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lynnette_gw

An old setigera rambler Baltimore Belle

lynnette
11 years ago

Baltimore Belle blooms it heart out. So much that even large mature canes bend over.

Comments (69)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    8 years ago

    It's very interesting that you got yours from Peter Beales, and that's how yours looks. The picture they show on the website for Baltimore Belle is a different rose -- and is what I meant about there being something different in the UK. Perhaps they corrected their stock but never corrected their photo. See link below.

    http://www.classicroses.co.uk/products/roses/baltimore-belle/

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    8 years ago

    Thanks Oldrosarian! :-) I knew it, there was a repeat one! :-) Oh, now I have to knock on all the nurseries doors see if theirs were from Peter Beales. A long journey but it's possible. If I find one I will root one for ya Chris! :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Again, I think this is a climate-induced extended bloom, rather than a true repeat-bloom. What I've noticed here is that high Summer temperatures will end bloom time for true non-repeaters. Where Summers are mild, bloom time may be extended, giving the illusion of repeat. I don't think the PNW gets as hot as it does here, and oldrosarian's 'Baltimore Belle' may simply be having extended bloom. Roses that start after the main flush -- like the Setigeras -- can give this illusion.

    FWIW, the first year my 'Baltimore Belle' bloomed -- 2014 -- the bloom time extended longer than it did in 2015, also offering "scattered blooms" into August. In 2015, it was more concentrated, but still lasted a month. I think this may have been because Summer 2014 was a bit wetter and cooler than Summer 2015.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • oldrosarian
    8 years ago

    Peter Beales Baltimore Belle is accurate but alas his photography isn't. A fault of many nurseries in their catalogs.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    8 years ago

    I just checked their website, it didn't say anything like once bloomer/repeater. So I emailed them to find out. :-) How do you order from UK? How expensive was the shipping? I am just wondering.....

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    8 years ago

    Rogue Valley Roses has it.

  • oldrosarian
    8 years ago

    Once upon a time I was an idiot. I thought that if I didn't buy the OGRs that I wanted from him, I would always wonder if it was the correct rose.I blush to tell you what it cost to get it through customs and into Canada. I have never told people that asked that it cost 5 times what I could have paid getting the OGRs from the States.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    8 years ago

    Thanks Sheila and oldrosarian. I saw it on RVR site, it listed as a once bloomer. I emailed Peter Beales asking about the repeating part and shipping. haven't heard from him yet. It's a such a beautiful rose, I'd love to see it repeat......and HMF has a repeat version. I won't pay 5 times more, it doesn't matter if he won't email back. :-) I have some bare root roses coming tomorrow, I have to plan where to dig more holes.......found a Nahema!!! It's on its way here, have to prepare a pot for it, it's too cold here to plant Nahema in the garden, it will be in a pot forever. :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    There are some Hybrid Musks which DO repeat, and can look a bit similar to 'Baltimore Belle'. I'm not saying DON'T get BB, since it is really beautiful and healthy. But you may want to take a look at, oh, 'Bubble Bath' or 'Prosperity' for starters.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Thanks Chris, will try BB, Bubble Bath and Prosperity in the future. Now I have City of York, Alchemist and Paul's Himilayan Musk landed here. Really hope City of York repeats a little, and these monster ramblers bloom at diff times to have beautiful shows through out summer.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    My 'Baltimore Belle' starts just as the other roses finish their first flush. If you want variety in bloom time among ramblers, pick ones bred from different rambling species. From what I remember offhand, the Wichuranas go after the Multifloras, for example. And I think the Setigeras go after that. But I'm not sure, so hopefully others will chime in.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • Rosefolly
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I used to grow Baltimore Belle. It followed the pattern others have reported, throwing out the odd rose or two now and then after the flush had passed. There are any number of once blooming roses that can do this. Our climate confuses them. Ray Reddell used to report that some albas (I think it was albas) would put forth a few roses in the fall in San Francisco. I myself have seen a light repeat on Cl Cecile Brunner, the real one, not Spray Cecile.

    I believe it to be an artifact of the weather, like having fruit trees bloom at the wrong time of the year due to an unexpected warm spell.


    I also should mention that there are a couple of blooms on my Arcata Pink Globe right now. It is youngish, and growing in a difficult location. This is the first year it has bloomed. But that fits right in with it blooming around with Baltimore Belle does.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    7 years ago

    I like Christopher's suggestion of various lineages to extend rambler blooming season. I don't have a huge data set of ramblers here (like, 3), but the different ones I have do start at slightly different times, about a week or two apart. The first to bloom is an Ayrshire type (R. arvensis lineage, "Jekyll's Own Rambler"), then the Wichurana type ('Apricot Glow'), then the Setigera type ("Arcata Pink Globe"). "Arcata Pink Globe" had a few off-season blooms, once, but I wouldn't consider any of mine old enough to make any real judgment on that point.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    That's a great idea indeed. Not sure about these two, can't find any rambler type on HMF: Paul's Himalayan Musk, Alchemist...... I know City of York and Frau Eva Schubert are Wichuranas. I think Paul's Himalayan Musk would be first, Alchmist 2nd, then City of York & Frau Eva Schubert. Am I right?

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I took a few pics after today's garden chores, and I'm sharing some of 'Baltimore Belle' as it's growing into a dying Japanese maple in my front "yard". But before I post those, let's step back a bit.

    The pic below is from late May of 2015, just before it started blooming.

    Later in the season, it sprouted laterals from that upward growth which spilled outward. The pic below is from September 2015.

    Those laterals continued to extend, and here it is two months later, in November 2015.

    So rather than leave it this way, I tucked and weaved those laterals back into the upright growth, sort of spiraling around the trunk. Now it's much bushier against the tree. The pic below was taken almost a month ago, on April 3, 2016.

    It's continued leafing out, and the two pics below I took today.


    Last year, a new cane emerged after the bloom season, and gradually extended to about fifteen feet. I tried capturing it, but as the tree has leafed out, I couldn't see it in a pic. You can see part of it just to the left of the living left fork of the tree, in the last pic. It continues up into the branch pointing toward the neighbor's house, then splits into three tips, which I spread into different directions. Hopefully each of those tips will also send laterals, and I'll get a canopy of 'Baltimore Belle' at the top of the tree. Growing at the base of the tree facing the walk to my front steps is the rose "Huilito", which grew a few long canes last year. Well, long for "Huilito" -- they're about 18". I wove them into 'Baltimore Belle' on that side of the trunk, leaving the shorter bushier growth of that rose to spill forward. Oh, and my clematis 'Sweet Summer Love' has FINALLY reached it's "leap" year, and is ascending into 'Baltimore Belle' in multiple directions. That will bloom in clouds of fragrant tiny red-purple blooms in late Summer into Autumn.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Ok Chris, you got me, I have to have a BB!!! :-) Where did you order yours??

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    Mine came from Vintage Gardens, but I've seen it carried by other nurseries.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Thanks Chris. Good luck with rose midge this year. Bioneem helps if you needed. I know you don't spray chemicals.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    7 years ago

    Rogue Valley Roses has just listed BB as being newly restocked in an email -- though it still shows as out of stock on their website.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Thanks catspa, I try not to order from RVR, their cost per band is high ( plus shipping)........

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Judging by HMF, there are shockingly few sources for Baltimore Belle left in the U.S. and, even there, though Roses Unlimited and Angel Gardens are both shown as having it, it does not appear on the lists on their websites. Let us know if you find it, summers rhythm! It seems like such an old standby that it's hard to believe it has become scarce.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    OK, to tempt you further, I snapped a few pics while standing on my front porch. I tried to show where 'Baltimore Belle' is poking out through the canopy of the tree, all from the cane that shot up last year. If you look at the last pic in my previous post, note the living side of the tree, and the branch that points toward the neighbor's porch. That's the part where these pics show. Look for green rose leaves against the plum-colored maple leaves.




    You may want to click the pics to enlarge them, and look carefully. I imagine when it blooms, picking out flowers among the leaves will be easier. But that probably won't start for another month.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    My goodness, it's a tree hugger! Can't wait to see it in bloom!! :-) How old is your BB? All the bands in your garden grow so fast, like you watered them with Mountain Dew......... :-)

    Catspa, I will post here when I find it. :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    My BB came as a band from Vintage Gardens in Spring 2013, and was potted in a 2gal container. And in that container it remained, until Spring 2014, when I planted it where it is now to replace a dead 'Jaune Desprez'. Back in 2013, my potting mix recipe wasn't the same as it is now, but BB still grew really fast.

    It's on my list for propagating after the first flush, so like I said before, I'll send one to you if you can't find it elsewhere.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks a ton Chris! :-) It's only 3 years old?! I'd have to dig out your magic potting mix, I bookmarked it. I kept last year's bands in unheated basement for the winter, just planted most of them in the ground this weekend, they weren't happy in the basement, I lost 3. More bands are coming from Linda and Burling. It's time to try your mix if I can find all the stuff, I'd love to have the bands grow fast and plant them in the garden by Aug/Sept. :-)

    Please keep us updated on your BB! :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The "magic mix" is simple -- 3 gallons peat moss, 1 gallon Bovung dehydrated manure, 1 gallon vermiculite, 1 gallon perlite, 3 cups Espoma Garden Tone, all mixed in a wheelbarrow. With the last batch, Home Depot was out of the Bovung but had Black Kow composted manure, which is half the strength. So for that batch, I used an extra gallon of Black Kow and one less gallon of peat moss. Measuring is easy, since I have 1gal buckets.

    I line the pots with a used coffee filter to block the mix from spilling out but still allowing water to drain, albeit more slowly. Newspaper will do the same trick -- you'll likely get a bunch as packing material with your rose orders. Newly-potted roses soak in a bucket of water for about fifteen minutes -- dry peat moss takes some time to get wet. I use two buckets -- pot the first then leave to soak as I pot the second, then leave that to soak as I pot the third, then remove the first from the bucket and soak the third, and so on down the line. I also finish with a thin layer of used coffee grounds on top. Then they're set out to get sun, watered to be kept at least slightly moist between the rains, and otherwise left alone until being planted at the end of Summer.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Thanks Chris! Going to the HD soon to collect all these stuff. :-)

    Lowe's has Heritage in 1.5gal pots for $12.98. I ended up came home with 12 , I cleared out all the Heritage in that store. :-) If you need any check out your Lowe's.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Ha! Thanks, but no thanks.

    :-)

    I did some pot-reorganizing today, grouping the cemetery's stuff by type and separating out the handful I got for myself this year. Then I planted my six musk strawberries, and three roses -- 'Sweet Chariot', "Lindee", and 'Denise Cassegrain' -- in the border along the side of my house. When I went to the back yard again, just for fun I counted how many plants-in-pots I still have. If in addition to the roses I include five blueberry bushes and the various strawberries that will live in pots, I counted 111 pots. And my orders from Long Ago Roses and Roses Unlimited still have to arrive, as well as about six from High Country Roses that weren't ready to ship with the others I got a few weeks ago. So no more roses -- for now.

    ;-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    That's a lot of pots!!! :-) You will buy more roses this summer, I am 100% sure, by fall you'd have 200+ pots...... :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Probably -- there are a few more Polyanthas I want for the bed on the side of my house. But I need to wait until I get some of these roses off to the cemetery before I have room for any more pots -- especially considering there's another 30 or so coming this month. I'm going to have Brian, the cemetery caretaker, come by during the first flush to pick things out. Then they'll continue to grow on here before getting planted there beginning in August.

    :-/

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Chris, what if people pull your roses out in the cemetery? You put in so much work into this project, people aren't all nice.......you might need security camera to watch over those roses......have you thought about that?

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    The cemetery is attached to a church, and caretaker Brian lives in an attached apartment. Essentially, the cemetery garden is his back yard -- and during the growing season, he's out there just about every weather-permitting day doing something. There are also some benches where people sit during the day, and it's in a busy part of town. I'm not worried.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    You have a rose keeper Brian on site, that should be really safe for the roses. :-) Good luck with your project! Our town's senior center had so much trouble to keep roses (blooms), some seniors won't stop cutting all the blooms. The rose keeper was a member of our rose club, he was very upset. After the rose keeper passed away, the rose garden was gone. I was going to volunteer this year, but by the time I remember to call them the garden was gone with the wind 1 year ago. They should set up an electric fence, zap, zap, zap! If I was their rose keeper, I'd love to zap those people........I might have to learn how to do CPR ( after the electric zap they might need it)........

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    7 years ago

    When I was a gardening child in Minnesota, it was my Dad who picked my Hybrid Tea roses on his way to work to give to the secretaries. I had to take it as a compliment. Makes me smile.

  • swamp_rose
    7 years ago

    Christopher: I look forward to seeing pictures of your cemetery project. How are the plantings from last year doing?

    BB is such a beautiful rose - I don't have a live specimen, but do have this late 19th century plate from a rose distributer, a treasured gift from DH, which states it is "compact and double; hardy, and one of the finest climbing roses grown"

    cheers!

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    Oh, the only thing I planted there last year was a 'Lavender Lassie' I received in error. It's growing quite vigorously, but probably won't get to the size I envisioned until at least next year. The other "plantings" from last year were some I put in my tiny front yard, and some against the neighbor's house. Thus far, all from the front survived, but 'Leonie Lamesch' had all but one stem broken from snow piles. It's growing back now, though. On the side border, I think I lost 'Louis Philippe'. I'll order another and see if it gets some size before Autumn. If not, it'll spend Winter in my back porch, and be planted out next year. All the other Chinas there made it, but 'Louis Philippe' was the only one NOT against the house. Where he went, behind him was just open space under a raised front porch. I think that did him in -- plus he never generated any fat new growth, just elongating his baby canes.

    It's been cold and rainy lately, and no roses have bloomed yet, but here's a shot I took a few days ago of the front bed. Since I took the pic, I lifted and divided the lamb's ear, leaving one small division kinda in that spot but a little further back, giving room for the creeping phlox to spread further. I'm filling the gaps with annuals this year.



    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • sam_md
    7 years ago

    Does anyone here live in the Capital area? If so, you know about the Greenspring Gardens Plant Sale held tomorrow in Annandale VA. One of the vendors will be selling 'Baltimore Belle'.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Did you go to that sale? It sounds fun. I bought a Baltimore Belle this weekend, so happy!!! :-) It's not a band, so it should grow fast, hope it can catch up with Chris's in 2 years. :-)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    summersrhythm -- Start the clock, because 'Baltimore Belle' wants to start blooming earlier this year than last year.



    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    My goodness, it's time!! :-) So happy to see the photo, cheering me up, working today.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Here is mine, no buds yet......I should have some......it blooms on old wood, and I do have 10-12" old wood......

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    7 years ago

    It blooms late. After the main flush of most roses, but before the species setigera.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    Here, "late" means by just a few weeks. But this year, mine seems raring to go already.


    :-)


    ~Christopher

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    'Baltimore Belle' has entered the stage.



    :-)


    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    It's beautiful! I have to plant it in the front yard for show and tell........mine has some little buds now! :-)

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Mine is in bloom......

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    7 years ago

    Mine opened its last set of blooms about a week ago. Last Friday I finally got around to deadheading anything I could reach without a ladder, and trimmed it back around the trunk of the tree. Anything higher up I just blasted with the hose to knock off crispy blooms. In the meantime, the Clematis 'Sweet Summer Love' I planted next to it has climbed nearly to the top of 'Baltimore Belle' in a few directions. I'm hoping this will be the first time it actually blooms. I planted it in Spring 2014, so this should be its "leap" year.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Chris, How long was the blooming time this year? 2 weeks? I really hope mine repeats..... I planted it in a good spot with full sun, facing the chilly wind though, but it's hardy to zone 4b per HMF, it should be cane hardy here in zone 6a. I have other repeat ramblers and climber nearby just in case it won't repeat. A long wait to "leap year"....... hope it will be just like yours! :-)

  • modestgoddess z6 OH
    7 years ago

    Chris you did a great job of wrapping it around that tree

  • Dave5bWY
    5 years ago

    Chris, your BB looks incredible! How is it doing now? I have been narrowing climbers/ramblers to grow up my dogwood tree and this is one of the top three. What’s funny is I purchased Sweet Summer Love clematis at a nursery offering all plants 1/2 off right now to grow up the tree as well. Has it bloomed for you yet? I hear it takes a bit to settle in.


    Summersrhythm - how is your BB doing?

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