Thanks for the summary! I grow various roses in Manitoba and am always interested to hear about hardiness. I have considered Austins many times but have never taken the plunge. Do these roses have a lot of dieback for you? My hybrid teas generally die back more or less to the ground, even with protection, but I will grow them if they're vigorous enough to bounce back quickly in the spring.

Paul Barden crossed Lilian Austin with the Tea, Mons Tillier -- Created a lovely yellow Modern Tea Rose. Probably not up to your climate, but looking good in SoCal. 'Licorice Tea.'. A beauty.

Jeri

Rick, what a great thread. I'm also fond of the early Austins, but I have to say your picture of Cressida is sublime. Of the oldies I've grown Queen Nefertiti, Chaucer, Mary Rose, Wife of Bath, Abraham Darby, Glamis Castle, Cottage Rose, one or two I can't remember the names of and my latest favorite, Potter and Moore. It has really sumptuous flowers which however don't have much fragrance. Neither does Cottage Rose but I remain fond of it. I also have a young Pretty Jessica which I hope will put on a show this spring. I really don't care for octopus arms and prefer to keep the Austins on the short side. They need a lot of water so they will never take over my garden, but I would not ever want to be without at least some of them.

Ingrid

'Wife Of Bath' is a great early Austin. Looks so dainty, tough as nails. 'Cymbaline' is another very interesting one.

It's not cold here. It's been 80F the past several days. Supposed to cool down, though.

This post was edited by hoovb on Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 17:26

Hello Northspruce,

I'm virtually certain that none of the Austin English Roses will be cane hardy in Manitoba. Though I have noted several posters from all three Prairie Provinces who do grow some of them over the years. If you grow HTs with success in your climate, then you should have equally good results with the English Roses if your treat them the same. Some of mine die to the ground in a cold year, but come back very well. Almost all of them are pruned hard and covered with straw in November. If you want to have a go, then Lilian Austin and Redoute, or Mary Rose would be good first candidates. Others with a lot of hardiness vigour and bloom power for me are: Saint Cecilia, Charles Darwin and Crocus rose.

Jerry, I do have a number of Paul Barden Roses and another on the way this spring, Treasure Trail. I have Joyce Barden which is a cross between Sweet Juliet and Souvenir de la Malmaison and I like her very much. She lives in a pot here and spends her winters in my unheated garage.

Ingrid, I have grown or do grow a number of the roses you name. Others such as Wife of Bath and Potter and Moore interest me greatly, but there are too many roses to trial and I have too little time and space try all the ones I would like to. I do try to trial a few new ones every year, as I loose or shovel prune other plants. I have twenty new and replacement roses coming in April.

The drought last summer relegated a few to the shovel prune list including Eglantyne and William Shakespeare 2000. Both are varieties that many on the forum love, but they are dogs here, they both just sulk in my climate. They've both had quite a few years and several moves to choicer locations without any change in vigour.

I have two Pretty Jessicas comming this spring, because I have heard rave reviews about her on this forum for years and some of them were from rosarians living in zones 4 and 5. I also have two rare old Austin treasures coming which I've been trying to acquire for years, Symphony and Claire Rose, both courtesy of Rogue Valley Roses.

I do find however, that bands from Oregon seem to take at least three years to grow more than a few inches. My unsubstantiated theory, is that because they come from Mother plants grown in a warm west coast climate, the new rose bands produced from them are climatically shocked when they find themselves potted up and expected to grow in Eastern Canada. Most of the cuttings I strike from my own mother plants take off and grow like weeds in year one. Who knows, but I have yet to get an own root band of any variety from any source in the U.S. that grew vigorously in less than three or four years.

Hoov B, Cymbeline is definitely on my rare treasure list. Hard to get in Canada, only from Rogue Valley Roses. Perhaps another year and Wife of Bath as well.

Cheers, Rick

Rick,

I share your enthusiasm for the early Austins. I had 3 own root Cressidas in my Silicon Valley, California home around 10 years ago. I moved from that home (with over 100 Austins) to Texas because of a job opportunity. Cressida was among my most favorite Austins and in my climate, it grew vigorously on its own roots. I moved back to a different part of California and have been trying to find this rose. I finally found that Hortico had this rose and ordered it; it arrived around 2 months ago. The prickles/thorns do not match the detailed photos in the book '100 English Roses for American Gardens',but I am hopeful that I was sent the correct rose. If not, I was told that they would send a replacement.

I share your enthusiasm for some of the earlier Austins. English Garden and Bredon were 2 that did very well for me. I also grew fond of the original William Shakespeare for the same reasons that you list. I am now growing a few other of the earlier ones, like Chaucer, Lordly Oberon, Wife of Bath, Glamis Castle, Cymbelline, Leander,and Wise Portia. Its a challenge to find them, but they are well worth growing.

I've got Othello which is very thorny but the perfume and color are excellent.

Oh my god Jeri, that is a gorgeous photo of Cymbeline, one of the best I have seen. I think you have just enabled me, though I'm not sure where I might find her in Canada and I've already placed two orders with RVR which gets expensive with the international pytosanitary, handling and shipping costs.

PS, I've also considered your namesake rose on several occasions, but I've lost every Hybrid Musk I've tried to grow here to winter kill. She is a beautiful rose.

Rick

You know, Rick -- that beauty is the reason we keep it -- tho it doesn't bloom here in quantity. A few of those a year justify its existence.

I'm sorry HMs don't do that well for you. The truth is, not all of them do well for me, either -- but Lord, they can be lovely, can't they? :-)

Jeri

What beautiful pictures! New here on the board. I too grow the earlier DA's. Then I ran out of space. I have Brother Cadfael, Peach Blossom, Emily, Mary Webb, Ambridge (work horse of a rose) Evelyn and Jude the Obscure in my back yard along with some minis that I got from Roger Moore (before he passed). I ordered this year, Pretty Jessica, Munstead Wood and Princess Alexandra of Kent for my front yard. Brother Cadfael is my favorite for the blooms. They are magnificant. It gets very tall in my "warm" garden. I will see what pictures I can post. Still pretty new to this... this picture is Ambridge Rose. Still not sure how to post more than one picture. Oh, and ignore the date on the picture. I also don't know how to change the date on that thing either

Beautiful picture of Ambridge, mustbnuts! I have a tiny band out in the ground of her that I can't wait to see bloom!

Melody

Thanks Melody. Ambridge should do well for you once she gets going. Here are some of my other Austins. This is Sharifa Asma. When I saw the first bloom on her I wanted to grow nothing but her.

{{gwi:226010}}

This is Peach Blossom which I have trained as a climber in my warmer weather.
{{gwi:220593}}

This is Mary Webb. She fades to white in my heat I have during the summer.
{{gwi:226011}}

Rick,

What a thoughtful posting, it almost reads like a love letter (to your roses, that is). The photographs of Cressida and Redoute are particularly pretty.

I don't share the coldness of your climate or your years of rose-growing experience but I do share your admiration of David Austin. I fell held over heels in love the first time I looked through his rose catalog. Because I have a large yard to fill and a lot to learn, I've been hesitant to try anything yet beyond his more recent, recommended varieties -- though I'm dying to order Compte de Champagne and Buttercup. I'm not sure where they fall date-wise in his breeding program but they are not featured so prominently in the catalog.

I like how you refer to your roses as "he" or "she" and wonder how you decided Redoute was a he. Personally, I have only one "he" rose in my garden and it's not Graham Thomas or William Shakespeare! (It's the green rose.)

Jeri, what a gorgeous picture of Cymbaline. Truly.

M.B. Nuts, looking at those pictures of Sharifa Asma, I can understand why you felt that you only wanted grow her. Is Peach Blossom a David Austin? It's sweet, that loose-cupped shape is one of my favorites.

I am new to posting here too but have been lurking for a couple of years. My young gardens and roses have benefited greatly from the wisdom shared on this forum.

Beauty of bloom aside, Cymbaline remains here in large part because it is clean as a whistle.

By contrast, we have had a number of mildewy Austins in our coastal SoCal garden -- none as annoying as both Tamora and Ambridge Rose, which set new standards -- HERE -- for rust.

I can tolerate a little mildew, but roses that rust on new foliage are outta here.

Jeri

Jeri, I find it interesting that there is not a spot of rust on Ambridge for me at all and I think we are in the same state. Says a lot for my "warm" summers (normally it is over 100 degrees for weeks at a time--95 is a cool day!). In fact we have winter about 5 months of the year, spring for two weeks, fall for two weeks and summertime the rest of the year!

I almost got rid of Ambridge because of her scent. She smells like cherry bubblegum to me! Since I was relatively new to rose growing, I didn't know that was the "old rose" scent. One of the people in my office loved it however and still wants the plant (15 years later) if I ever decide to get rid of her.

Now Brother Cadfael, the scent is to DIE FOR! I cannot describe it. It is amazing! One of my favorite things about this rose.

Yes, Peach Blossom is an early David Austin. It gets leggy, tall in my garden but is the first and last to bloom. Throws out new canes all the time. This year, I severely cut it back. Underline severely. I really "bent" those canes around my rebar arbor, so I shall see how she truely grows more as a climber. She was over 8--10 feet tall last year in my garden. I am expecting a nice display this year (keeping fingers crossed).

That Cressida Rose picture is just amazing. I shall have to find out more about her...I appreciate everyone's sharing of their experience and pictures so much.

BTW--whomever mentioned Buttercup--would love to see that rose too. Looks beautiful in Claire Martin's book. Sure wish I had space to grow more roses!

When I lived in England, I visited David Austin Gardens a number of times. I remember Buttercup particularly one July visit.
Most of the roses were in between flushes, except for Buttercup. She shone out throughout the garden. A beautiful clear yellow. She grew gracefully, wherever she was planted.
I remember a lovely perfume.
I wanted it badly, but soon after that, the decision to move was made, so I never did.
I don't know why it is not more widely known. It is a very good rose.
Daisy

It is interesting, how some roses haunt you, particularly those roses you wish to acquire but don't for some reason or another.

Thank you, Daisy, for sharing your memory of Buttercup. Someone is growing her, somewhere! In the U.S., she's already sold out for the season.

Thank you for the kind words Sidos-House. My garden and my roses provide me with much peace, joy and contemplative time and activity. I guess I do love them in a way, though fondness might be a better word for the feeling. To answer your rose gender question, I usually attach gender to a rose based on its name. So Redoute is a he, Cressida and Lilian are she's.

I am very much enjoying everyone's thoughts and inputs on the various early Austin cultivars. By now, it is no suprise to any of us on the forum that different cultivars perform differntly for different people and in different gardens and climates. Having grown roses in both warm and cold climates, I am very aware that roses often perform differntly in differnt climates. For instance, Jayne Austin was my favorite rose in coastal British Columbian, but here, while I still grow her, her flowers are smaller and the petal shape and texture are slightly different too. She is still very vigorous, healthy and fragrant, but her flowers in Eastern Canada are not nearly as appealing as they were in coastal B. C.

I am also aware that taste in roses is a very personal thing. What pleases one rosarian is of no interest to another. Some want continuous flower production over all else, others will pick the beatuful blooms, scent and fragrance of once blooming OGRS. But that is the beauty of growing roses. There are roses for all.

Cheers, Rick

As I've mentioned before, Ambridge Rose was also a rust bucket for me, even though my climate is far warmer and drier than Jeri's. It was the only of my roses that did this at the time, and I got rid of it immediately. Later Gruss an Aachen did the same thing and it also did not stay. Potter and Moore is still my favorite oldie, although not too many places offer it. It has such a sumptuous old rose look and I wouldn't mind at all having one or two more.

Ingrid

I too grew A;mbridge Rose, but for me as well, she was just plagued by Blackspot and defoliated by mid July. When she was in first flush however, her flowers were wonderful, as was her potent fragrance. I was just looking through my photobucket albums to see if I could find an image of her that I once had and liked very much, no luck though. As stated in the thread above, roses will perform differently in differnt gardens, so if you can grow her well in your garden, Ambridge Rose is definitely a treasure.

While looking through my albums, I found some more images of some of the cultivars I initiated this post with. Here are a few more:

Lilian Austin X 2

{{gwi:226012}}

{{gwi:215587}}

William Shakespeare (Original, 1987) X 2:

{{gwi:226013}}

{{gwi:226014}}

Redoute:

{{gwi:225440}}

And while I was browsing images, I came across the two images below of another early, hard to find favorite that I have grown forever. The rose is Bredon, bred from Wife of Bath and Lilian Austin. He is short, under three feet for me, has an uprigh habit, very healthy in my garden, floriferous and quite winter hardyin 4b. He has a pleasant, mild fruity fragrance. I began rooting cuttings from my plant last year because he is becomming hard to find, though Hortico in Canada and a few nurseries in the U.S. still list him. He is in the same category as Potter & Moore, an early Austin cultivar that never got much attention and was never wikely grown. He is another of the early English Roses that deserves much wider cultivation IMHO.

Bredon (1984)

{{gwi:226015}}

{{gwi:226016}}

Jeri and Ingrid, you have both enabled me, Cymbeline and Potter & Moore are now on the top of my cultivars to trial list. Thank goodness I already have two plants of Pretty Jessica and one of Claire Rose coming in April. Too many roses, too little room.

I am really enjoying chatting with you all in this thread, it is giving me a much needed winter rose fix.

Cheers, Rick

This posting is making me more excited for my new order of the older Austin's to come in. Out of my current collection I think Pretty Jessica is the only earlier austin that I currently have and I love it! But I did order 8 earlier Austin's which are:
Claire Rose
Country Living
Constance Spry
Cressida
The Squire
St. Cecilia
Wife of Bath
St. Swithun

Can't wait!

Brian

Hi Brian,

I have grown all the Austin roses that you list with the exception of Country Living. They were all good roses in my garden, and I expect that you will be pleased with all of them.

I placed an order for 4 Austins from Hortico (Claire Rose, Cressida, English Garden, and William Morris) that arrived in early December. I presume that you may also have ordered from Hortico, as I know of no other nursery that carries all of these older Austins. I am concerned about the specimen of Cressida that was sent to me. In the book '100 English Roses for the American Garden", there are detailed photos of the leaves, stems, and flowers of 100 of the earlier Austin roses. The thorns/prickles of my Cressida specimen do not match those of the photo in this book. My specimen has thin, stiletto prickles rather than the larger, triangular tan-color ones in the photo of Cressida in this book. What do the thorn/prickles look like on your roses?

I grew up in the OC (Costa Mesa) but now live in Central CA, which I prefer due to the lower population density.

John

Hi Brian,

Of the roses you have on order, besides Cressida, I currently grow The Squire, Saint Cecilia and Saint Swithun.

I love The Squire's flowers. They are huge, many petalled and the most gorgeous dark crimson colour of any rose I've grown. He has no scent that I can detect, though many say he is extremely fragrant. He's a bit leggy and sparse growing here. I grow him in a pot. But his flowers are to die for and I will continue to grow him. I've been trying to root cuttings of him, but find him difficult to root. I have some images of The Squire, but his gorgeous colour is very difficult to capture and my pics do not do him justice. This is the best one I have, but it is too fire engine red, think darker crimson"

{{gwi:226017}}

St. Cecilia is another favorite English Rose of mine, though when I was musing about early English Roses, I was thinking pre 90's and St. Cecilia is 1994. In my garden she is healthy, reblooms very well and stays at about three feet in height. Her blooms are pale buff to pink. They are a beautiful chalice like shape that remains cupped till the end and she has one of the most potent fragrances of any rose I grow. Strong Mhyrr, which is a fragrance I like, but many do not. Here's an image of her:

{{gwi:226018}}

Saint Swithun is another beautiful rose, probably will be a climber in California. Gorgeous large pink flowers and again strong perfume. He is absolutely disease free and extremely vigorous. I have two plants and they grow to six feet each year though I usually cut them back to 18 inches for winter protection. He has an arching habit and responds well as a climber or to self pegging. Here are a couple of shots of St. Swithun:

{{gwi:224774}}

{{gwi:224776}}

I hope your new roses do well for you.

Cheers, Rick

I'm glad to have enabled you on Cymbaline. I bet it will bloom in greater quantity for you -- and I've always felt it was a good rose that had been ignored. :-)

Jeri

What beautiful pictures everyone. Yes, that is helping me through the winter gloom here in central CALIF. We have foggy weather for many days/weeks at a time. Such beautiful roses and such little space. Hey there John__CA. We mustn't be too far from each other. Grew up in LA and my folks live in the OC. Yes, I don't like all the people and traffic down there either. However, I just read on this forum that there is a test garden down south for David Austin roses at the Pala Casino. Maybe someday, I will get down there and see it.

Yes John, I had ordered from Hortico. Going to try them out for the first time, but since their prices are pretty cheap I'm not expecting great quality. Although as time goes by, I find myself more anxious now and your pictures are not helping Rick.

I live in North Tustin, so not far from Costa Mesa. I like it here, I enjoy the cooler weather than what is more inland. Although I dream of moving to New England one day with more property and the ability to grow gorgeous peonies, lilacs, flowering cherry trees, and more...

Hello John_ca: I have also been searching for an Austin Cressida, for my Silicon Valley garden. I am interested in your post about Hortico and would like to inquire if you were satisfied with the plants and if they are now in the ground and doing well?
One 18 year old Cressida still grows on an arbor in my backyard and is a favorite for its vigor, fragrance and beautiful blooms. Regarding the thorns, when first planted, the thorns were meek and timid. As the climber gained maturity, the thorns became rather wicked and more prevalent. Give them time and judge the bush by its blooms in the coming months. Good luck.

Donalyn

Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb

Ambridge the Great. At least it is for me. Always wants to bloom and the flowers look good anytime. Sometimes they are apricot. Sometimes they are pale pink and sometimes they are almost white. A rose as good as Gruss an Aachen or Iceberg for me.

Anne Boleyn

Another view of Anne B

I saw a stunning Wife of Bath late last year at the Huntington.

Kathryn Morley is an octopus here but always makes heavenly blooms

What a wonderful post----I haven't been on the Forum much lately (health reasons) and what a joy it is to visit tonight and see all these gorgeous roses---
Rick ----thanks so much for this post I have always enjoyed your beautiful gardens this is Constance Spry
{{gwi:226019}}

and Abe Darby
{{gwi:226020}}

Florence

Zeffy, that's a wonderful Constance Spry and Abe is one of my favorites.

I was suprised to see this thread back up on page one. It was also a lovely suprise to see more photos of English roses.

Kitty, your photos are lovely. Florence, those are gorgeous shots of Constance Spry and Abraham Darby. Thank you both for posting them. We have a real English Rose eye candy thread going here now, wot?

Cheers, Rick

'Pretty Jessica" is a really lovely rose, with a strong old-rose/damask scent. It starts small, and stays small...and because of that, it probably isn't great in an area with really cold winters, but here it seems fine, so far. I planted two bands of PJ straight into the ground last June, and they stayed there all winter, and while small, they are both putting out a great deal of new growth. ONE bloom in a vase perfumed an entire room of my house. If these two do well this summer, I'll probably get more. BTW...that photograph of 'Cressida' is swoon-making.

Ambridge Rose, looks great in my garden. Healthy and happy, despite the very hot summer.

Dutch88, what a lovely rose!!

Rick, since I first picked up GS Thomas' book many years ago, old roses have been my garden love. I have now moved to a new zone, and I am renewing my passion for these. (In my Texas garden, my well was pulling up sand, and I had to let my garden go because I could not water it)

Thanks to everyone for the gorgeous pictures, and helpful cultural info!

Nancy

What a great thread. I have Redoute (and Mary Rose) and I did not know that it had Gallica in it's parentage. Mine does very well (except the deer love to 'prune' it for me...). I love most Austins. My WS 2000 has just now started taking off after waiting 4 years for it to do so. But it's worth it.

Tradescant (1993)
Fragrant velvet.
--Carol

rideauroselad, I notice on what I think is your page on HMF that you are growing Happy Child.

I have always felt attracted to the soft yellow color and the flower shape of HC, but I have also read many not very enthusiastic comments about it. How does HC do in your yard? I live not far from the south bank of Lake Ontario, so what you can grow should work for me.

I share your fondness for many of the early Austins. I am currently attempting Mary Rose, Lordly Oberon, St. Cecelia and The Nun. HC is on sale at Heirloom right now.

What a great thread! Such beautiful images and thank you for mentioning my image of Cressida. This is, I guess, the 4th year of our new garden and I cannot be more excited about my Cressida rose - it likes our new garden so much more than the previous garden as do many of my roses. Cressida, to me, has one of the BEST, most unusual fragrances, most wonderful coloring and big, full, form that is so beautiful. It's going to be a great flush!

What a great thread! Such beautiful images and thank you for mentioning my image of Cressida. This is, I guess, the 4th year of our new garden and I cannot be more excited about my Cressida rose - it likes our new garden so much more than the previous garden as do many of my roses. Cressida, to me, has one of the BEST, most unusual fragrances, most wonderful coloring and big, full, form that is so beautiful. It's going to be a great flush!