I'm determined to do the same this year, Rosefolly. Two years ago I added a sprinkler system, then a huge bed about 50 feet long and at least 20 feet wide. Could hardly wait to fill it up to hide the chain link fence and neighbors "collection" of camper, boat, projects (junk), etc. In just two years this garden has turned into an overgrown monster due to sufficient watering, etc. My wildflower area was beautiful the first year, then a total mess the second!

So - this is the year of organization, some stuff will be moved, some done away with/given away. I'm already working on going through all the stuff collected over 45 years in this house; by Fall I will be one organized fool!

Paula,
What a satisfactory combination of love and reason (sounds like the title of a Jane Austen novel, doesn't it?). I'd say you're going to have an even better garden after you carry out your plans than you did before.
Melissa

Love and Treason, maybe!

'Polish Spirit' was unmanageable here, too, and got "edited" last summer. Would have been great rampaging up some large tree, but was entirely too enthusiastic for this situation.

Rosefolly I would love to home your Madame Hardy and Nuits de Young. May I ask why you are getting rid of these two? If you've already got homes that is great! I would still like to know the problems you encountered with them. Thanks and feel free to email me!

Hey, another one buried under Polish Spirit. For sure, it looked lovely entwined with Graham Thomas.....fleetingly......but the pair together almost caused the collapse of my greenhouse. Gone, long gone. These days, I have Prince Charles - although, as a republican (but not a US type, obvs) this is a tad annoying......and a well behaved but suitably effervescent Rooguichi to give me that blue wave.

I find a bit of garden brutality to be highly satisfying, especially if I can summon up the visage of various political figures, just as the ripping and tearing reaches a climax.

OGRose, I know what you mean about planting wildflowers. I have had the same experience when I tried it. I spoke one time with someone who specializes in installing native gardens. She told me that clients are never really happy with wildflower beds. It is an idea that pleases more in theory than in practice.

Melissa, thank you. I do hope it will be better! Better cared for, at any rate. I am inspired by two great gardeners, Graham Stuart Thomas and our own Jon Dodson, both of whom set about creating smaller, better gardens after many years of working on much larger (and also quite wonderful) gardens. I do not hope to match their efforts, but I do hope to please myself at least.

Catspa and Campanula - I do love clematis, and will continue to grow others, but if Polish Spirit were well and truly named, then I think by now Poland would have taken over the world, instead of being the well-behaved country it is. At least, that is what the plant of that name would like to do.

Alana, if you lived in my part of the country, I would invite you over to take my unwanted plants. Since I live a couple thousand miles away it is not practical. I am not interested in packing up and mailing plants. If you are interested in trying to some cuttings, contact me at my email with your address and I will mail you some. The reason these particular plants did not do well for me is probably based on our lack of cold winters. I have had them for some years and they are in a long, slow decline.

Rosefolly

This post was edited by rosefolly on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 17:14

Rosefolly, I'm in complete agreement with what you're doing, which is the logical and rational response to the changing climate and your wish to concentrate on other things also. I think all of us have roses that are less than wonderful that we hang on to for one reason or another, but I've found that letting go usually brings a great deal of relief, as if a burden had been lifted off your shoulders. You'll appreciate the "good" roses that you're left with all the more, not to mention less work and more free time.

Ingrid

I dearly need to take a page from your book, rosefolly! It's all getting way too much for me to take care of. But I'm the worst at trying to get rid of things. In my neck of the woods if something has the strength to survive my winters who am I to hand down the death sentence? So everything usually stays until it gives it's last breath on its own. I'm actually sitting here trying to decide which of my roses are NOT going to survive this Polar Express and hoping it's not the ones I love but the ones that I'm totally indifferent to instead.

Rosefolly, as you mature as a gardener your garden gets edited. It will be the better for it.
Although I don't know how it could get any better!
Susan

Seil I wish winter wasn't so rough this year. That's hard to contemplate. I've been spared all this time from freezes and RRD and hurricanes, floods and plagues of bugs. I have lost some plants to diseases but not many.

Most of the roses I gave away needed cold to bloom or they just got too big for my garden. I've been lucky with most of what I've tried. Passing 100 plants is much more work. Lately I've been growing more Polys and they are easier care. Less food, less water, less work all around.

Some of my antiques I hardly touch at all like Blush Boursault. What a wonderful rose that is. Thornless and elegant with a fine spring bloom. I never bother with taking off the spent flowers.

The DA roses are the most work and have been in the group that has seen the most plants given away. I would say 1 in every 5 has stayed. I feel I got my moneys worth in cut flowers over 1 or 2 years time.

Forest ranch Pom Pom looks so sweet. Sorry that it didn't work out in your garden. I have a Charles Lawson that is finally leaving. He only blooms when it's cold enough but he walks all around and I have to dig out the travelers. I love the color and the smooth canes. The last time I moved him, I was left with a big pit after all the digging was done. My neighbor came by and said " Woman are you trying to bury a horse?!"

When a garden is small, sometimes you have to admit that the space deserves a plant that would be better than a hope it will be great someday rose.

I have to make changes in my head and heart first. I have a feeling that in this drought year I will be forced to make decisions that I don't want to make. I am firstly concentrating on the rambler collection. It is too important. Then I guess, the areas closest to the house(if that's even possible). It will be interesting to see which roses live entirely without water. I've thought that if there is really widespread death that I will clean up the farther pathways and if I still have a will to do so I will plant natives and tough things like Cistus.

I have thought a lot about you and your situation, worse than mine because while here we will probably have water rationing, you are more directly dependent on rainfall. If you can get through this -- and I do believe you can -- then I have nothing to complain about.

I am praying for a rainy February and March for us all.

Rosefolly

Pam, your situation is causing me great distress. Like Rosefolly, I still hold out hope for rain later this year. I can remember years when it didn't really rain until March and April. It may not be as much as we normally get but if it tides you over for another year that will be a victory at this point.

Ingrid

After years of digging up, cutting down and hauling off, I am enjoying bringing back in new plants. But I worry every time as I am planning the space if it is the right spot. Will it grow too big, will my kids be busy some day cutting down and digging up..... so I try to pick what should do the best here and be enjoyed in the future I still worry what if I could not tend a season. Or two and what might happen.

So tomorrow as I dig holes (with a very unhappy knee that will remind me that I am over 50) I will hope that my new row of cherry trees flourish, but not too much, and that they will provide some summer shade to cool some over heating roses, that they will find the migrating water from the leach field several yards away and that in the mean time we get a good although late rainy season. Even if it means raining in my garages I am working to restore

Ingrid and Paula, It is truly distressing. We can still hope for late rains. I actually need two months of decent rainfall, 20 to 30 inches. It's a good thing that I am thinking and grieving about the future now so that I am prepared. We are all in this together and we must be strong.

Pam,
And keep in mind, your roses just might surprise you. I know I've written about this often, but remind you that we don't water our roses (or other plants) after the first year, and every year they go two to four months without water, many of out in the blazing sun. And think of all those found roses: they must have been through some droughts.
At the very worst, you'll have enlarged your garden education: you'll know more about what your plants can and can't take.
Good luck!!!
Melissa

Pam, you said something that I find very comforting - we are in this together. We can't change the weather but we can support each other, share what we're learning about keeping our gardens going in the trying times we're facing, and be there to comfort each other when we face losses. I remember you mentioning Wooley-Dod's rose as being very drought resistant, and in time we'll learn about all the roses and other plants that do best in whatever climate is challenging us. This situation has become a reality within a very short period of time, although heaven knows scientists have been trying, mostly in vain, to warn us about this state of affairs for well over a decade. It's a shock, and it will take some time to regroup. We may have to learn to enjoy more the fewer roses we can grow, and to let go of the less cherished ones. I for one will hang on to the dream of having a garden with roses until all hope is gone, and I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet.

Ingrid

Rosefolly, I am pleased to know that I am not the only one who is paring down, but for a number of reasons do I this. I am not the youthful 50-year-old woman I was and I have too many roses not borne and bred for my climate. I have tried, as you well know, almost everything and worked hard at it. Some, many, can take advice from old sages and I feel we two are in that category. Your chronological age might not equal mine but your experience and hard work surpasses mine, but in total we are probably similar.

I have tried the wildflowers, having a friend who exceeds expectations. I know . . . . I know. . . . his climate is somewhat different, his bank account larger, his master's in horticulture but for fun and his wife's garden club leanings. He bush hogs everything at season's end. Should you view that garden, you would never think of bush hog the same way again. The garden of 1000 plus roses, clematis and an acre of wildflowers --- well, it's just what you think when you imagine Heaven, but I never accomplished such and never will and it's time to be realistic and give away, pare down and come to grips with my aging body and what it can and cannot do as was meant to be.

Ingrid and Melissa, you are right. This will be a learning experience. One thing I'm concerned about is the roses that do go all summer without water have usually received a deep winter watering. I do know though that the old cemetery survivors have lived through many drought years. I've gone from the depths of despair into a much better attitude. Often adversity is a gift.
Patricia and others, have you heard of the book "Gardening for a Lifetime"? I have just received it from Amazon. It's all about what you are thinking of.

This past fall I did much of what you're doing now -- editing my roses and everything else, paring down. I felt like I was a slave to my garden and wanted it to be more fun and less like a chore to keep it up, and less physically taxing.

I don't spray or water establish plants in my garden or winter protect, so what remains must be disease resistant and tough for the climate here. And while I felt sad at first, I have no regrets and so far I think the new garden is turning out better than expected and will only improve after the transplanted roses settle in and the new companion plants fill in any gaps in a year or two. I'm hoping this growing year I won't get that aweful overwhelmed feeling.

I also have a wildflower/native area in my garden that has evolved and is very beautiful in spring and summer, though it needs weeding and isn't maintenance-free either. But I decided I don't want to be a purist and grow only natives, I want to grow what does well here as long as it's not invasive.

Thank you for the heads-up about "Gardening for a Lifetime." I will go straight to Amazon.

It sounds as though a lot of us have been having similar thoughts. Yes, we are in this together. The drought has affected the whole West Coast, and no one knows how long it will last. There is tree ring data showing several droughts in California in the 1600's and 1700's that lasted for multiple decades at a time. No need to believe or not believe in climate change. Long droughts were already normal here. And I know that periodic droughts have affected others as well, Melissa in Italy, Pat in the Southeast, everyone in Texas and the Midwest.

Still, I have to say that I am not depressed about this for myself (though I am concerned about Pamela and her unique collection). It is my motivation to have that smaller, better garden that I have been talking about for years. I thought we would do it by moving to a smaller place. However, my DH Tom is a serious radio ham, so we have to live where he can put up antennas. That means not close in town where zoning restrictions would forbid it. After all, amateur radio brings him just as much pleasure as my garden brings to me. Tom never, ever ever complains about the demands of my gardening, so of course I would not complain about his towers. And yes, we do have antennas coming out of the middle of rose beds and tree plantations! In fact, it's the prettiest antenna farm around.

So far I have removed 12 rose from the front garden, and I have absolutely no regrets about it. After all, there are twice roses as many left in that bed. Perhaps I had overdone things a bit? In any case, I feel a sense of liberation. I'm still going to have a wonderful garden full of something on the order of 100 lovely roses. Next I'm moving on next to the Terrace Garden. (My garden and house are built on a steep hillside). I plan to remove 4 roses there, leaving 10. Then on the the Porch Garden, then the Fence Garden, and so on. All in all, I have between 25 and 35 roses scheduled for removal, including the dozen that are gone, and depending on how tenderhearted I get at the last moment.

I believe it will be more of a garden and less of a collection when I am done. Also, I expect it to be less work!

Rosefolly

I just received Gardening for a Lifetime a few days ago from my favorite discount bookseller (I love Amazon, too), Edward R Hamilton Bookseller (www.edwardrhamilton.com). Their prices are very low for new books, and I order all my gardening books from them, including some oddball books from British authors. Gardening for a Lifetime (new) is priced at $4.95, plus shipping of $3.50 and .20 per book ordered. Diane

This is one of my favorite quotes from that book - Gean

Certainty in a garden, as in life, is a comforting illusion that lets us bumble along quite happily from day to day until something goes awry. The reality is that change is constant - often slow and subtle, as in the maturation of a maple tree. But sometimes it is swift and brutal, as in the felling of a giant specimen in a hurricane. For this reason and many others I really believe that gardening is good training for life. Gardeners simply get used to the ebb and flow of the growing seasons, good and bad. Most of us just "keep on keeping on," as Winston Churchill is reputed to have said during the Second World War.

Aging makes keeping on harder, but the story I have pinned on my bulletin board puts it all in perspective. Violinist Itzhak Perlman was crippled by polio in childhood and walks with the aid of braces on his legs and a pair of crutches. At a concert on the night of November 18, 1995, at Avery Fisher Hall in New York City, one of the strings of his violin suddenly snapped during the performance. Stunned, the audience held their collective breath, expecting Perlman to stop and leave the stage. Instead, he paused, then continued playing, adjusting, creating, compensating as he went along, and when he put down his bow at the end of the concert, a mighty roar of applause filled the hall. When it had died down, he spoke to the audience: "You know, sometimes it is the artist's task to find out how much music you can still make with what you have left."

Making the most of what you have left is also the older gardener's task. How beautiful can you make your garden with the resources you still have at your command? This is the question I keep asking myself. I don't have the answers but I'm working on it.

Just as gardens must obey the law of limiting factors, so must gardeners. In essence, a garden (or gardener) is only as good as the least helpful aspect - you may add twice as much nutrients, carbon dioxide and sunlight but if water is only available in minimal amounts, the plants will perform to the same (low) level. Same for us - finance, space, location, creativity, energy - whatever we start out with, the quantities and qualities change throughout the years -
.....we have to work with what we have and accept inevitable limitations.....but overcoming these adversities makes us better gardeners (and maybe better people)

well put, many of you. I suffered the exuberance of a newbie rose/gardener, and am still suffering. But thank you for the encouragement to pare down. I ponder that I will purchase much this year. More interested in getting rid of...especially the 'winners' that grow so well here. Walkers Low Catmint, I am talking to you.....these get so overgrown so quickly. What was I thinking!!

Am enjoying reading everyone's words of wisdom....and thank the sweet Lord I don't have a bigger lot!!

Gean that is really lovely about Perlman. I once saw a soloist do the same thing. It was touching and beautiful. I was crying today as i was pruning. The drought is going to change my garden. Gardeners are nothing if not resourceful. I have resisted for a long time looking at change in my garden as i get older. Now it's all going to be decided for me. It's all going to be OK. I've had a fabulous time going along as if there is no tomorrow. I wouldn't change a thing.

Pamela, I feel sad for what you are going through. The changes in my own garden actually feel liberating to me. I'm still going to have a garden I love, and actually one I believe I will enjoy more. I felt bad when I started this process, but now I am happy. I feel as though I am taking control of my garden back. (Who I'm taking it back from, I have not yet figured out.)

I hope that you are able to save the parts of your garden that are most important to you. It certainly sounds as though you are working your way through to some kind of new, good thing. Exactly what that good thing will be in the end is out of our control, though we do get a vote.

It's certainly been a glorious ride, hasn't it? Like you, I wouldn't trade for any other life, or garden life, than the one I have.

Rosefolly

I have been thinking of you all, all of us with water issues actually, and I had a couple of thoughts.

Does NorCal have cities or counties with gray water systems? I think I will check in to what it would cost to have a water tank dropped at the top of the hill by the road and have a friends commercial gardening co fill when they pick up a load of gray water. I could gravity water all the fruit trees with recycled water. Maybe there is something that might work in your area?

I would love to see the spring flush of Mendocino Roses ramblers. I think they will survive since they are survivors to start with, but hope that once done blooming, cuttings are started for just in case.

I guess in need mean time, I should wash my cars, plan a garden party and start an outdoor painting/roofing project since that seems to bring rain :-)

Rosefolly, I'll just say that editing a garden is good. I wish you happy success.

Sherry

This time last year I was in bed for about 5 or 6 weeks with a knee and a hip that wouldn't behave. It is an old roller skating injury that decided to act up. I recovered but the time in bed made real the lessons in Sydney Eddison's book to me and the uncertainty and brevity of life.

My garden areas are not large but they too need to be edited. I probably have too many. But I have loved my years of shoveling manure, digging, shredding piles of leaves, weeding, and I hope I have a few years left of doing this. Eventually these joyful times will end as all things do, though. I remember seeing some pics of Miriam Wilkins' garden after she died; I think it was her. She did not edit but let it all run wild until the end.

Like you all, I won't have regretted a single dirty pair of jeans or a minute with my shovel or pruners. Life with my garden, family and books has really given me a lot of joy. I hope I can still create beauty until the end. I've taken up drawing and water color painting thinking as the gardening has to become less I can do that more.

I remember the drought in the southeastern US a couple of years ago which ended. I hope the California dryness ends as well and your rains return. I've been praying for rain for you all. Rain really is a blessing from God.

My best wishes for all of you and your beautiful gardens as well, Gean

I just wanted to say that we're continuing to expand here, and in the face of all logic since DH will be 79 in a month and we can't afford to hire much help. I'm all for all of us doing what makes us happy. No doubt I'll have the most tremendous weed patch one day, but meanwhile I'll have gotten my fill of roses.
Melissa

Ah Melissa, one never has one's fill of roses. So far, I too, have not reduced the size of the gardens and do not plan to. On the other hand I do not garden 3 acres like you nor do I have 100 roses like Rosefolly. I will find some way to balance increasing age with the ever present demands of the garden. I usually do. But I have been strategizing ways to make the garden more self sufficient (also my approach to raising children). I have decided to concentrate on trees, shrubs and bulbs and only tough perennials that like it here, plants that after a few years do not ordinarily require supplemental watering. Maybe I'll get someone else to spread mulch. With mulch down I can handle the weeding except for the woods garden and there I use Roudup, judiciously, and only once a year.

Cath

I like to think of Karl with his pathways to all his roses. We all find a way somehow.

Hmmmm, glyphosate is likely to be much in evidence for me too.....and even pokier stuff available only to professionals (and blaggers).

I thought I'd post a progress report.

I have now taken out 39 roses, with the tops cut off 3 more. They are the last ones I plan to remove, at least this year. I may do a modest version of this in three or four years when I see how some very young roses recently planted turn out. I am a gardener, not a true collector, so only well performing roses get to stay. Since my roses are planted in gopher baskets, digging the root up is no trivial task. When that is done (tomorrow or sometime this weekend) there will be 99 roses in the ground with one in a pot waiting to be planted when it gets a bit bigger, or 100 roses. Since I grow a number of duplicates, my HelpMeFind listing shows fewer than this. Also, I have 4 roses on order that I expect to receive later in the spring. That will bring the total up to 104, still more manageable than the 146 it would have been.

Do I have any regrets? No, not one. Instead there is a sensation of relief. Most of the roses I removed were either poor performers or difficult to manage. I expect I'll get more pleasure out of my garden this way, and I hope to have less work; in fact, 30% less. And maybe it is just the clean, sculptural look of a freshly pruned and weeded garden, but it seems to me that the garden actually looks better. In any case, I am happy.

I'm also seriously considering converting from spray irrigation to drip irrigation unless we get an amazing rainfall in March. I prefer spray for a number of reasons, but it is true that drip uses less water. Better to water less ideally than not to be able to water at all.

Rosefolly

I heard that some violinists used to break a string on purpose during performance -- for dramatic effect.

It's much better to have two of the same great rose than one great and one that you are unhappy about. I'm glad you feel optimistic about the garden and I hope the rain comes and washes our worries away. 100 roses is a good place to be.