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| Hello forum friends. In the spring I'm putting in a new flower bed on the west side of my house. The bed is raised up about a foot and a half, made of native stone, long and narrow, approx 3 x 13 feet, located up against an east facing wooden privacy fence, and borders a garden path that will get a moderate amount of traffic. The color scheme is "Easter pastels", basically clear shades of yellow, apricot and pink. I'd like to put in three roses separated by two French Lavender (Lavandula x intermedia, var. Provence) plants. The roses need to have short, upright growth habits. I've pretty much made up my mind on using HAPPY CHILD and SHARIFA ASMA, which are two English Roses that I've had prior experience with. However, I need a short apricot rose. I was going to use TAMORA but then I thought about the wicked thorns. Even with careful pruning Tamora is way too thorny for the amount of traffic that will be flowing along the bordering garden path. I DO NOT want Rob, myself or any house guest getting mauled. So I did some research and read in Clair Martin's 100 English Roses for the American Garden that AMBRIDGE ROSE has all the qualities I'm looking for.
Yeah and books don't always tell the truth. The author lives and gardens in Califrickinfornia, which has a completely different climate than the temperature extremes and year round high humidity typical of the Mid-Atlantic region. I have absolutely no experience with AMBRIDGE ROSE. I haven't even had a chance to see it growing in a public garden. Before I order the rose I'd like to solicit your personal comments.Is it a good rose? Is the foliage reasonably disease resistant? (I do spray fungicides, but only infrequently, approx once every 2-3 weeks during the growing season) Is the repeat bloom reliable? Just how thorny is it? I don't need completely smooth, but definitely not something like Tamora or a Hybrid Rugosa. Light to average thorniness is acceptable. Will it stay at 3 feet with pruning? Are the blooms truly apricot or apricot-pink as depicted in photographs? Your help is greatly appreciated. Best wishes always, Patrick Image of Ambridge Rose by Cathy9norcal-CA-9 at Hortiplex.
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| In our coastal garden, it bloomed reasonably well, was a twiggy, upright plant, and set new standards for the production of rust. It was a bit chlorotic most of the time here, BUT it (two plants) was on multiflora rootstock, which may have been a factor. Love the color. It may be terrific elsewhere, but I would rather walk on nails than grow it again. Jeri |
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| molineux, Can't help you with Ambridge Rose, but have you considered DA's Sweet Juliet? Soft "shades of glowing apricot," sez DA. My colleague grows it and loves it--I've often wished I had an appropriate place for it myself. The size is right for your garden, has strong fragrance (I knew you'd want to know about that), and is listed as "healthy" (which seems to be DA's way of saying "disease-resistant"--or so it usually works out for me). I notice that he does not make that claim about Ambridge Rose--which is why I thought you might want to think about an alternative. Don't remember about how thorny it was or wasn't. Kate |
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| Had it in my garden for 6-7 years. Loved the color, fragrance and great rebloomm. Very attractive bush shape, stays small and bushy, probaby 4x4. The only negative, it requires spraying, like all other Austins here. It was healthy for me with Banner every 2- 3 weeks.
Olga |
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| The myrhh fragrance is intoxicating. Does need spraying. I have three and they stay small. Carla |
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- Posted by lemecdutex z15 CA Petaluma (My Page) on Wed, Jan 7, 09 at 19:34
| Patrick, it's a really beautiful rose, but I suspect it's not that disease-resistant. We have about 100 or so of them in the field, they do stay smallish, and bloom well. One that I grew in humid east-Texas that I just loved was English Garden. Have you ever tried it? It's not a peachy as Ambridge Rose in color, but the blooms were unfailingly perfect and the plant was healthier than most other English roses I tried. It gets to about 3' and that's about it. Sweet Juliet here gets considerably bigger, but it is healthy. Congratulations on your new planting area, it's always fun to start a new spot! --Ron |
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- Posted by gnabonnand 8a Metro Dallas, TX (My Page) on Wed, Jan 7, 09 at 20:28
| Patrick, this has nothing to do with which rose to pick, but don't you love the 'Provence' lavender that you said you are going to grow with the roses you select? I planted it in the spring of last year. At first, I thought I still liked 'Goodwin Creek' lavender better, but when cold weather hit, my 'Goodwin Creek' lavender turned to crap all the way to the ground. But my 'Provence' bloomed itself silly for months and still looks great to this day! I need more to go with my roses. Sorry to side-track, but I couldn't help noticing your comment about 'Provence'. Randy |
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| Ron's right about English Garden. It's a lovely little rose. We grew it a long while ago, and it is just as he says. It'd be stunning in a very pale Celadon-glazed pot. I took that rose to a Rose Society meeting, one Thursday long ago. It won "Best Rose" in the Little Rose Show. And it was never troubled by disease here, neither. Jeri |
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| A nice little rose that was a rust bucket in a former garden of mine where almost nothing else had rust. I threw the plant away pronto. Ingrid |
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| English Garden, Ingrid? Or Ambridge? Jeri |
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- Posted by rozegardener (My Page) on Thu, Jan 8, 09 at 2:23
| I saw Ambridge Rose at the San Jose Heritage Garden in November, where the roses aren't coddled, or sprayed at all, and it was the best of the English roses and one of the best over all. I couldn't believe the scent, so intense even during a cold spell. I smelled every English rose that had blooms on it, and Ambridge rose was the best over all. I just love it. I must have one. I love the scalloped petals too, and the shell-like thing it's got going on. Did I mention the scent? To me, it is the yummiest. As far as the foliage went, I remember thinking it was looked good, which is more than I could say for 95% of the roses in the garden that day. Well, it's just one plant in one garden on one day, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Good luck deciding. I'm really having a hard time narrowing down my choices. -Gala |
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| I've been very pleased with Ambridge Rose in the garden here. It will have more pink in the blooms at certain temps, but overall stays a nice apricot. Picture below is not great but shows AR planted next to Pat Austin. |
Here is a link that might be useful: AR in the summer
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| Thank you everybody for your kind posts. I'm definitely going to give AMBRIDGE ROSE a try. Olga's comments cinched the deal. If the rose did well for her with spraying every 2-3 weeks then it should do well in my garden. In regards to ENGLISH GARDEN, I've had the pleasure to see and more importantly smell it. Nice little rose: nearly smooth canes, attractive foliage, perfect flower form, pretty color (white blushed apricot yellow in the center), and good stems. The light Tea rose fragrance could have been stronger, but at least it was present and easily detectable. It would be good alternative but the color is slightly off. To properly pull off the color progression from pink to yellow I need either a clear apricot or an apricot-pink blend. Now about Provence Lavandin (aka "French Lavender"). It is THE lavender of choice for places like Maryland with our heavy red clay soil. I've tried English and Spanish Lavender and both had a steady decline. The same can be said for other types of Lavandin. For some reason there is just something about this particular cultivar that gives it the necessary toughness to withstand our soil conditions and winters. Granted the flowers aren't a vivid as say Hidcoat English Lavender but to even have lavender growing in our gardens at all is a real treat. I like it so much better than catmint, which wants to flop close to the ground and spread like a member of the mint family. On the plus side the fragrance of Lavandin is even more intense than English Lavender. On hot summer days the scent really does waft all over the place. BTW, I've got three plants growing in straight, unamended red clay soil, which this spring will start their fourth year in the ground. So if lavender has been kicking your butt, I suggest you get yourself some Provence French Lavender and live the dream. Best wishes, Patrick |
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| Patrick, interestingly enough, French Lavender does better than the others here in my part of SoCalif, as well. Jeri |
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- Posted by rozegardener (My Page) on Thu, Jan 8, 09 at 14:04
| Live the Lavender Dream, yes, Patrick! French Lavender is my favorite too. But for those of you who decide to take the plunge, this you must know: It cannot be pruned like a rose, to the woody part of the stem. If you decide to shape it up, or cut off spent blooms that's fine, but cut only into green stems. If you cut into the woody part the green will never return. Give it room to be full size so you're not tempted to try to reduce the width by too much. Plant some annuals around it until it gets big. Luckily it doesn't take very much room. -Gala, friend of plants |
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- Posted by lemecdutex z15 CA Petaluma (My Page) on Thu, Jan 8, 09 at 20:10
| I think it gets confusing talking about "French Lavender" (which I think is L. dentata), and the variety "Provence" which is L. x intermedia, a hybrid with totally different leaves. L. dentata is not very cold hardy, but takes summer heat and humidity better than most (I was able to grow it in SE Texas if winter wasn't too harsh). Then there's "Spanish Lavender" L. stoechas, which grows very well here, but I didn't try in the east, and of course English Lavender, L. angustifolia. I was recently told that in the UK, what they call Spanish lavender and French lavender is the reverse of what we call it here, I don't know if that's true or not. There's a ferny-leaved lavender I just love, but I can't remember what the species is for that. It's not quite as scented as the others, but makes the nicest looking plant in my view. All the lavenders are pretty easy to grow in California, at least for me so far. I wish I'd known about the Provence variety when I lived back east, Patrick is doing us a great service sharing his experience. Let us know how you do with your Ambridge rose, Patrick. Hope it works out very well! I think I know what you mean about getting from Yellow to Pink, I did something similar here, since I really dislike Pink and Yellow next to one another. A lot of people like it, but I've always found it a jarring and unpleasant combination (maybe someday I'll see it and like it, who knows!). --Ron |
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| Jeri, I meant Ambridge Rose. I'm surprised that no one else had problems with rust. I'd be afraid to ever try this rose again. I've never had this problem with any other Austin rose. Ingrid |
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- Posted by gnabonnand 8a Metro Dallas, TX (My Page) on Thu, Jan 8, 09 at 22:38
| Yes, that is my understanding too, that 'Provence' lavender is a hybrid ... not really a "French" lavender. To me, it looks pretty much like the regular English lavender (l. augustifolio) but performs much, much better here in my North Texas garden (red clay soil). Anyway, I am grateful for past comments by Patrick that helped me to try this excellent rose companion. Randy |
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| Jeri, I meant Ambridge Rose. I'm surprised that no one else had problems with rust. I'd be afraid to ever try this rose again. I've never had this problem with any other Austin rose. Ingrid *** Ingrid, Tamora rusted for me, as well. But not as badly as Ambridge. Jeri |
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- Posted by lemecdutex z15 CA Petaluma (My Page) on Fri, Jan 9, 09 at 2:08
| There's something different about Northern California to Southern California that I don't quite understand. Tamora is absolutely trouble-free here, and I don't recall seeing any rust ever on Ambridge Rose. It's probably a bit more humid here than down south, and we definitely have more winter, but other than that, I don't know why the roses would be so different in health. --Ron |
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| I was at Chamblees yesterday and Ambridge Rose, in the greenhouse, was blooming more than any of the other Austins. I do have this rose, but didnt want to comment because it is hidden beneath a lavender crepe myrtle and under Crepuscule. I need to move it - I see blooms peeking out from time to time, but it is not in the best spot, but I dont see much blackspot and I rarely spray it, and it blooms consistently. After seeing it in the Chamblees greenhouse - I am definitely moving it to a better location. It is a beautiful rose and deserves a better spot than I have it in. I would buy it! Judith |
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| Ron, I suspect the difference in pH may be a big factor in the problem. Jeri |
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- Posted by lemecdutex z15 CA Petaluma (My Page) on Fri, Jan 9, 09 at 15:24
| Jeri, that might be it, or maybe a difference in the water pH, though the latter varies considerably. Our water is just a hair above neutral, and over in Sebastopol where Gregg lives it's highly acid. Our soil here is close to neutral, but alkaline enough that hydrangeas turn pink. --Ron |
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| Ron -- Our water runs between 8.3 and 8.5. I try to avoid what is laughingly called our "soil" having any contact with young roses. There's no real actual "topsoil" here. Jeri |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam So Cal sunset 23 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 12, 09 at 9:20
| I have an ambridge next to a tamora. They get morning sun until 1 pm. The ambridge is taller, paler and has bigger flowers than the tamora. I think Tamora blooms more but ambridge has the nicer color and shape. No disease issues with either for me. They both are on Huey. I have an own root ambridge that is smaller, but still taller than tamora. The other DA roses are very tall. Ambridge is the tallest of the shorter ones including Glamis, Bianca, Tamora and Sharifa. This has been a trouble free rose for me in So. Ca. |
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| Kitty, What are the thorns like on your AMBRIDGE ROSE? Patrick |
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- Posted by knightofroses (My Page) on Mon, Jan 12, 09 at 14:43
| Patrick, a rose garden of "Easter Pastels" as you say and French lavender sounds like it would be as pretty as a Renoir painting. Can you go into detail about the roses you are using and why you chose those roses and the placement of it all? Thank You, Chance |
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| I have 8 of them as a hedge outside my living room window. They bloom very well and I love the fragrance which is a sweet myhrr. They have many less thorns than 'Tamora' but more thorns than 'Heritage'. I like AR a lot though it is not as disease resistant as 'Molineux' or 'Tamora'. They make a nice hedge. |
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| HERITAGE (English) - shell pink; two trained as climbers. THE PILGRIM (English) - blush yellow; two trained as climbers. These four roses are trained as climbers up a west facing trellis attached to my house. The roses are fronted by a raised flower bed, constructed from native stone, containing reblooming bearded irises in shades of blue-white-lilac-pink, dwarf shasta daisies, dwarf purple coneflower and lavender. Central stone path planted with creeping thyme, johny-jump-up violets and creeping Roman chamomile. New flower border: SHARIFA ASMA (English) - light warm pink Stone steps leading up to potting shed. Right side of steps planted with sunflowers and lavender. Left side of steps planted with 2 MOLINEUX (English, yellow blend), annual blue cornflowers, and violets (var. Etain; LOVELY fragrance!). Just to the right, at the top of the steps, against a trellis attached to east facing fence wall: EVELYN (English) - apricot pink Front of potting shed (facing north) planted with Prince Charles Clematis, foxgloves, native bleeding hearts, monkshood and perennial forget-me-nots (var. Looking Glass and Jack Frost). BTW, the F-R-A-G-R-A-N-C-E!!! Between the irises, then the roses, followed by the chamomile, lavender, coneflower, thyme and sweet violets. It is positively orgasmic. Just make sure to watch out for the bumble bees - their EVERYWHERE. Hope this helps, Patrick |
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- Posted by knightofroses (My Page) on Mon, Jan 12, 09 at 17:43
| Patrick, you just described in your garden plans what my idea of heaven must be like. I want to hang out in that dreamy and very soft garden you are creating. Thank you for sharing your ideas. Chance |
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- Posted by dizzylizzy415 7b (My Page) on Mon, Jul 7, 14 at 17:45
| I am going to try Queen of Sweden. Check it out. It is light pink, upright, small grower and thornless. It is also supposed to be quite disease resistant. |
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