Good luck with that Kitty! My experience with "wanderers" of all types has been if there is soil to occupy, they will. Suckering roses are about as controllable as tree roots. If there is a way, they will exploit it. I've banished those notorious wanderers to drier spots where they won't DARE invade under penalty of death by desiccation. It's working! Kim

Kim's right!

We planted the Gallica, 'Belle Isis' in a 15-G Squat in the ground. The roots went down, found the holes in the squat pot, went through, traveled through the ground, and emerged as suckers 8 ft. away from the plant.

At first, I thought it was funny -- but the problem was that the plant put more energy into making suckers than it did into the plant itself. And a few years with no winter chill didn't help.

I've had Multiflora rootstock do that, too.

Jeri

Thanks for the truth. I had dug this plant up and given many of the big divisions away. It's doing well for 2 people that I know of. One is out in the inland empire and has a tough love spot but she waters once a week and the plants are filling in a spot that would otherwise be dead. She got a good bloom last spring. The other that I know of is a lady who planted it along a pasture at the base of the mountains in San Bernadino. I get flowers when the winter is cold enough but it's a battle to contain this plant. I guess I need to decide if it's worth it to keep digging the roots up. I'm running out of friends to give the pieces to. Otherwise it's a very trouble free rose for me with beautiful color and only has the underleaf thorns/smooth canes which I like.

I use bamboo barrier in the Sacramento cemetery too. I've used it for Banshee, Alba Maxima, Therese Bugnet, and a few more aggressive types. I have convict labor and Americorps volunteers to dig for me, thank goodness! I've found that 18" is deep enough. I don't encircle the roses with it, but instead use the barrier to divide our raised brick plots. I leave the barrier a couple of inches above the ground and mulch almost to the top of it.
Anita

I've tried growing roses that have wanderlust in open-bottom containers buried in the ground, basically large plastic pots with the bottoms cut off. For me this did succeed in keeping the roses from wandering. However I found that even with fertilizer and compost the roses began to choke out and dwindle. It seemed to me that they actually need to go off and colonize new territory.

In my experience, it is simply better to dig up or sever unwanted root suckers to contain the roses in the area you have in mind.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly,
I agree about wandering roses not doing well in bottomless POTS. However, those conditions can't be compared to what you have with a three to five foot circumference (EDIT: NOT circumference, but DIAMETER...sorry, big difference!) circle of bamboo barrier. It's the equivalent of planting in a 75 to 100 GALLON or larger pot, that still has subsurface soil contact and drainage. There is really no limit to how large a space you can enclose with the barrier (except for how strong your back is!), and the larger you make it, the better the rose will like it. BUT...the rose will not be able to PASS the barrier. Everybody is happy: you, the rose, and its neighbors.

Cemeteryrose,
You're quite right about leaving the edge of the barrier above ground level. I didn't mention it, but the instructions for bamboo carry over for rambunctious roses, too, lol. If you bury the barrier right at ground level, the sneaky beasts will just creep over it under cover of the mulch. You have to out-think the rascals! I use 30" wide barrier, buried 28" deep.

John

This post was edited by fig_insanity on Sun, Jan 27, 13 at 21:00

Definitely leave some above ground! I've seen Black Bamboo crawl two inches up to a stone patio and proceed to grow over it until it reached the soil on the other side. I had Charles de Mills do that over a concrete walk in the original Granada Hills garden. Nature enables all suckering/creeping plants the ability to endure, despite our best efforts. Harkness reported that his original Persica seedlings suckered many feet throughout his greenhouses, under the walks and into other parts of them. They have the will and always find the way! Kim

I think I did not explain myself clearly. My "pots" were actually old plastic garbage cans with a 65 inch (~ 5 feet) circumference, cut off 24 inches deep, planted in the ground with a few inches exposed above ground level. That is the size described. The roses did well under these conditions for several years, but after that they had filled in all the space inside the barrier. My point is that roses of a suckering habit will expand until they fill all available space. I suspect they would cease to thrive if they reach a point when no new space is available. They will become more and more crowded, unable to reach nutrients of even a well-fertilized, rich soil. A bigger space just puts off the inevitable. Only limitless space will make them happy long term. The only thing that worked for me was to dig up the roses periodically, select the best parts, renew the soil, and plant them back. Then they were fine until they filled it up again. A time came when I gave up on all but my favorites. They are now in the ground without a barrier, but I keep a sharp eye out for suckers. And I am watering less frequently, which seems to help slow them.

Right now I'm looking at a Banshee rose I have growing in a pot. It was my great-grandmother's rose (and may have originally belonged to my great-great-grandmother). Naturally I feel an affectionate attachment for it, but it is declining. I have not yet decided what to do. I'm kind of afraid to let it loose anywhere that is watered.

Rosefolly

Oops...I made a big booboo, Rosefolly. I said *circumference* when I MEANT *DIAMETER*. There's a vast difference between a circle 3-5 feet ACROSS and one 3-5 feet around. My HS geometry teacher would be horrified at me, lol. I can't believe it took me this long to realize my mistake. Anyway, my rapacious babies are contained in place by barriers up to 5' ACROSS. Some have been in place for up to 8 years, and flourishing. In general, if a runner pops its head up, I can re-direct it anywhere I want it to go. Some turn back, but most want to circle the barrier. So I just pull them up (most aren't independently rooted at this point) from under the mulch, bend them gently without detaching them, redirect them to where they're needed to fill in, and cover them back up. Because of that, these roses are the most full and lush that I have. I'm sure I'll eventually have to dig some or all of them up to move them, but that can be said for every rose I own, lol. In the mean time, I've had big, full, bushy gallicas....that don't eat their neighbors.

John

This post was edited by fig_insanity on Mon, Jan 28, 13 at 0:16

Yes, big difference between circumference and diameter. I did wonder. In any case, except for a couple of rugosas my roses of concern (half a dozen or so once blooming OGRs) have for the past three years been loose in the terraced section of the garden, watered infrequently and carefully monitored. They do try to spread, but at this point I am able to keep them fairly civilized. La Belle Sultane is the worst offender. I need to prune it back several times a year. Lovely rose though, and to me worth the extra effort. So far it is happy even though my climate lacks adequate chill for these OB-OGRs.

I'll probably end up moving Banshee to that area. When it is happy it is quite an aggressive spreader. A relative in Ohio with a plant of the same origin mows it once a year!

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, I'm jealous that you have a Banshee at all! In my book it's a good problem to be faced with, lol. Here, my one try with Banshee ended with its third consecutive year of balling horribly. I think I got a grand total of three blooms (not all in the same year!) that didn't look like diseased mushrooms, lol. Out she went, courtesy of Monsieur Shovelle.

John

Rosefolly this is just how I feel about Charles Lawson. If the rain is steady, this rose is rapidly on the move. I have been digging the whole plant up every few years but was wondering if there was another way. I didn't seek this rose out. Gregg Lowery suggested it when I ordered Blush Boursault and it's a very lovely flower. I think it's much prettier in person than the photos I have seen.

John, I do have a Banshee, but most years it balls just as horribly as you describe yours doing. It usually did well in my father's garden in Pennsylvania, and I assume also in my great-grandmother's garden in northern Maine a hundred years ago and more. (It was planted there some time in the late 1800's by my best guess, mid-1800's at the earliest possible.) Not so much here. If it were not a family heirloom taken from the original plant, I would not grow it at all.

Kitty, you're doing well. Charles Lawson is supposed to be happy in California, and I actually got mine as a passalong from a local found rose. Beautiful rose, too. However, mine got some kind of fungal crud (not sure exactly what) and over the course of a season it died, cane by cane.

Rosefolly

Be careful with the Banshee. It is the most aggressive rose I know (and that's saying a lot, with all of the species and suckering OGRs in the cemetery). I remember Kayla (I think that was her name) describing it growing under a driveway and coming up on the other side of a truck or van that was parked next to it, forming a thicket without anybody realizing it was there. Yikes. It balls for us in Sacramento, too. I don't think it's a rose that's suited for California but I understand the sentimental value.
Anita

That bad, huh? Maybe I'll just repot it and keep it in the pot.

lol...maybe I'm lucky Banshee forced me to get rid of her. I've got 110 acres, but I want to grow more than just one 110 acre-sized rose on the farm :D