Return to the Antique Roses Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Posted by desertgarden561 9a/SZ11 -Las Vegas,N (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 14, 14 at 12:46

Hello,

Last year I purchased Paul Neyron. I knew that this rose did not perform well for many, but despite comments I have read on this forum, I took a risk and purchased it anyway. Paul Neyron is the WORST looking plant in my garden!!! It has never looked healthy despite my amending the soil per professional testing prior to planting this rose. I have been watching and waiting and nothing….. It is actually worse looking now than it ever has been.

I am tasked now with rapidly searching for a replacement. I would prefer a pink rose ( soft to medium pink), a white blend would be wonderful. The color palette is created by roses in the vicinity; Mme. Joseph Schwartz, Annie Laurie Mc Dowell, Charles Renni Mackintosh, and EVS. I also have upright rosemary, liriope, lavender, and jasmine in the area.

As always, your assistance is appreciated.

Lynn


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I have Paul Neyron. The flowers are large and exquisite. The leaves do get blackspot but not year round. Paul Neyron has grown quite tall in my garden.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Mauvegirl, interesting. I thought that it would fair well in my garden too:( Right now it has rust and I cannot tell you what else. Blackspot is closer to rare in my garden. Those exquisite blooms is why I have tried to be patient with P.N.
I have yet to see a healthy group of leaves on my plant. How tall is yours?


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

HOw about a Duchesse de Brabant? It is pale pink, does well in hot climates, is drought tolerant, etc. Mme Joseph Schwartz is a color sport of DdB, so you already know how it grows, etc.

Jackie


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

What about Pink Gruss an Aachen?

I have Gruss an Aachen and it has full, flat white blooms often tinged with pink. Where I live is much more mild though, so I don't know if you would get the same coloration.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

A horrible rose. I never saw so much rust in all my life. I was glad when mine died. Good riddance.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

A year is not sufficient to tell if that hemophiliac will be happy there, Lynn. You have to treat it like a climber...give it three years to establish roots to tell if it's going to grace you with performance, or continue complaining at you. It wants to be a large plant. That requires a large root system (appropriate 'feet') under the plant. Like a climber, that takes time. Plus, look at the possibilities of extra water stress due to insufficient water, insufficient water holding capabilities of the soil it's in, and/or excess reflected/radiated heat surrounding the plant. Rust, like mildew, is EASY to force due to stressing the plant for water, particularly an immature plant. I'm not trying to talk you into keeping Neyron, honestly. I have tried it here in SoCal too often to admit to, both budded and own root and in several different cities and gardens within them. The only plant which ever performed acceptably was for clients in Pacific Palisades where they got heavy fogs with mild heat. They also sprayed it religiously every two weeks with a Miracle Gro - Ultra Fine Oil spray I mixed for them to foliar feed and knock down the constant mildew and saw flies in their garden.They maintained that regimen for some time until they accepted there were many other roses they could grow much more successfully, far more easily. It has NEVER been happy for me which leads me to believe it requires more chill hours with fewer high heat hours and more consistent ground moisture than can be provided in the "desert". It grew GLORIOUSLY in Visalia at Sequoia Nursery which is what encouraged Ralph Moore to use it for breeding. His plant was own root which had grown through the drain holes in the five gallon can. The plant was easily 8' tall and 5' wide, standing out of the ground on its roots with the deteriorating can clinging to the trunk and roots. It was one his grandmother and mother grew in their gardens, so it represented childhood pleasures to him. Visalia is a tremendously different environment than any I've tried it in and and definitely from yours. Sequoia could grow oranges, berries, grapes, French hybrid lilacs, crepe myrtles, coast redwoods, camellias, azaleas, daphnes, cherries, high-chill apples, peaches, plums and pears as well as roses and fairly tender "tropicals". Weird climate but lots of water.

If I wanted a suitable replacement which does perform in my climate, I'd look at Yves Piaget. Not a great plant, but a suitable (to my nose and eye) substitute for the flower. Kim


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I've talked to rose growers here who recommend Paul Neyron. In fact I just planted one this past month, due to those recommendations. So, I will see how it does here. My soil is highly amended and I follow the waterin recommendations on the county extension office for my area. Desert gardening is different from other places, as I'm sure you know...

What about souvenir de la malmaison? She does well in a desert climate.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Jaspermplants,

So far SDLM is okay here, although, the two blooms I have seen have balled, but they were trying to open during the winter. Other than the balling it is a healthy plant. Paul Neyron is sad, sad, sad looking.

Kim, I really like Yves Piaget but have heard about the not so attractive growth. That has stopped me from ordering the rose with such beautiful blooms.
P.N., 8'x5'… OMG. This rose is planted in a bed that is in front of my formal dining room window. I had hoped to look out and see a rose bush , not potentially have a good portion of the window covered by it. Now I really have no qualms about digging it up. I usually try to gift roses that do not perform well in my yard. They usually get a one-way trip to Ventura, CA… but I do not know about this one.

Brenda_l_w,

Pink Gruss Aachen is very pretty, but it is described as orange pink??? The rose must be pink, white, or a white/pink blend.

Jacqueline3, I think I crossed DdB off the list previously after reading about its yellow highlights.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Lynn, I've had Duchesse de Brabant and it had no yellow highlights. However, it, along with Mme. Joseph Schwartz, didn't like the heat here. La France does very well for me, huge pink flowers with a great fragrance, although the bush so far is not very tall. There's Mrs. Dudley Cross, of course, and thornless to boot, Belinda's Dream, Bishop's Castle, Potter and Moore, Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux and Emily. The last two are new so I can't guarantee their health or suitability but I'm very hopeful.

Ingrid


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

In cool, damp climates, Gruss an Aachen and PGaA can show some "orangish" tints, but you will likely never see anything like that in Vegas. I never did in Newhall nor anywhere else here in SoCal I've ever seen it. It's like the colors in Teas, pastel Austins and older HTs where golds, peach, apricot, etc. are reported. Where the sun is brilliant and hot, those NEVER express themselves and the blooms look "beige". Look at the photos here on HMF. The more uniform lighter pinks are what you're most likely to see 99% of the time in bright, hot weather. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Pink Gruss an Aachen


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

If Neyron rusts for you, anything La France is sure to, also. I've grown all the permutations and they all rusted and mildewed the same. Wrong climate, wrong level of water, etc. Gorgeous where they're gorgeous, but not "desert" types. Kim


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I have both duchess de Brabant and Mme Joseph Schwartz and they are both wonderful here. Don't know if it's my microclimate or what but they are both healthy and floriflorous! My garden is pretty heavily planted so there is not much reflective heat, etc. I don't have hardly any of that horrid hot ugly rock either so that may help too.

Also, I have La France sport, Duchess of Albany and it is very healthy here. I would not be without it; great rose.

I would also recommend Catherine Mermet or her sport, Bridemaid. Love them both and they are very easy here. Also Maman Cochet is wonderful. Of course teas are my favorite so will always recommend them first!!


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Baronne Prevost. Blooms for a large part of the year, flowers packed with petals and very fragrant. No disease here in rust and mildew central. Excellent in heat. Pretty drought tolerant too. Low maintenance! Tolerates shade well. A cool (no yellow tones), medium pink.

Melissa


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I'm puzzled about La France not being a "desert" rose since mine is thriving in my hot, arid garden, where it's planted close to a large area of heat-absorbing concrete. It has shown slight signs of rust, but really very little. It always amazes me how the same rose will do different things in what seem to be very similar climates.

Ingrid


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Ingrid and Jaspermplants, I forgot about La France. It definitely appears to fit the criteria. I believe I am in the middle of you two in terms of heat, and definitely tune in to your suggestions because in some ways, we confront some of the same gardening challenges. Thank you for the suggestion.

Kim, is it possible that La France truly needs a more extreme desert climate in terms of heat and the humidity level? Honestly, I cannot imagine any rose having a preference for real desert heat and dryness, but I am attempting to reconcile what you have seen versus what is occurring in Ingrid's and jaspermplants (Phoenix garden).

Tessies, thank you for the suggestion. Baronne Prevost is a beauty that I considered instead of P.N., but was enticed by P.N.'s blooms and purchased it. I am gun-shy with this class and do not think I want to purchase any others. I must admit that I could be tempted with the Oderic Vital, but fortunately it is not available.

Thusfar, the front runners are Octavia Hill and (La France????).

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 19:40


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I should have mentioned I've grown Paul Neyron before. Ghastly thing was a rust bucket of the worst order. Also badly afflicted with rose mosaic virus. He gasped along for many years but finally went belly up. Rarely bloomed (and the flowers he had were not the big beauties he is capable of producing when happy) on an ugly, sickly plant that never grew very big. The comparison with my results with Baronne Prevost is striking. Another really good pink hybrid perpetual for me is Marchesa Boccella. Very clean and heathy. Paul Neyron has a bad reputation in the hot areas of Southern California for good reason.

On the other hand my local botanic garden (about a mile and a half away) has an offspring of Paul Neyron crossed with R. nutkana called Schoener's Nutkana and it is a tank of a plant. BIG single flowers (repeat bloomer) and healthy as a horse. I've checked those leaves throughout the year looking for rust, and haven't found a trace. And I've checked all their plants, the one in a very shady spot and the ones in the sun. R. nutkana must have done a great job cleaning up the rust tendencies of Paul Neyron.

Melissa


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I am in Tampa, FL. I have Duchess de Brabant , Mme Joseph Schwartz and Paul Neyron.
DdB and MJS are tea roses so are easy to grow in my area. but PN could be a very beautiful rose when I have the time to spread it. Another odd thing is it grows a lot better when I put it in a big pot instead of ground even it is consider to be a big rose.
if you still have it , maybe give it some more time or move it somewhere else. PN is wonderful for cut flower.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Maisy,

I have a SDLM growing in a 3 gallon pot because I didn't know where to plant it. I am thinking of planting it in P.N.'s space and putting P.N. back in a pot.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Update,

I could not determine what to put in P.N.'s place so it remained. I increased the water that this plant was receiving and then the temperature became warmer. The Paul Neyron band, received last July, bestowed three magnificent blooms and shook of whatever the unsightly mess was on its leaves; including the rust. Now if it would just grow a little faster.

After re-reading this thread, especially Kim's post, I am wondering just how large will Paul Neyron become? (HMF does have it listed as 4-7', does that mean really mean closer to 10' in places with a long growing season?) I placed it in a planter bed outside of my dining room window. Upon its maturity, will the light of day from that window disappear?

I now have Baronne Prevost too and do not know where I am going to place it or how large it will actually become.?When I ordered it, my thought was sp'ing Gertrude Jekyll and planting B.P. in the spot, but she began her second flush, and I got a whiff of the fragrance, so I am hooked… again.

Lynn


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Do you have or like 'Mrs B R Cant'?

I don't know if she'd do well there- no rose seems to be perfect everywhere- but she seems to be a non-fussy sort in general.

And her bloom reminds me a bit of 'PN'...


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

vmr423,

I think that Paul Neyron will remain in my garden, unless it becomes too large or goes downhill in terms of health. It was purchased as a band last summer and in all fairness, it has improved, and more time should be provided to see how it will perform.

I do not know how large it will become. I have never seen P.N. in person, only blooms and images on HMF which may not represent a mature bush.

I have liked Mrs. B.R. Cant but definitely think it will become to large for the space ( based upon seeing mature images of this bush)

Lynn


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Lynn, Paul Neyron may eventually block your window. It is more tall than bushy. The blooms are exquisite & enormous. They are so heavy, they weigh canes down. I would never remove it. I suggest you maybe relocate it. It's more a stand alone rose or back of the bed.

I obtained mine from The Antique Rose Emporium. It's probably 5 feet in approximately 18 months time or less!!!! :)

I recall reading that in it's heyday, rich Parisians referred to this shade of pink as 'Neyron' pink when talking to their decorators. It was all the rage.

Paul Neyron was a medical student who died during the 1870-1871 war or siege of Paris by the Prussians.


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

Mauvegirl,

Thank you for the historical information associated with Paul Neyron. My intention is to one day research and keep notes regarding the historical information for my roses.

If I can keep Paul Neyron in the 5-6' range for height, it can stay where it is. My concern is that the window it will be in front of is only about 6' wide. The "tall not bushy" habit is gives me hope too that it can remain where it is.

Lynn


 o
RE: Shovel Pruning Paul Neyron - Replacement Suggestions Please

I'm rather glad to hear that PN gets a reprieve- he's a lovely rose, and I hope he rewards your patience with improved health. But if he doesn't work out, at least you'll feel better for giving him a real chance.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Antique Roses Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here