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davidbeck_gw

Need climber to cover 40 long fence

DavidBeck
9 years ago

I have a 40 foot long split rail fence, about 5 feet high. It has deer netting up another 4 feet the entire length, so it should support some of the growth above the 5 feet of rail fencing. The fence sits on top of a slope and faces south and gets sun most of the day. The slope gives good drainage and the roses will be totally in view from the base of the yard/patio/deck.

I need a showpiece that will block the view of the back neighbor and cover the fence in green when not in bloom.

My first thought was Constance Spry, a once bloomer but puts out a LOT of blooms once established (I had this before on a large trellis). I don't mind that the rest of the year will show green leaves since it will form the backdrop of a flower bed that is in front of - and slightly downslope - from the fence.

My plan is to plant 2 climbers close together in 5 clusters, each cluster about 7 or 8 feet apart (total of about 10 plants, plus or minus) in order to get the maximum amount of canes to cover the maximum of fence.

My second choice is Graham Thomas. I like the idea of a wall of beautiful yellow blooms but I fear black spot and Japanese Beetles that will ravage them.

Any other ideas? I'm open to all.

Comments (21)

  • jerijen
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Although it is spring-blooming only, I love, love, love 'Fortuniana.' It's wholly disease-free here.

    This is a cutting I took some years ago in an old cemetery. I planted it at the bottom of the hill, and it's working its way up. I took this picture today because 'Fortuniana' has decided that it's spring, and it is going to bloom.

    Jeri
    Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

    {{gwi:2120522}}

  • jerijen
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's what 'Fortuniana' blooms look like.

  • portlandmysteryrose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with Jeri. Fortuniana is lovely. I first encountered it as what I believe must have been rootstock that out-thrived the cultivar. One tough cookie and so pretty! The Lady Banks roses blend beautifully and are, in my opinion, easy to care for. Thornless like Fortuniana which is nice when you have a big hedge to clip. The flowers turn into lovely hips. Lady Banks can remain green until the cold hits. I used Ladies in several clients' gardens...ones that were in need of urban screens. One question, though. Is the deer fencing pretty sturdy and connected to sturdy posts? I don't have a lot of deer fencing experience, and I'm reccommending some roses which grow more rampantly than the Austins. If your structure is strong, Cecille Brunner climbing is lovely. Some larger Chinas like Cramoisi or Old Blush climbing would have a very extended bloom period. These three do have thorns, but I've found them to be healthy and pretty, even from a distance. -Carol

  • jerijen
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol -- I agree with you. I thought also of those alternatives.

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How about Renae? Beautiful, strong, multi-bloomer rose that is thornless.

  • rosefolly
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If on the other hand you want something thorny, and are willing to plant a once bloomer, please consider 'Fortune's Double Yellow'. I consider it one of the most beautiful roses in existence.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fortune's Double Yellow on HMF

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What if you planted 'Mme Alfred Carriere' and trained it horizontally? I've never had it, but I keep reading how it just doesn't want to stop growing. If you go with that, two might be enough to cover the whole fence (eventually...).

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Whooaaa! If I had such a situation and the capacity to do so, I would have not a moment's hesitation in installing one or two Mermaid roses...perhaps my all time favourite rose. (A close-to-species hybrid R. bracteata)

    Of course, you'd need to have an extremely strong support framework to support her weight and massive dimensions, but, for me, it would be worth that possible extra effort and expense, a thousand times over!

    My reasons for recommending her:
    Would easily fill that space and screen off everything behind her
    Lush olive green foliage; evergreen - completely, probably, in your climate
    Would form a dense, thorny, impenetrable barrier - with or without the fence!
    Reliably disease free
    The most heart-stoppingly lovely, huge, saucer-like, single, glowing as though lit from within, palest yellow blooms, borne pretty much all year round in my climate, scattered amongst the green, the great central crowns of orange-gold stamens remaining after the petals fall for another few days of glory...
    I'm guessing her flowers might also look rather lovely at night, seen from your patio, gleaming seductively in the moonlight...

    Possible drawbacks:
    Can take a while and be temperamental settling in, maybe if one could obtain advanced specimens...but I haven't seen such a thing here. Might be worth trying starting her off in a large pot?? - others may be able to advise.
    She's a formidable challenge to prune. There's an excellent thread from a year or two ago which you could search for on this forum, entitled 'I bought Mermaid..HELP' which should give a realistic idea of this (also very funny, thanks to Jon in Wessex)! But the good news is, once established, she'll survive on complete neglect, so you CAN just leave her to get on with it, she just won't flower as much, according to Campanula on the same thread.
    If left unpruned she DOES take up a lot of space, horizontally as well as vertically. You do need to have room for her, particularly with her man-eating prickles.

    One plant might well do the whole fence, (with young canes guided out horizontally, maybe 20ft on each side), two I should think at most. Alternatively, you might consider combining one plant with the previously suggested R. Banksia - the double yellow kind - its clusters of little yellow puff-buttons might make a lovely contrast/harmony with the big pale single Mermaid blooms, and it might start covering the fence while Mermaid is still thinking about whether she's interested or not.

    A couple of other suggestions for wonderful yellow climbers that you might like to consider, would be the plum-stemmed Lady Hillingdon (Climbing Tea) - make sure you do get the climbing one since there's also a bush version - and the trouble free Buff Beauty (Hybrid Musk). Photos and information on HelpMeFind and elsewhere on the web, as well as this forum. (Type in the name in the search box for 'This Forum' at the bottom of the page)

    Good luck choosing!

    Comtesse :¬)

  • mendocino_rose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Edmund Proust would probably travel that whole length. It is gorgeous in the spring with a little re-bloom later. I'm including a photo of Queen of the Belgians. It is practically care free here and happily covers many feet of fence.

  • frances_in_nj
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, Fortune's Double Yellow! Rosefolly, I have longed for this rose for quite some time. Helpmefind lists it as zone 6, but alas I don't believe it - most other places list it as zone 8. And no matter how much zone denial I'm in, even I know I can't get away with a zone 8 rose! Sigh.

  • DavidBeck
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All great suggestions. Thanks to you all for suggesting some great alternatives. Alas, each has its drawbacks that may be deal breakers.

    Fortune's Double Yellow would certainly stretch the length of the fence but the blooms are "cluster flower blooms" which means they likely bloom in patches across the "canvas" of fencing. Worse (for me), is they're "nodding" blooms with a tendency to not do well in rain. Also, I live in humid Maryland and I fear roses that have yellow-derived genetic histories are highly prone to black spot and powdery mildew (I avoid sprays as much as I can).

    Queen of the Belgians is a definite option, but it's a rambler; meaning blooms occur on new growth and last years' canes have to be pruned back to the base. It may not get the full cover of the fence I'm looking for, but I will investigate more. I'm hoping it's easily available.

    Mermaid is a Hybrid Bracteata, a climber that's hard to train. I can live with it being a single bloom structure, but that yellowness (read: disease prone) factor again... I don't know. I have to look more into this one but for now, it's in third place on my consideration list.

    Mme Alfred Carriere is pretty and I grew it years ago. I liked it but it's prone to mildew. Also, it's a noisette and the small blooms may be hard to see from my deck (it's a wife thing...shhhhh).

    Fortuniana is another good option. A Hybrid Banksia, it should be very resistant to disease and vigorous to boot. I know you're in a dry part of the country, Jerijen and it may be more disease free there than in humid Maryland. Nevertheless, I'll investigate this one also, but for now it's in second place on my list.

    Lady Banks is a great rose but the blooms are too small for the fence. The fence would look like it's covered with yellow Honeysuckles from my yard and deck (about 60-75 feet away). It would be my first choice to drape over the top of a pergola, however.

    Cecille Brunner is another great rose, but as a Polyantha, it's almost as small as a miniature rose so its' size would not suit the site.

    Cramoisi Supérieur is a great red, but it prefers dry climates, so that choice is, alas, not for my area.

    Old Blush is a great tried and true China rose, one that is "hard to kill" by disease or pests. Unfortunately, it has a relatively sparse bloom structure for a climber. It's better suited as a shrub.

  • comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't recall EVER hearing anyone complain of Mermaid being at all disease-prone! On the contrary, this quote from the David Austin website seems typical:
    'It flowers more regularly and is more disease-resistant than almost any other climber'.
    HelpMeFind says 'very disease resistant'.
    I've tried to find specific references to problems with her in humid heat in both Australia and the US without coming up with anything, perhaps you have access to some more local knowledge for your area? Is there a local Rose Society perhaps who could advise?
    The bracteata parent confers qualities of healthy leaves and heat-loving/ cold-tenderness.
    Re pruning: you really can just leave her be, so long as no-one needs to walk close by her. I read somewhere (sorry, I can't remember the reference) that she blooms just fine without any pruning, and then after 6 or 7 years if she's starting to look a bit too messy, she can be cut back to a skeleton, or even right down almost to the ground, from where she'll burst forth again in vigorous growth. (Bracteata is virtually indestructible, and thus invasive in parts of southern USA, I understand).
    Hope that helps,
    Comtesse :¬)

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Look at Alexandre Girault and his kin. I had significant hardiness issues with it, but it is a very good rose if you rarely go below zero. The disease resistance is excellent even here.

  • rosefolly
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The idea that yellow flowers are disease prone comes from the Rosa foetida ancestry of bright yellow modern roses. Rosa foetida was highly susceptible to black spot and it has passed this along to its children. Mermaid is a Rosa bracteata hybrid and Fortune's Double Yellow is a china, probably of Hybrid gigantea origin. Neither has any Rosa foetida ancestry. Both are unusually disease resistant, and among the most disease free roses you could find.

    By all means chose another rose if you prefer. I'm not trying to talk you into planting a rose you don't like. I just don't want you to think they will have problems that in fact they are most unlikely to have.

    Rosefolly

  • vasue VA
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Although HMF notes GT as very disease resistant, a grafted potted GT planted here in central Virginia suffered repeated bouts of blackspot in this no spray garden & died off after several years. Perhaps I just got a bum specimen, but I've not been tempted to replace it after that experience, having read some reports on the Roses Forums that it blackspots in some gardens despite spraying. You may want to ask specifically about other gardeners' results with GT in hot & humid conditions.

    Golden Celebration, another golden yellow Austin, has grown happily here for 8 years. Also bought grafted & potted, it didn't begin to throw climbing canes till its second year. It blooms profusely & nearly continuously (new buds swelling as others are blooming) in large sprays off many laterals, offers solid perfume, and sets hips if not deadheaded in the Fall. This one's held upright within an obelisk & arches through the crossbars, but believe it could easily be trained along a fence. Without pruning, its canes are now 8'+ in arching length & would be longer trained horizontally. Very little & ocassional blackspot problems, confined to lower leaves that I just strip off when it occurs & it quickly replaces them with clean fresh ones. Mine is planted where it gets good air circulation, the branches don't much intermingle with other roses & the support is metal. Interlaced along a wooden fence for dense coverage, it might be more apt to spot, or not. Ask for others' reports if you're drawn to this one.

    You might consider Kordes' Golden Gate (KORgolgat) for your fence. At a distance, very similar effect as Graham Thomas. On my radar for several years, found two grafted 3-gallons last Spring & brought them home for tryout. Intended for either side of an existing arch in a long hedge, needed to shift the plants next to the arch prior to planting, so repotted them into 15-gallons & kept them where I could observe them closely in the meantime. (Hot Summer. Still in pots. First on my to-do list when we get a mild spell that's not wet. Likely better for the hedge plants & roses to accomplish when both are dormant, and certainly easier on me.) Golden Gate arrived in bud & bloom at 5', put on another 3' before cold set in & still holds a good amount of green leaves at the beginning of February. It bloomed in rapid repeat with snap-deadheading deep into Autumn, each round of blooms fuller & more numerous as it grew, increasing also in the perfume punch that won the Prix de Parfum Paris in '08. No disease at all, reflecting the ADR awarded in '06. Blooms held fresh a good while before dropping their petals cleanly (except in heavy rain when wet petals didn't shed till they dried again), flowers were unmarred by rain, didn't ball in the wet and were produced in both heat & cool. Given no support, the canes arched as they gained height & laterals sprouted & bloomed. Only a preliminary report after 9 months not yet in the ground, but Golden Gate certainly looks promising. Searching its registration name of KORgolgat turns up reports from Europe where it's been available longer than the US. I'm betting it will reach 10-12' or higher, and trusting the 3-4' width grown upright against a support. Some sources include it for fences, as well as arbors, trellises & pergolas.

    In the link below, the height/width is backwards. Included because it links to Palantine & Newflora, give the Newflora site a minute to cycle through the three photos, or click the dots under the main photo to see each one.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Golden Gate

  • Marlorena
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ..if David wants a climber to cover a 40 foot fence, then he's welcome to this...
    ..and bearing in mind the photo only reveals half the plant...the rest is off to the right out of shot.... this is after about 4 years in the ground... it's spectacular from June 1 through mid July...then a little gap, then repeats through to Autumn..
    ...I just sheared it back from time to time.....didn't make a lot of difference...
    it presents a wall of foliage right down to the ground...it cascades... so it covers up the base of the plant and anything else that dares to try grow there...
    Austin's state it grows to some 12 feet...... some kind of a joke...
    my fence is 60 foot and give it a couple more years it would be two thirds the way I should think...

    ..different shade...different light level...

    ..I did have this Clematis the other side..... had to move it...the rose ate it up and spat it out...

    ..anyhow... 'Malvern Hills'... if you wanted to know... it grows on you...

  • lazy_gardens
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "It has deer netting up another 4 feet the entire length, so it should support some of the growth above the 5 feet of rail fencing. "

    Don't count on it ... deer netting is not meant to be a trellis.

  • portlandmysteryrose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Maybe tall shrub/climbing roses on lower half and clematis, which can put out a lot of top growth anyway, above on the deer fencing? That would open up the rose options and we could all have another go at suggestions which might suit the site? If depth is not an issue, some teas might fit the plan. They like to expand in height and width and can make a dense, colorful, fragrant screen in areas of the country where their foliage is healthy. Downside: some can take awhile to fill out. Are noisettes trained horizontally a good, healthy bet in this region? Or a bushier noisette allowed to grow tall? A number of noisettes and teas have blooms in yellow shades, but I did read the response that Madame Alfred gets mildew. In Portland, I'd recommend albas--not yellow but healthy, attractive screens with big blooms--but that's not much help to you. But wait, doesn't the hybrid musk range stretch to zone 10? (I'm obviously not the regional expert for this post. ) Some HMs come in yellow shades. Marlorena: wow, wow, wow! What a rose!! -Carol

    This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Sun, Feb 1, 15 at 18:09

  • rosefolly
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I grew Malvern Hills for a few years. It was every bit as vigorous as you describe. In California's bright sun, the roses are white, not yellow. And I seem to remember it getting powdery mildew. In any case, it came to visit, not to stay.

    Rosefolly

  • fig_insanity Z7b E TN
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm partial to some of the hybrid wichuranas for covering acreage. Most are once blooming, but what a show. I've grown City of York, Glenn Dale, and François Juranville. The first two are white with a hint of cream, strong growers and mostly clean, especially Glenn Dale; the FJ is pink/orange, a rambunctious grower, and totally disease free for me, here in downtown Blackspot, Mildewed USA. FJ is glorious for about three weeks, then behaves himself by remaining fully clothed when a lot of my roses are cavorting about nekkid. None of these three, unfortunately, are strongly scented, just an "apple/soap" scent, lol. All are somewhat thorny, but FJ again wins by being the least fierce.

    John

    Here is a link that might be useful: François Juranville

  • Embothrium
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    'Fortune's Double Yellow' always had blotched leaves that dropped prematurely here.

    A common, easily grown one as it is seen in my area that grows quite large is 'Climbing Mme. Cecile Brunner'. An example up the hill used to reach to the top of a power pole and onto the lines.

    Another that you see around in places where there is no rose gardening going on otherwise is "Darlow's Enigma". It needs no care but the prickles it produces are like fish hooks.