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york_rose

Looking for a lax pink climber

york_rose
15 years ago

I'm interested in suggestions for a lax climber to go on a 3' cast iron fence. The rose will get close to full sun and be totally exposed to the wind off the ocean (although it will be in a few blocks from the actual coast there is little that blocks the wind). I'm ten miles north of Boston, in zone 6. We really only get a few weeks of hot, sticky weather in July, otherwise the summer temps. are usually in the 70's or 80's. There's lawn nearby and the sprinklers go on every morning around 4:30am for 30 mins. If I could stop that I would, but I live in a condo. and don't have control over the sprinklers.

There's a New Dawn/Dr. Van Fleet (not sure yet which) next to where I want this rose to be. I'm going to replace a too vigorous white semi-double with the rose I'm looking for. I don't want the pink of the rose to be deep or fuchsia. I'd much rather it be a soft or light pink that will work harmoniously with the "New Dawn".

The canes of the rose need to be lax enough to easily train along a 3' high iron fence. I'd like them to run about 10' - 12' long.

Disease resistance is important, and remontancy is preferred.

Any suggestions?

(Will Souv. de la Malmaison work???)

Comments (38)

  • labrea_gw
    15 years ago

    Awakening is a beauty that has a SDLM look to it. They have one trained along a 4 ft tall fence at The Brooklyn Botanical Gardens

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Awakening is a hyper-doubled sport of New Dawn (to the point that the petals of the bloom are "quatered").

    Any other suggestions out there?

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    15 years ago

    Have you considered Cl. Pinkie? It may be darker than you might like although the few flowers I've had on my new plant are a fairly light pink.

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you! I have never heard of Cl. Pinkie before, so I checked it out at HMF and it looks promising!

    Any other suggestions out there?

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    The first rose that came to my mind was Cl. Pinkie. It's nearly thornless which may be an added bonus.

    Robert

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Any other suggestions besides Cl. Pinkie and Awakening?

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    I thought of another: Climbing Clotilde Soupert

  • jaxondel
    15 years ago

    Another one with very lax canes is 'Renae', a fragrant light pink climbing polyantha. It has virtually no thorns, lovely dense foliage (no disease problems for me), and fairly heavy, season-long bloom. Among its virtues is the fact that it is self-cleaning. During mid to late summer in my zone, older blossoms fade to almost white before the petals fall -- which results in a color variation that I find attractive. The fading would probably not be quite so pronounced in your mild summers.

    To answer your question about SDLM: No, I don't think this heat-loving Bourbon would be a good choice for you. If you want that look, Labrea's suggestion of 'Awakening' would be the better choice. There's also the consideration that, even under optimal conditions, Climbing SDLM can take quite a long time to hit its stride when it comes to bloom production.

  • linrose
    15 years ago

    What about John Davis? There are no hardiness issues and it is very disease resistant. It's a very useful rose. I always loved it when I lived in New England. It has an antique look about it.

    Here's a link to it on HelpMeFind.

    Here is a link that might be useful: John Davis

  • Molineux
    15 years ago

    CLIMBING CLOTILDE SOUPERT is going to ball something fierce under the conditions you describe. I don't believe you'll get enough heat to completely open the blooms. AWAKENING is a very big climber and the canes are viciously thorny. You might have trouble containing it on a three foot tall fence. BLOSSOMTIME is a better choice. She is short for climber and would be easier to train along that frence. Some even grow it as a tall arching shrub instead of a climber. All that said my top pick is VIKING QUEEN. I've had good success with this rose and the blooms are absolutely gorgeous. It is fully hardy in zone 6, vigorous, reliable repeat, disease resistant, and strongly fragrant to boot.

    Image of Viking Queen by Zeffyrose-pa6b from a previous thread. Notice the shiny green healthy foliage.
    {{gwi:225557}}

    Here is a link that might be useful: Blossomtime at HelpMeFind Roses

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you everyone for your input!! Now I have some thinking/imagining to do (gee what a shame! ;-))

    Molineux, is the vigor of Viking Queen such that she's likely to overwhelm such a low fence?

    (And any further suggestions by anyone? I will keep taking them into consideration!)

  • windeaux
    15 years ago

    I hesitate to comment because my growing conditions are so different from yours, but here are some observations on some of the suggestions you've been given.

    Blossomtime and Viking Queen are, respectively, 1st and 2nd generation descendants of New Dawn/Dr. W. VanFleet. Blossomtime has a fantastic spring flush for me. Altho she does repeat, subsequent bloom is sporadic and sparse -- somewhere between New Dawn and Dr. VanFleet. Viking Queen is apparently quite healthy in many parts of the country. In my garden she required regular spraying. My greatest complaint, however, was that she wasn't much of a climber for me. I suspect that both of these roses perform much better in zones more temperate than mine.

    I have reservations about jaxondel's suggestion of Renae. This is a rose that I'm very fond of, but I wonder if it would perform well in areas where winters often are harsh.

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I wonder if it would perform well in areas where winters often are harsh.

    I checked out the recent "Renae" thread and I agree with you. There was a comment by someone there who praised it to the heavens as long as your winter didn't go much below 20 degrees (F).

    Mine does (not usually for more than a half a week or so in later Jan. &/or early Feb., but nonetheless). While we usually only have less than a week or two of 90+ degree weather in a July heat wave, at the opposite time of the year it goes down into single digits or below zero on the coldest nights in a cold snap. In years with severe cold snaps the daily high may be less than 15 or 20 for three or four days in a row.

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    I'm going to go off in another direction. What about hybrid musks? I'm thinking particularly of Cornelia.

    It may not be "pure" pink, but, it may fit the space.
    Robert

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    15 years ago

    If remontancy is not a must, the wichurana ramblers would probably fit the bill since they are very pliable. Paul Transon is one and I believe Alexandre de Girault, but at the moment I can't recall other names but I'm sure you could look this up. Very shiny leaves, healthy and tough. I'm not certain of zone requirements, though.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    15 years ago

    I used to have Alexandre Girault. It is still the first rose that comes to my mind when I see the word 'lax'. You can literally tie knots with it. Very healthy. The reason it is gone should be obvious. It was a once bloomer that wouldn't bloom after most winters because of dieback. It could handle zero, but not -5°F.

  • Krista_5NY
    15 years ago

    You expressed an interest in Souvenir de la Malmaison, so I thought I'd mention another Bourbon, Mme Pierre Oger. It's a shrub, not a climber, but it might grow long enough canes to fit the space. The fragrance is wonderful.

    It can get blackspot late in the season, but it's a happy bloomer.

    Another Bourbon that comes to mind is Mme Ernst Calvat.

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    Krista,

    Is your Mme. Pierre Oger grafted? ownroot? I ask because mine is grafted on Dr. Huey (I believe) and it does NOTHING. It's been hanging on for a couple of years. I've heard that it may not rebloom much, but that doesn't bother me so much.

    Robert

  • Krista_5NY
    15 years ago

    Robert, I have three Mme Pierre Ogers that are grafted onto Multiflora. (I got them from Pickering, and I think they use multiflora...)

    I love these MPOs!

    This rose took time to mature in my garden setting, but worth the wait, IMHO. I have a more recently planted Reine Victoria on its own roots, and it has some catching up to do, to get to the size of the MPOs.

    In the spring time I prune MPO fairly hard, seems to respond well to that.

  • palustris
    15 years ago

    'May Queen' fits your requirements exactly as to lax and light pink. I am very close to the water on Cape Cod and I have seen it growing at Elizabeth Park in Hartford too. Mine blooms for almost a month on a mature plant and literally has hundreds of blooms. It has become one of my favorite ramblers.

    {{gwi:228749}}

  • palustris
    15 years ago

    I forgot to mention that 'Alexandre de Girault' was not hardy enough for me and 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' has maintained a height of about 1.5' for me on Cape Cod over the last ten years.

  • palustris
    15 years ago

    'May Queen' fits your requirements exactly as to lax and light pink. I am very close to the water on Cape Cod and I have seen it growing at Elizabeth Park in Hartford too. Mine blooms for almost a month on a mature plant and literally has hundreds of blooms. It has become one of my favorite ramblers.

    {{gwi:228749}}

  • zeffyrose
    15 years ago

    I have found Clair Matin to be a very mannerly climber----It never got much taller than perhaps 7-8 ft in my zone 6b7 garden----
    {{gwi:228750}}

    {{gwi:228752}}

    {{gwi:228753}}

    {{gwi:228754}}

    I've been very happy with this rose

    Florence

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    15 years ago

    Florence, Clair Matin in your garden is so beautiful! I really enjoyed these pictures. Everything seems to grow big and beautiful in your garden; I well remember some of your past photos. It gives me something to look forward to in my relatively new garden. I love the way that especially the older roses grow bigger every year and don't always look the same. It means that the whole garden picture changes and evolves and that to me is really a great part of the joy of growing roses. Thank you for the photos.

    Ingrid

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Wow! Thank you all!

    I've grown Mme. Pierre Oger. Nope.

    The flowers struggled to open without rotting first, then it defoliated really badly from black spot, and finally a strong winter was the end.

    Hybrid Musk?

    Yes, although I'd rather have a clear pink with lax canes. There already is an arching hybrid musk on the other side of the New Dawn/Dr. van Fleet. It's against the fence, but I don't try to force it along the fence because the arch is nice and also clearly the inclination of that rose. I don't know what Hybrid Musk it is, but I'm certain it's either a Hybrid Musk or a more modern shrub rose with a similar genetic heritage. The flowers are about 2" wide and fade to white in the sunlight. In June it covers itself so heavily in flowers the leaves are nearly hidden. The canes are thornless, although there are very small prickles on the undersides of the leaf stalks. The shape of the leaves is definitely multiflora-ish.

    Is Mme. Ernest Calvat trainable or does it strongly prefer to do its own thing?

    How upright are May Queen and Clair Matin? One of the biggest problems with the unknown semi-double white climber there now is the canes are upright, arching, thick and very vigorous. It's a once-bloomer. I suspect it's probably some sort of Hybrid Wichuriana or some such. It has a hint of yellow in the flowers and a nice scent (that doesn't travel in the air all that much). It's not City of York, but it has a vague resemblance to that. It's just too much for that spot and there's nowhere else on the property where it will fit, either. The thorns are huge, much larger than New Dawn's!

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    (Ah. My boo-boo. May Queen is lax! The other questions remain, and I'll still take more suggestions.)

  • peachiekean
    15 years ago

    Is this lax enough? My Clair Matin grows in a small patio bed in sun and by end of summer wants to grow into the covered part of patio so I just hang the canes as best I can. It blooms constantly, in fact, it's blooming right now after I gave it a severe pruning in fall.
    {{gwi:228757}}

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    Krista,

    Thanks for the info on MPO. I think I may try budding this rose on a different rootstock.

    Robert

  • Krista_5NY
    15 years ago

    York Rose, I grow Mme Isaac Pereire, which is similar to Mme Ernst Calvat, but with a fuschia bloom. I grow MIP as a free standing shrub, and the canes strike me as "in between", they are not the most flexible that I've seen, but not the least flexible either... it tends to grow in a vase shape with the canes fanning out. I have heard of folks who grow it on a structure, but I have not grown it that way myself.

  • Molineux
    15 years ago

    Madame Isaac Pereire, Madame Ernest Calvat, & Madame Pierre Oger ARE NOT disease resistant in zone 6b. All three are very prone to black spot and will completely defoliate from the disease unless sprayed EVERY WEEK with a fungicide designed specifically to treat black spot. Frankly, the Bourbons are not known for their disease resistance. You should also know that I shovel pruned Mme. Pierre Oger a few years back because of the small flowers, poor repeat, and relentless black spot.

    You are better off with Clair Matin or Viking Queen. Clair Matin in particular can be found on most no spray lists.

  • palustris
    15 years ago

    'Clair Matin' is an outstanding rose: beautiful, disease resistant and reliably remontant. For me, south of Boston, it makes a large stiff caned shrub about 5' tall and 5' wide.

    Your once bloomer sounds exactly like 'City of York' which can get huge. I can't think of another rose with the same description.

    'Albertine' is another outstanding rose that meets your requirements very well and is hardy, reliable and beautiful. I see that you are looking for a rose to grow 12' - 15' along the fence (my 'May Queen' has canes only about 6' long, but the one at Elizabeth Park is grown as a climber, as I recall). My 'Albertine' grows on a split rail fence about 4' high and does extend at least 10'. The canes are very flexible and easy to train. Now that I think some more about it, this rose really does meet your requirements very well. Mine does not lose foliage and is reliably hardy on Cape Cod.

    {{gwi:228760}}

  • lori_elf z6b MD
    15 years ago

    I second Robert's suggestion for Cornelia for something with lax canes but not too big like a rambler. She does blackspot though and her color can be salmony. SDLM climbing gets really tall and has stiff canes. Mme Ernest Calvat is in-between in stiffness. I have successfully wound her around to grow her on a pillar:
    {{gwi:228762}}

    Rhonda is a really nice pink climber that you don't hear much about and is healthy.

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Your once bloomer sounds exactly like 'City of York' which can get huge. I can't think of another rose with the same description.

    I know what you mean. I've seen City of York in bloom at Longwood Gardens and this is similar. However, among other things the buds of this are more pointed (if I recall correctly) than are City of York's.

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    All three are very prone to black spot and will completely defoliate from the disease unless sprayed EVERY WEEK with a fungicide designed specifically to treat black spot.

    That was my experience with Mme. Pierre Oger. Between that and the way the flowers didn't open in my cool, humid summers I didn't replace it when it died.

  • york_rose
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Is Albertine a once bloomer?

  • gnabonnand
    15 years ago

    Florence, your Clair Martin is awesome!

    Randy

  • zeffyrose
    15 years ago

    York rose-----Yes--Albertine is a once-bloomer but oh what a gorgeous bloom and fragrance
    {{gwi:228763}}

    Thanks Randy---I love Clair Matin-----it is delightful all summer----

    Florence

  • rjlinva
    15 years ago

    I want to offer another...it's not a repeat bloomer, but, it may be a good choice: Mme. Sancy de Parabere

    Robert