What about Ophelia, Chateau de Clos Vougeot, Etoile De Hollande, Gruss An Cloberg, Lady Mary Fitzwilliam, Mme Jules Bouche? Do you think these oldies will thrive in a hot dry climate? What grand oldies have you all had?

The ones I've tried above do great & I love their history. (then, there's all those rose sales going on now...)

I was at the Huntington yesterday and saw many old HTs and floribundas flowering. Some of the bright colors are not what would fit in my garden but I noticed them right away as I walked around. The oldest one I grow is La France ( is this still in the HT class?) That rose flowers consistently through the year and has great fragrance.

Chicago Peace and Medallion would be in my must have group of HTs for color and shape.

Radiance, Chrysler Imperial & Peace appeal to me because they are such important parents. Same reason I'm ogling Charlotte Armstrong (though I wish she were fragrant), Ophelia & the others.

Plus, I hate to see fine old roses go out of commerce. Took me a long time to get a healthy Talisman. I love Curly Pink (a Crimson Glory child) & never would have tried Pink Chiffon (1956 fl) if not for the luscious description in Vintage--& it was one of this year's delights. Thank you for the descriptions.

('La France,' in mid-October, in the Sacramento City Cemetery)

Jeri

Jeri

I grew 'Mme. Butterfly,' sport of 'Ophelia.' It froze out in a zone 7 winter, and patricia43 reported the same in North Alabama. It was not vigorous by modern standards, even though grafted. However, the flower was superbly refined, with thick satiny petals, red stamens, and a complex perfume. Perfection!

IMO, 'Ophelia' set the pattern for modern HTs with compact upright growth, long stems, firm necks, and high-centered flowers with not a lot of petals.

I agree that 'Garden Party' is a fine HT, notably winter hardy for a white. Flowers are huge in cool weather, smaller but plentiful in hot weather.

Frances Ashton, Ellen Wilmott and Cecil are my favorites in the single class. Heck, that's probably not a fair statement as I love Irish Elegance, Fireflame and Mrs. Oakley as well, but Cecil is the one single HT I've made room for in this smaller garden. As I wrote of it over fifteen years ago, it's still the most satisfying yellow modern rose I've grown. I'm eager to see the seedlings of Cal Poly X Cecil flower this spring! I wish the photos of Cecil on HMF were better. I'll have to watch mine to see if I can provide one. Kim

The early hybrid teas on their own roots take some coddling, which most of my roses don't get, but having the beautiful blooms and a part of rose history makes it worthwhile for me.

Ingrid

Bred in the 1890s was supposedly the "Peace" of its time. It's the rose the city of portland planted 10,000 bushes of before WWI and that David Austin used extensively in his early breeding program.

I don't have any experience with it, but happened to read about it recently and was tempted.

Nevertheless, after growing 'La France' and one of its two sports a number of years now, I've come to agree with Brent Dickerson: 'La France' is a Bourbon.

Actually will wait till spring. We are having a mild winter but that could change in a heartbeat. Where she is planted there is some winter protection. Dang no digging in monsoon season.
Merry Christmas all.
Jeannie

Jackie

"Portland has been known as the "City of Roses", or "Rose City", since 1888, after Madame Caroline Testout, a large pink variety of hybrid tea rose bred in France, was introduced to the city. Thousands of rose bushes were planted, eventually lining 20 miles (32 km) of Portland's streets in preparation for the Lewis and Clark Centennial Exposition in 1905."

There isn't a community within 100 miles of PDX that doesn't have at least a few specimens of 'Mme. C' evident in its citizens gardens, no doubt propagated from the original plantings in PDX. When I moved onto the farm I currently live on, there was a plant of it next to one of the barns as well! The plant had obviously been there for decades and was thriving in spite of having received no care whatsoever, not even watering during the rainless 1/4 of the year. This is a sturdy survivor of a rose, and is very handsome in every detail. I've grown dozens of post-WW2 roses, and very, very few still exist in my collection, having been removed because of disease issues, lack of winter hardiness, unreliable performance, or (most often) all of the above. 'Mme. Caroline Testout' is, in my opinion, far superior to most of its kin.

PS: I would add 'Tiffany' to a short list of superior HTs to consider for the modern no-spray garden. This post-war period hybrid is remarkably sturdy, disease free and genuinely beautiful. It doesn't hurt that it also possesses one of the most intense perfumes of its class.

I routinely see body bags of many worthy oldies & find them listed in nursery catalogs (Peace, some of its sports, Tiffany, Medallion, Garden Party, Chrysler, etc.) but not so many of the pre-war HTs like Ophelia, Mme Caroline, Mme Jules, etc.. La France seems pretty available, too.

I would sure hate to see the other wonderful old roses disappear from commerce, though, & I sure appreciate the nurseries that continue to offer them. It's good to learn that they can do well--I'd like to try some.

Does anyone know if they would do good here? SoCal? My relatives mostly live in Portland and my aunt would always want to show me all the roses when I would visit. I would love to have a Mme Caroline in honor of my Auntie Caroline

Peachblow was a vigorous plant which flowered quite well. It also had large, blowsy, intensely fragrant flowers. It arose from the same breeder as Autumn (another favorite) and is a seedling of Mme. Butterfly. I grew everything I could find related to Ophelia and Columbia. Still have Cl. Columbia as a friend had it and wanted to find a new home for it. Pink Dawn also has very large, very fragrant, feminine pink flowers. Polly has marvelous flowers, but on a plant which is significantly easier to maintain budded. You can read my comments about her on HMF. Sierra Glow really does glow. I can see much of both Crimson Glory and Soeur Therese in her.

At RVR:
https://www.roguevalleyroses.com/rose/stadtrat-glaser

At Vintage:
https://www.vintagegardens.com/roses.aspx?cat_id=21

at HelpMeFind:
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.26065

:-)

~Christopher

My favorite rose always changes, depending on what part of the garden I am working in on a given day. This year, when I finally gave Mrs J's HTs a wider bed and better soil, Tournament of Roses just took off and exploded with growth and blooms. The unidentified HT growing next to it has thinner petal substance than the blooms on TOR and fried within a day, while TOR's blooms lasted for several days in intense heat.

Smiles,
Lyn