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best repeating Austins for warm climates

Posted by kittymoonbeam Sunset 23 So CA (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 29, 12 at 1:39

My best repeaters so far are-
Tamora
Abraham Darby
Charlotte
Ambridge rose

Pretty good are-
St. Cecelia
Heritage
Fair Bianca
Shepherdess
Huntington
Sharifa Asma

Jude Obscure had one good spring bloom and then two modest repeats last year but smells so divine!
Kathryn Moreley is heaven sent to look upon but only puts on one big show in spring and maybe a flower now and then in late summer or fall. If the flowers get rained out, that's it for the year. Same goes for the divinely scented Othello. I have room for just a few more where I removed some declining OGRs.
I was thinking about Evelyn or Eglantyne or another sort of pink that might be able to hold its own among these other big plants. Little Shakespeare got swallowed up and had to be moved. I need at least 2 big upright growers and would like something that blooms ok in a dry warm situation if possible.
The rest of the area is big Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals and a large 5x6 Sonia Rykiel. A big Cinderella Fairytale in the corner next to a large Pomponella. I tried Mary rose and sharifa asma but both were too small and got moved to the front next to Tamora and Bianca. I could plant more Ambridge, but would rather have something new.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

This isn't an Austin, but it has a similar look--St. Elisabeth of Hungary, aka �rp�d-h�zi Szent Erzs�bet eml�ke. It gets big (can be grown as a climber or *large* shrub). I got a band from Vintage this past fall and it has bloomed repeatedly for me. Repotted into a gallon size pot fairly soon after arrival as it grew so nicely and moved it up to a 3-gallon size pot today (haven't decided on its garden spot yet). Blooms are very, very fragrant and last well. Foliage is dense, dark green, and shiny. Impervious to everything so far in my climate. It is a new and wonderful standout IMHO from Mr. Gergely Mark in Hungary. Vintage is generous with praise for this rose.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: St. Elisabeth of Hungary on HMF


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Lady Emma Hamilton is my best repeating Austin.
So much so, that I have ordered two more.
Golden Celebration is also a good repeater, but needs a little shade in the hottest part of the day.
Teasing Georgia is also a good repeater and can take all the hot sun.
Daisy


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Sophy's Rose is an extremely fast and heavy repeater, can match any small plant that bears large flowers. We don't have extreme heat, though; usually 80s F.


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Hi Kitty: Thanks for the info. on repeat Autstin performers. I planted Eglantyne own-root this past summer. Some mentioned that it's a fussy grower, and I agree. The Eglantyne at my zone 5a Chicagoland rose park gives 5 blooms per bush in the spring, versus Krista's over 80 blooms per bush, zone 4b New York.

I don't know what's the secret to Eglantyne's success? More acidic soil perhaps? Hoovb posted a pic. of Evelyn in her sunny CA, and it's loaded. I already bought Evelyn for this spring.

Kitty, you mentioned Sonia Rykiel as 5 x 5 - I already ordered Sonia Rykiel (but still can change). I didn't know that she gets that big, does Sonia make good cut flower? I planted Radio Times this summer (got lots of cut-flowers). Someone in Australia gave it a 10 for damask fragrance, and I agree. Radio Times is medium to dark pink and many times more vigorous than fussy Eglantyne.

Please let me know whether or not Sonia Rykiel lasts long as cut flower, many thanks.


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We've planted and removed more Austin roses than I care to think about, so we no longer do that.

HOWEVER . . .

PROSPERO blooms year 'round, here in Camarillo, CA. It is blooming now.
NOTE: We do not prune this rose in any conventional sense. We treat it like a China, basically. It IS looking a little ragged, so as soon as the wind isn't blowing 50 mph, I will trim it up, very lightly, removing any dead growth and retained dead blooms.

GOLDEN CELEBRATION repeats through the year in successive "crops." If not deadheaded, it won't re-bloom much. If deadheaded, it does.
In our conditions, it does not respond well to shortening of canes, but it does in the winter receive a heavy deadheading, with removal of the old foliage -- so right now, these 6 plants look beautifully bare and sculptural.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Melissa, I am only collecting teas at the moment (well, almost only) but you have really enticed me with your description of Saint Elisabeth of Hungary. The pictures don't hurt, either. I have no idea where I would place it, but Mendocino Rose tells me that I need to keep a stock of replacement roses in reserve should something go wrong. How big does it get for you? And just how impervious to disease is it? And do please tell me about its fragrance.

Rosefolly


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Hi Rosefolly: Tammy grows Saint E. of Hungary in Tennesse - she posted a nice picture in Rose Gallery. I asked her about fragrance, and Tammy said "yes".


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Sonia Rykiel in a vase....well I don't cut them so I can't say. I just put the chair next to the bush and lean over and enjoy that amazing perfume. The color+shape+perfume is something that I would have designed myself if I wanted to create a rose. How would the flowers go in a vase because they are in clusters and so big and heavy the way they pull down the canes- wouldn't the vase just tip over anyway? I think they last a long time on the plant so I let them stay because I want to enjoy them as long as possible!


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In my experience if a rose lasts long on the bush it will usually also last long in a vase.

If I might suggest another rose that isn't an Austin, there's Belinda's Dream, a fragrant rose with huge pink blooms that do well in the heat. I have two of them, and they're carefree and beautiful. The flowers also last long in a vase.

Ingrid


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We have hot dry summers here, and Evelyn and Brother Cadfael probably do best in the heat, repeating pretty well. Jude the Obscure repeats very well, but the blooms wither and shatter quickly in the heat. Golden Celebration also repeats well, but hates the heat. I have grown several Eglantynes and the blooms crisp and fall apart badly when it's hot. One Austin I have great performance hopes for is Young Lycidas. It's only had one summer here and bloomed constantly, and the blooms did hold up well. Hopefully, this will continue. I'm looking forward to trying Princess Alexandra of Kent and Munstead Wood this spring. Diane


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When I lived in San Clemente, the English roses that bloomed best for me were probably Comtes de Champagne, which bloomed non-stop throughout the year; Sister Elizabeth, small, perfect, old-rose scented flowers with a touch of lavender colouring; Tamora (although it did get some rust), which had a lovely scent; Heritage (also rust), nearly always in bloom; and Jude the Obscure, perhaps my favourite English rose for it's incredible scent.

A non-Engliish rose that I would recommend is the Romanitica rose Yves Piaget, amazing scent and the flowers bloomed non-stop. In too much sun it could fry a bit, but I'd grow it in a second in a warm climate.

Cheers,
robert


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Hi, I translated for you 2 feedbacks on Golden Celebration from the site of an Israeli nursery:

1. An amazing rose. Every rose lover must buy and grow such a rose. Strong, blooms nonstop plus an intoxicating fragrance. (Beersheba)

2. I planted two saplings last year and this year they're full of buds, extremely healthy and particularly promising. It seems they prefer a bit of protection from the daylong blazing sun. (Haifa)

On David Austin's site GC appears in the category of 'Shrub Roses for Partial Shade'.

I planted one in partial shade 10 days ago in view of these recommendations. I think it probably repeats well in warm climates but should be protected in midday. I think the ideal condition for it is morning sun & perhaps some late afternoon sun as well.


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WinterCat, that's how we grow Golden Celebration. Morning sun, afternoon shade.

And it occurs to me that I should mention that Prospero crisps in hot, DRY weather. So did The Squire. So those with desert-like conditions might avoid those, OR at least provide afternoon shade.

Jeri


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Bianca wasn't a good rose for me until I moved her to early morning sun and quit pruning her. Now I just tie the canes to bamboo stakes where I want if they are too tall. Breaking off old blooms works the best. This rose has done so well since I put away the pruners.

Brother C. looks really good. I need a big rose for one of the spots between a Kathryn Moreley and a Baronne Prevost. I did try W. Shakespeare there but it never got enough height.

Charlotte takes the heat and the midday sun well and Ambridge looks best in morning sun. Abraham likes the full sun just fine. He looks great right now in front of my tangerine tree. I had St. Cecelia in midday sun but the colors are better in morning sun. Same goes for Sharifa Asma. That's the dilemma isn't it- who gets that coveted morning sun spot.


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Some of Austin's climbers can also be grown as taller shrubs--or is it that they are taller shrubs that can also be grown as climbers? Oh, well, you get it.

Anyway, I've ordered two climbers for spring that fall into that category: Austin's The Pilgrim and Austin's St. Swithun. If I remember the catalog descriptions right, they are disease-resistant, good re-bloomers, and can handle the heat.

My region is so different from yours that I hesitate to make too strong a recommendation--though I'm very excited about getting both of them.

Kate


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  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 20:17

Molineux and Sophy's Rose. 'Molineux' keeps up with 'Iceberg', which is saying something. 'Bishops Castle' has been surprisingly good as well. I usually don't get great repeat from Austin's pinks, but this one has been impressive. Powerful heavenly fragrance as well, which 'Molineux' and 'Sophy' don't have.


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I'll second hoovb's vote for 'Molineux'. It even has a few flowers on it right now, plus a number of buds coming along. It keeps right on blooming throughout the summer as well. It does get a bit of black spot in my climate, but not more than I can live with.


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  • Posted by alameda 8 - East Texas (My Page) on
    Sun, Oct 28, 12 at 11:35

I was interested to read the comments on keeping Golden Celebration out of the hot afternoon sun. I have one on my front fence that gets full all day sun. It has been there 5-6 years and spits out a few blooms but has never thrived. After reading these posts, I plan to transplant t to an area that gets good morning sun and afternoon shade. Interesting thread.....does anyone have comments about Graham Thomas? I have a big healthy bush that wont bloom. Its in full sun, well mulched and watered - beautifully healthy but hardly any blooms. Very frustrating? Any ideas on the secret to getting this one to bloom?


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Alameda, For What It's Worth . . .

Graham Thomas and Evelyn were two long-caned Austin roses that, in our coastal SoCal climate, grew like mad, and bloomed very little.
Lots of plant -- scanty bloom.
Evelyn was even worse than Graham Thomas.

Syl Arena told us that, in Austin's garden in England, Graham Thomas was a mannerly, upright, 4-ft-or-so Shrub, with lots of bloom.

For the most part, we have succeeded best with the smaller Austin roses -- tho all of them want more water than is probably ideal, here.

Jeri


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Strawberryhill - where'd you find Sonia Rykiel to order?


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my best Austin repeater is Scepter d'Isle hands down!! constantly in bloom and a great scent to boot!!


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  • Posted by alameda 8 - East Texas (My Page) on
    Sun, Oct 28, 12 at 23:01

I am not a shovel pruner....if a rose is alive and thriving....I wont dig it out. But Graham Thomas....after what Jeri just said - I cant see letting it take up a spot that is "prime real estate" and near my house, where its neighbors Dixieland Linda and About Face [which was a Chamblees sale bin rose, now HUGE and blooming these gorgeous luminiscent orangey blooms that I adore] are blooming their heads off. I am not going to ditch it just yet....if it wasnt so very healthy....getting rid of it would be easy. It is one of the healthiest bushes I have - just NO bloom! I have doused it with double strength Carl Pool BR 61 like Chamblees said. Next year I may hit it with an arsenol of fertilizer recipes.....if I kill it - justifiable homicide!

I just looked at an Austin today that is simply covered with blooms, and one I dont hear much about - SISTER ELIZABETH. I whacked it back several years ago, it doesnt get huge and just has blooms all over it! They arent magnificent specimens or paragons of exquisite perfection, but they are lovely medium pink confections that are all over the bush and I really like it! It beats Graham Thomas hands down!! I do like the Austins and want to keep trying them to see what works well for me.

I find James Galway to be a stalwart shrub, blooming all over the place in the spring, sporadically in late summer and fall, but holding up well in one of the sunniest, hottest places in my yard - same with Scepter d'Isle. I am moving Golden Celebration - it is a wimpy, shrimpy thing - may need more shade than it is getting.

I do like the Austins - but am finding that, like the nursery rhyme, when they are good, they are very, very good. When they are bad - they need to be shovel pruned. Pat Austin has never done well for me and I am tired of trying to figure out what she wants. Am trying Lady Emma Hamilton and Lady of Shallot. Already adore Carding Mill, just got another one of these.

I just havent figured out how to become adept at shovel pruning - unless the bush dies on its own. But if Graham Thomas survives the onslaught of Carl Pool BR 61...and still doesnt bloom, I am going to hit him with everything I can think of next spring - and if he dies, he dies. Not putting up with roses on welfare - bloom or leave!


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This year, Ambridge was the rose that repeated the most and Scepter'd Isle got to be big enough to repeat bloom well. I think it's going to be a good rose. Right now it grows long arms and reaches out wide rather than growing up. Shepherdess had some really pretty blooms this fall. Another thing about Shepherdess is she does not grow the long upright canes as some other DAs will. I agree with Jeri- these roses don't want to rebloom unless they have lots of water.


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Alameda, thanks for your assessment of DA's in a warm climate. I'm in Houston and want to know what will do well in the same climate. I agree with you about Golden Celebration - mine's a wimpy, shrimpy thing, too, with a bloom here and there, and blackspot. I'm giving it until next spring to perk up and bloom better.


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Alameda, is your Graham Thomas an own root plant or a grafted plant?

When I lived in the Dallas area, I grew Graham Thomas in all day sun, and I found that it bloomed regularly for me. My plant was an own root plant - probably from Heirloom as that was the nursery I purchased from the most back then. Having never grown a grafted plant of Graham Thomas, I cannot comment on the difference from my personal experience, but here is a quote on that subject from Vintage Gardens' online catalog:

" Budded plants of Graham Thomas are often quite unmanageable in size and vigor, often putting all of their energy into growth and little into flower; we have found own-root plants to be far more compact and free-blooming, especially when care is taken in the selection of propagating wood; an effort you will not see coming from the large companies."

The link below seems to just take you to the English Roses page of their catalog - you'll have to click on the "Ausmas" tab to read their full description for Graham Thomas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Graham Thomas entry - Vintage Gardens' online catolog


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Carding Mill is superb in the heat and blooms all the time. Sophy's Rose, of which I have two, is an excellent bloomer. I second Sister Elizabeth, who does best for me in afternoon shade. I love its lilac pink tone. Potter and Moore and The Dark Lady, although young, seem to be very eager rebloomers, and both have gorgeous flowers. Charles Darwin, unfortunately, was a dud for me. Cottage Rose, an old Austin, does quite well in the heat and blooms well when fertilized. None of these are octopus roses, which I don't care for. My Pretty Jessica is too young to judge yet but looks promising.

Ingrid


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

In hot, humid central Florida I grow nearly all my roses on 'Fortuniana' roots. But two major exceptions are "Heritage" and "Graham Thomas." As suggested above for GT, on 'Fortuniana' roots, they seldom bloom, and even in the spring, the bloom is sparse, on incredibly large, vigorous plants. But on 'Dr. Huey' or odorata ('Fun Jwan Lo') or own-root, they repeat well here and are far less vigorous. Of course, they also don't survive more than a few years that way (especially own-root), but we just replace them when they wear out.


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Hi Harmonyp: Per your question of where I get my Sonia Rykiel from? I got mine in April from Roses Unlimited in NC. But Vintage Gardens closer to you has it too.

Sonia Rykiel likes it wet, then it blooms like mad. It came in the mail as a gallon-size with 2 blooms. When I put it in pot, it got 10+ blooms for 1st flush. Then our temp. hit 90's and I forgot to water the pot, it broke out in rust .... that's the first time I saw rust in Illinois!

When I put it in my alkaline clay, zero rust henceforth. I'll move it to a wetter spot for more blooms. Sonia Rykiel has the BEST rasp. rose scent ... that's why I gave my 5 Austins away (Pat Austin, Lilian Austin, Scepter'd Isle, Charles Darwin, Queen of Sweden) so I can baby Sonia-Rykiel & other better scent roses. Sonia Rykiel is best grown in Moisture-Control potting soil or garden soil. It lasts 4 to 5 days in the vase. It smells like raspberry rose in bud form, and at the end smells better than Double Delight. The bush is small & pretty, very low-thorn & tiny prickles.

My best repeating Austin for this past hot summer near 100 degrees? Mary Magdalene is compact 1' x 1.5' in my zone 5a, thick leaves that stand up to the heat, fast repeat with many blooms, unmatched frankincense fragrance ... better than myrrh. The scent is like a cozy fireplace, better than incense in the Catholic church. It's loaded with blooms now, after our many frosts ... tomorrow is Halloween, Oct. 31. Radio Times is best-repeat for hot temp., but it's a 6' x 6' VERY THORNY bush, if not for its superb damask scent it's gone, after many painful pricks and my child's request to remove it.

Below is are pics. of pink Sonia Rykiel and beige Mary Magdalene.

Photobucket

Photobucket


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I am not sure if my Graham Thomas is own root or grafted. I think it may be grafted as I bought it as a sale rose 4-5 years ago from a local nursery, so doubt it would be own root. Would that make a difference in its lack of bloom?

Eahamel, if you dont have Graham Thomas, I wouldnt waste the money. There are other Austins that bloom better. My small 1 gallon Sophy's Rose that I just bought has 5 blooms on it. Thats more than Graham has had the whole time I have grown him! I am moving my Golden Celebration out of the area that gets full all day blasting sun to see if it will perform better but sure wont replace it if it dies.

I just picked up the new 2013 DA rose catalog today when I went to Tyler [and yes, I went to Chamblees!!] - it is really beautiful, thicker than in recent years and loads of beautiful photos!

I will continue to try with Graham......maybe I will hit on a formula that he likes. Anyone got any tips on making this one bloom?
Judith


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alameda, I think it was Greg at Vintage Gardens who wrote that Austins stay smaller and bloom more when they're on their own roots. I tend to believe anything he says. My own-root Potter and Moore and The Dark Lady have been blooming profusely and they've been in the ground less than a year. To get them going I disbudded them for about six months and I really think that helps any young rose. Have you tried alfalfa meal on your GT? It seems to really help my roses to put on new growth and flowers. If it were mine I'd prune it quite a bit and then water, mulch and fertilize is thoroughly. That formula has really helped my roses to leaf out like crazy after the hot summer and put out a lot of blooms.


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Here is a photo of my Graham Thomas taken today. It is healthy, growing well. I havent put any alfalfa pellets on it...its mulched with horse compost and bark mulch, in full sun, gets plenty of water. I cut it way back hoping to stimulate bloom but all that did was grow stems. Bet I have had no more than 4 blooms on it even in spring. Just put Carl Pool BR 61 on it as Chamblees suggested. Its a bit late in the year to fertilize now. I am thinking about putting a trellis behind it on the fence and just letting it grow and fertilize it next spring with several differnt things - alfalfa, epsom salts, Mills Magic Rose Mix. From looking at the photo, can anyone offer suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong? I have never had a rose I couldnt make bloom and this one is very frustrating! Its a big healthy thing and I wont give up on it but sure wish I could figure out the secret to making it bloom! All suggestions welcome, I will try anything! Thanks!
Judith

Graham Thomas 11-3-12


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RE: best repeating Austins for warm climates

Molineaux, hands down. It's nearly always in bloom for me. Right now 5 ft tall and in bloom. I have it near Charlotte - it outblooms Charlotte. Both Lady Emma Hamilton and Sister Elizabeth bloom all summer long although they're both short plants. My Jude the Obsure blooms well in spring and fall but shuts down in my 90-100 degree heat during the summer. I have an own root Graham Thomas that I'm training to climb. It's in its 3rd bloom cycle right now but it's a baby, only two years old so it's certainly not taken off yet.

I love the Austins but I've had to be prepared to shovel prune when they didn't do what I expected. I just took out Huntington Rose. Great looking bush (especially in winter) but the flushes were few and drooped terribly. It never looked good in bloom.

Have fun! If you don't have Lady Emma, get it. It takes my breath away.


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Hi Judith: I pay premium membership to HMF so I trace the lineage of roses. Most roses GRAFTED on Dr. Huey do well in alkaline clay, but own-roots are true to their blood. I checked Graham Thomas's heritage: It has Charles Austin, Iceberg, and a 3rd unknown. Charles Austin is also the mommy or seed-parent of Golden Cel, which is stingy as own-root in my alkaline wet clay.

Kim Rupert (Roseseek), the breeder warned me about Iceberg is stingy in alkaline clay as own-root. Iceberg is the parent of my Grandma's blessing, which gave me only 3 blooms for the first year, until I gave it acid fertilizer high in potassium, then it gave a great spring flush. Iceberg has hybrid musk parentage, and hybrid musk means water-hog.

I also see the resemblance to Charles Austin's lineage in my Crown-Princess-Mag ... this refused to bloom until I gave it acid fertilizer, plus horse manure high in potassium.


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I wonder if there are other factors in Strawberries Iceberg not blooming well in her alkaline clay...cause I think that is what most of SoCal has and there is no end of white icebergs blooming constantly. They are the SoCal go to landscape rose.

On the coast I know I can get mildew. I have a few icebergs planted either because they were just too cheap not to pick up or because I want to use for pollen and see what I can come up with in the garden. (my $3 own root icebergs in the lower garden have bloomed almost non stop. They are all about a foot tall, in horrible unfriendly rose conditions being sampled by chickens. Mulch is quickly kicked away, not sure we ever fertilized them, water is kind of sketchy and the "soil" is all heavy clay clods broken apart by wacking them with the back of the shovel or hammer) And yet they bloom on.

Gardens are fascinating, I think we can research and consider possible variables to no end. Only to find what works one place might not work in another that seems so similar. There is no one right or wrong, just a lot of time spent observing what is working for us.


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Great point, Kippy - another factor is the pH of the water. I checked your water report that you once posted: it's relatively neutral pH, compared to my water pH of over 8, so is Jeri's and Kim's. High pH water can make roses really stingy.

What works for one person may not be best for another. There are many variables: 1) pH of water 2) type of soil (sandy, loamy, or clay - some roses' roots are too wimpy to push through my heavy clay) 3) climate, and annual rainfall - some roses won't bloom unless all-day rain like Charles Darwin. 4) winter chill 5) hot sun vs. partial shade 5) lime in the soil or water, which inhibits bloom. I did post a question whether lime in horse manure as mulch will travel down to the roots, a chemist in the Soil Forum said "No", lime stay put where it's applied.

It's the limestone in the soil and the lime in the water that get to the rootzone, and inhibit roses on own-roots bred elsewhere, which is not accustomed to lime. Roses bred by Kim Rupert and Meilland French roses bloom like mad in my limestone soil, but NOT so with own-root Austins bred elsewhere in England with different type of soil.

I'm in Chicagoland, next to a limestone quarry, and there are regions in Texas high in limestone. If differs even 1/2 hour away ... was my old house with acidic soil, neutral water, blooming Rugosas, and blue hydrangeas. My present house is so alkaline that I can't grow Rugosas nor Reine des Violettes.


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Still early for me as my DA's are in their first year, and they definitely take longer to establish than the instant gratification HTs. But Young Lycidas has been the exception, putting out quite a few, big, purpley and wonderfully fragrant blooms. Thought the color would be more mauve / dark pinkish, but mine is really more purple and I LOVE it! I just purchased YL #2. I am very impressed.


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