthy foliage in any area where blackspot is common and thrives. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Roses FAQ Page: What is a disease resistant rose ?
This post was edited by sandandsun on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 9:37
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 9:28
| The FAQ question and answer as of August 21 2014: "What is a disease resistant rose ? A disease resistant rose is a rose bush that if it looses 50% of its leaves it will not impair the plants vigor because it has a bred in resistance to that disease." |
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- Posted by Gabrielsyme 6b (My Page) on Fri, Aug 22, 14 at 10:45
| Just wanted to second the 'Julia Child' recommendation. Mine are completely clean and bloom constantly. We're having a very humid and wet summer here in Western PA as well. |
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I live in Middle Tennessee. When you drive here there are signs on the Interstates that say "Welcome to the Blackspot Capital of the World." (It says that in very small type under something about a music capital, so you might have missed it.) Any way in my no-spray-because-I'm-too-lazy-garden the old tea roses are the best BS resistant performers that I have. The modern roses I have that can match their stellar performance are Annie Laurie McDowell, Ivor's Rose, Marianne and Belinda's Dream. All are cleaner than the Knockout I had. FYI the old teas I grow are: Duchess de Brabant, Mme Antoine Mari, Mrs. Dudley Cross, Mons Tillier, Safrano and Mrs. B R Cant. Hope this helps. |
This post was edited by subk3 on Sat, Aug 23, 14 at 15:50
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- Posted by ken-n.ga.mts 7a/7b (wilkis6751@yahoo.com) on Sat, Aug 23, 14 at 22:45
| In my garden here in the humid Smokies I have 1 HT that stays 99% clean all summer long. Remember Me. I don't spray from mid May until late August and this HT stays clean and full of foliage from top to bottom. Another HT that has surprised me by staying at least 75% clean is Louise Estes. Almost all of my other HT's loose most of their foliage by late July. Most of my OGR's and David Austins stay at least 75% clean all summer long. |
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