Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
laura242424

Do growing conditions affect fragrance *types* in your experience

laura242424
9 years ago

... I mean like making a clove-smelling rose smell like licorice, or more subtle but still definite changes.

I've seen a lot comments about how rose fragrance is very very complex, and that moisture, soil acidity, climate, etc. can greatly affect how the same variety smells from place to place.

Personally I've smelled many different roses thousands of miles apart, and I only ever notice a different in degree, not kind. Like sometimes a rose will have no scent, or a stronger scent, and sometimes one note will be more prominent than another, and so on. The rose "Pretty Jessica" sometimes smells like a lot like cat pee in my garden, and sometimes not at all, and sometimes just a little; but I never suddenly smell green apples in it after fertilizing it.

I'm being facetious, but does anyone have specific examples of real smell differences in a variety of rose? Again, NOT differences in degree, or mere absence of a smell you once noticed.

Comments (13)

  • jacqueline9CA
    9 years ago

    Interesting topic. The history on here is that most folks agree that some people can smell fragrance sometimes, others not at all, others all the time. Personally, I have not noticed the same rose changing its fragrance to a different one.

    Jackie

  • toronto.and.brisbane
    9 years ago

    hi: :)

    cat pee???? lol.

    no it doesn't .... hm... i'm going to have to re smell it but I thought it was a wonderful 'old rose' type smell.

    um... do you have cats in your neighborhood?

    hmmm... I haven't noticed any difference between the same roses grown in different locations either...

  • boncrow66
    9 years ago

    I have trouble smelling certain roses and have found after a little research that smelling your roses in the morning is the best time to smell your roses and really capture it's true fragrance. I know in my hot and humid climate that certain roses lose their smell as the day passes due to heat and humidity. And I'm not sure I could tolerate a rose that smelled like cat pee lol. I would be more inclined to think a cat might be using your garden as a litter box, but we all do smell things differently.

    This post was edited by boncrow66 on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 21:18

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    9 years ago

    I've noticed that some roses' fragrances change depending on the conditions in which I'm smelling them -- time of day, time of year, temperature, humidity, etc. I haven't, however, noticed a rose smelling one way for one whole year, and very different the following. I think that in cases where fragrance changes it's mostly because some fragrance molecules evaporate more quickly than others, so an early-day scent will be gone by end-of-day, but some other molecules remain. I don't grow this rose, but I remember comments about "fragrance changes" being mentioned about 'Everest Double Fragrance' as an example.

    Another anecdote for which I have no personal experience has to do with using Epsom salts -- giving some to roses is said to "deepen colors" while at the same time often reducing fragrance. My thought on this is that many fragrances result from the degrading of petal pigments, so anything that helps a rose "hold its color" longer will thus also prevent those pigments from breaking down into scent molecules.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    Here is a link that might be useful: 'Everest Double Fragrance' at HelpMeFInd

  • toronto.and.brisbane
    9 years ago

    wow that is an interesting rose ... 3 fragrances apple/clove and traditional.

    I don't know if it's available in Canada but I would grow it in a pot and bring into the cold room for winter.

  • kentucky_rose zone 6
    9 years ago

    The only change that I have noticed in a rose's fragrance is its intensity.

  • sandandsun
    9 years ago

    If I remember correctly, Tom Carruth agrees that "cat pee" can happen. Use the link the thread below.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Rose scent classifications

  • laura242424
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    That's good to read about other people's experience :) That Everest rose sure sounds interesting!

    To clarify, Pretty Jessica does just have a nice rose smell, but the 'cat pee' element is unmistakably there sometimes, and not from a real cat! Enough that when I asked my husband what he thought the flower smelled like, he came up with the same thing on his own.

    I see online that people have thought that certain lilies, and narcissus, and of course boxwood--and Lancome Tresor perfume!--smell like cat pee; I guess why not roses?

    Here, someone says Le Vesuve rose has a smell they "wouldn't call cat pee" but is maybe something like that. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesant/msg1112003825531.html

    Who knows.

  • boncrow66
    9 years ago

    Well now that is very interesting about the cat pee smell, I learn something new everyday lol. I think I would rather not be able to smell a rose than to smell one that stinks like cat pee :).

  • MiGreenThumb (Z5b S.Michigan/Sunset 41) Elevation: 1091 feet
    9 years ago

    I have noticed aging blooms may change the scent type in at least one of my roses- Therese Bugnet.
    For me, freshly opened blooms are pure, old fashioned rose. As they age through an afternoon, the typical rugosa clove dominates. With excessive wind and time, they have virtually no scent before shattering as all the fragrant essential oils have evaporated away.

    I've also noted that Golden Celebration changes from Tea scent when freshly opened to a pure, sweet lemon scent that reminds me of the way lemon flavoured Pez candies taste.

    Personal observations indicate it's more age and temperature than anything else.

    Steven

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    9 years ago

    Chemistry was never one of my favorite subjects (I much preferred the biological sciences), but one thing I remembered about Organic Chemistry is how similar are so many long-chain hydrocarbons we perceive as various odors or flavors. I may be using two incorrect examples, but I remember something along the lines of one minor change altering "banana smell" to "cat pee smell". When I started working in restaurants and learned about wines, this came up again -- grapes are choc full of various long-chain hydrocarbons which are modified during ripening (depending on climate, soil, precipitation, etc.), fermentation, aging in the bottle, and "opening up" when finally poured (with or without aeration/decanting). This is responsible for a wine's "bouquet".

    At first, I was all gaga about those tasting notes, and the artistry in getting them from the vine to your glass. Later, I became disenchanted when I realized people will pay a lot of money for a finite volume of sensory tickle -- once the bottle is gone, you're done until you buy the next. That evolved into my love of fragrant plants. Much of the same chemistry goes on, but unlike wine, an initial purchase can be enjoyed for far longer. And like wine, a plant's fragrance will be affected by various factors, and be perceived differently according to who's doing the sniffing.

    But as with wine, when hybridizing plants with varied fragrances (like roses), it's very easy to end up producing something many don't find enjoyable. And on the flip side, combining species can result in something unexpected -- such as the "sickly sweet" 'R. foetida' scent being molded into a fruity scent in the early Pernetianas and reemerging in some modern HTs and Floribundas, or the herbal 'R. gallica' mixed with clove 'R. moschata' and linseed oil 'R. fedtschenkoana' resulting in what we call "old rose" or "damask" scent. We may perceive these scents as so strongly different, but on a chemical level, they could very well be simply slightly tweaked mixtures of a few main ingredients.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • laura242424
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Steven, thanks for telling about your roses! I happen to have both of those ones, I'll be extra interested in smelling them this year~ Now that I think of it, I have noticed that roses smell differently as they age, I've just never really thought about it, and probably thought it wouldn't be a difference I could put into words.

    Christopher, thanks for writing all that out! I loved reading it and it gives me more to look in to. Any time you want to write anything more...

    Thanks everyone for your responses; it will be neat to notice more things this summer coming ~

  • laura242424
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I thought of this thread again when I read this online, from an article called 'History of Roses' by Jerry Haynes. Can't wait till the roses come back.

    "Fragrance Footnote: The fragrance of Rosa moschata has a two-part profile of spice/clove (the "musk" element coming from the stamens, especially in a young bloom) and rich, sweet, and not quite fruity but something akin to banana that comes from the petals. It is unforgettable!"

Sponsored
Grow Landscapes
Average rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars8 Reviews
Planning Your Outdoor Space in Loundon County?