Given all these imaginary circumstances, and with a year to get going, wouldn't you want to plant a cutting bed of fragrant HTs in whites, creams, and golds? And if you were going to do this, which ones would you choose?

Rosefolly

Of course if the future son-in-law is a jerk it might be a far easier decision to make.

Foghorn Leghorn

1) Honey bouquet floribunda (1 week) strong honey scent, perfect yellow bloom.

2) Bewitched HT, medium damask scent, light pink, 1 week vase life.

3) Apricot nectar floribunda - cream/apricot, 4 days vase

4) Irresistible mini - tons of bloom for long-lasting cut, white/beige color, spice scent.

I would love to know other good cut roses with some fragrance. Thanks in advance.

I'd just see what they have available in the colors I want and pick some after checking as much as I could on hmf and threads on the regular rose forum.

I saw that Valencia is available at Reagan's; I've wanted that one for awhile :)

Congratulations on the new addition to your family, hypothetically speaking, of course.

Rosefolly

Congrats on the happy news!

Here are some HT's consider:

White: Sugar Moon and John Paul II (JPII is my favorite white; excellent fragrance)
Yellow: St. Patrick (long vase life, good in the heat,light fragrance, high petal count, good vase life)
Gold: Valencia (nice fragrance, long vase life)

All the roses you provided to us are doing well. We rooted a cutting of Grandmother's Hat from the cuttings you gave us, and it has several canes that are around 4 ft. tall. Hope Quietness is doing well for you.

I don't know anything about Reagan, except they're close to you, I think, so you know much better than me about them as a supplier.

Hypothetically speaking of course, if it were me, I'd order twice as many rose bushes as I thought I'd need so I might have enough and then some to spare.

Have fun, Rosefolly. It sounds grand!

Jeri

About fifteen years ago when our daughter was getting married we planted peonies a year or two before. They bloomed well the year of the wedding and held reasonably well in the extra refrigerator but were early and we ended up ordering some as well. I also remember floating maiden hair fern in the bathtub overnight and using the toilet cover to keep them submerged. Ah yes, memories are made of this.

More about the planting of the peonies: we had to go on a trip about the time they arrived and so one son agreed to plant them with one of his buddies. His sole request was to have limes from my lime tree. These were the first it had ever produced. I reluctantly agreed. When we got home the peonies were planted and said son enthused about how good the limes had been...with his beer! Yuck. What a bad way to go. He, however, assured me that this was the highest and best use of a lime which would be pleased with such an end.

Cath

Strawberry Hill, thanks for the vase life information, very helpful.

Campanula, no, it's going to be roses. All those other flowers are nice, but they are not me. Plus, timing of bloom in California is very different than timing in England. For example, my early daffodils are blooming now.

Harborrose, agreed completely on the grafted roses. I don't have the extra year to mature own root roses, especially some HTs that might be weak growers without the crutch of more vigorous root stock. I'll look into Valencia. It has been recommended to me several times.

John CA, yes, Quietness is doing well for me, very happy in the new bed beyond the olive tree. Lots of teas, chinas, noisettes, Austins, and climbers are growing there. It blends beautifully; a well-named rose. I'm looking for JPII but so far not finding it. I saw Sugar Moon in the Regan's catalog.

Seil, Regan's bare root season is over. Alas. I got this bright idea too late for them.

Jerijen, I planted Golden Celebration last year in the new bed beyond the olive tree. It's getting a touch of blackspot, which surprised me. I hope it outgrows it.

Cath, I love peonies, too. They are marginal in my climate due to lack of winter chill, but I do grow Sarah Bernhardt and a couple of Festiva Maxima. The old common ones do better here than some of the newer ones. I don't know that the timing would be right here in my climate, since I can't remember exactly when they bloom here.

I'm looking at the J&P website and at Weeks. It looks as though my choices for fragrant white HTs are Pope JPII (J&P) and at Weeks, Sugar Moon, Maria Shriver, or Secret's Out. Full Sail is also available, but I grew it in the past and I seem to remember some issue with it. Is anyone aware of a significant superiority of any one of these over the other? There is also Tineke, which sounds like a magnificent rose, but unfortunately without scent.

Rosefolly

My daughter isn't hypothetical and neither was her wedding. We had multiple hydrangeas for her wedding but the Full Sail I groomed had only a single useable bloom.

Costco was a great source of filler roses when full sail fizzled on me. Not as fun but just in case you need a plan B...

I've been thinking about planting some roses behind my garage just for cutting. I don't want to raid my main garden, and most of the old roses don't have much vase life. I think that your idea is splendid, even if it doesn't fully work out.
Anita

I like what Cath said, what a lovely memory for you and your daughter, that your garden celebrated also.

But Rosefolly, wouldn't it also be fun to try to plan on keeping the rosebush(es) so that maybe one day (hypothetical) grandchildren could see the roses that were in their mommy's wedding. That's just a silly, sentimental thought, though probably.

The problem with keeping them long term is that the only space I have for these roses is usually dedicated to another purpose -- my Hobbit Garden. It is the bed where I grow the blueberries, and there is a four foot by eighteen foot strip in the front of the path in front of them. It is not ideal light for roses either, getting between half and two thirds of the day sun, depending on which end of the bed. I normally grow cheerful cottage-y annuals there to attract beneficial insects to the garden. I have grown rose there in the past, and they did well, so perhaps the summer sun is better than the sun I am seeing there now. And I have always loved the idea of a white garden. Being right by the kitchen door, I would see this one frequently in the evening. Hmmm.

Anita, I think I'll skip French Lace, though thanks for the suggestion. It is a very pretty rose, but I grew it long ago at Luanne's suggestion and failed to detect any fragrance in it. I don't have the best nose. Right now I'm debating Secret's Out, Sugar Moon, and a floribunda called White Gold, all described as being highly fragrant. And perhaps I'll plant some white foxgloves in the corner that is too shady for roses, `a la Mottisfont. I don't even have a blueberry bush planted there, and blueberries are woodland fringe plants that are accustomed to growing in partial shade. I'd really love to plant three each of all three cultivars. Perhaps I could put the floribundas in pots? I have three large clay pots nearby currently growing herbs. I could easily move the herbs elsewhere.

Do let me know how your own cutting garden works out. Funny how several of us get the same idea at the same time, for different reasons.

Rosefolly

I would appreciate any info. if she's thorny or not. I rule out Bolero floribunda for a white rose since its neck is too short. I'm still looking for a white one to compliment my red ones in a vase. Thank you.

Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on Sat, Sep 20, 08 at 13:24

In Coastal Southern CA, in generally cool conditions, it required spraying.
Moreover, neither of us could detect the slightest hint of fragrance.
Long Gone from here.
If you could find a virus-free clone of the Austin, Perdita, you might try that.
It's almost pale enough to be warm white, and has enough gold and pink
shot through it to have the look of fire opals.

Jeri

I grow both PJP2 and Maria Shriver. Both are very fragrant and a pretty, clean, white. PJP2 is more of a specimen bloom one per stem, while Maria Shriver has side buds on side buds on side buds. I agree with you about going with a single variety of each color, though. Too much variation between varieties of the same color. The other two are too new for me to be familiar with them in person.

Hypothetical congratulations, and what fun for the garden!

Cath

Things to do, hypothetically:

Line up refrigerators and test the temperatures that they will hold. 35-38F so long as it doesn't dip below 33 to get back down to 35. Use a max-min thermometer inside the frig for several days this May.

Find out what time the roses need to be pruned to be productive the hypothetical wedding date. This is so much a local thing, but the most important of all. Then plan to prune to bracket the hypothetical date by seven days before and seven days after.

Look at your area's temperatures for the past twenty years. This is necessary for predicting the above.

Are thrips ever a problem?

Find a source for a superbloom product. The first time I forced my garden to produce, every night I either watered or dilute fertilized for 45 days before the wedding.

If you need to force tulips, I can tell you how.

I use large amounts of noisette sprays instead of baby's breath.

Make sure the hypothetical Son-in-law and his family have no scent allergies.

I have used dried blooms of The Fairy for flower girls to drop out of season.

I was going to suggest avoiding any 'gold' roses because none look good with real gold, or whatever color the ribbon makers are declaring to be gold this and next season.

Make sure you've got friends' gardens you can cut at, if you need to.

(Another reason for the rest of us to avoid yellow and gold is that they are thrip magnets.)

What we are going to contribute is a setting, possibly for the rehearsal dinner, possibly for the day-after wedding breakfast, and very possibly for both. Here is what I have worked out so far.

Guests will walk through the gate past the front garden featuring old and reproduction roses with mixed perennials. As they approach the door, there is a raised bed with blueberry bushes in the back. The front and sides will be planted with a massed planting of (probably) 'Pope John Paul II', ('Sugar Moon' if those turn out to be unavailable after all) several 'Festiva Maxima' peonies, white clematis 'Duchess of Edinburgh' trained up a trellis in the back ('Hulden', too, but it won't be in bloom yet), a cluster of white foxgloves, and, if they are likely to be in bloom yet, a few white delphiniums. I'm looking around for white cranesbill geraniums and white dianthus. Their delicacy should make a nice contrast to the boldness of the plants listed here.

Across a paved area from this bed is my sunken herb garden, and in front of that bed, three large clay pots that will be planted with the floribunda 'White Gold'. Behind that is a clump of redwood trees, and growing under them are some white calla lilies. I have been assiduously weeding them out every year, but my daughter likes them so I'm going to leave them this year and next. I expect they will increase like mad.

Between the redwoods and the sunken herb garden is a stairway that leads down to the lower patio. This is a hillside with very little level ground. The lower patio is where the festivities will mainly take place. I plan to plant two 'Tineke' HTs, one at either side of the staircase base. They have no scent but are said to be bullet-proof, and I like that. I'm a little leery of all these white roses in case there is an explosion of thrips. Already growing along the edge of the patio is a hedge of eight 'Perle d'Or', and in pots on the patio, one each of 'Sutter's Gold', 'Whisky Mac', and 'Lemon Spice'. I may move those pots to the far end of the patio just for this event. That's what hand-trucks are for. Along the walkway leading away from the patio, my plan is to plant a massing of several 'Westside Cream Tea'. If that turns out not to be available, I'll look around for some other fairly low-growing, healthy white rose, fragrant if I can find it.

I won't go on about the lights I'll string on the arbor, etc, etc, but you can see how excited I am, and how this has all evolved so quickly. I'm so glad I thought of this, this year, and that the idea did not come to me twelve months from now when it would be a bit too late.

Rosefolly

Cath, you see that I took up your suggestion about the peonies. My daughter is delighted. I'm not sure the bloom time will coincide, but we are trying.

I hope I haven't missed anyone. You comments are all gratefully received.

R

Peonies can be fooled into blooming later, but not a whole lot later. Have you considered Lilies? (Do you get the Van Engelen catalog in the fall: bulbs as well as peonies)

Depending on a lot of things, climbing white sweet pea vines can be charming and fragrant.

There is a peony grower not far from where I live. I called her yesterday and have made arrangements to come out to her nursery in late May this year to see what would be best to plant. Then I can buy them directly from her. The earlier peonies are more reliable here, 'Festiva Maxima' being a real trouper, but it will be done before the wedding.

I have ordered my Pope John Paul II roses and the White Gold roses, also two 'Tineke' (unscented but thrip-resistant); three white clematis, ''Duchess of Edinburgh', 'Miss Bateman' and (blooming later) 'Hulden'. I have located a vendor for the foxgloves and the delphiniums (delphinia? shudder) I want. And I have cleared out the space to plant these plants when they arrive.

This is all very exciting to me. I don't know how I can keep up the pace for over a year.

We do NOT mention "Eden" rose here. I had counted on it for third niece's wedding bouquet and every petal on every bloom had browned edges. All several hundred blooms. Even the ones I cut early to protect. Nothing different that year than the previous year, except I needed the blooms to look great and none did. That's when I began to really cherish my noisettes.

Ann, I just placed an order with Annie's Annuals for my foxgloves and delphiniums, as well as one more try at a lupine. They are offering the famous New Zealand Dowdeswell delphiniums that I have always wanted to try but could never find. I ordered a couple of 'Double Innocence' and am planning to plant them with a good shovel full of composted manure layered under the roots (with some soil intervening, of course), and maybe as a top dressing under the mulch as well. The foxglove I ordered is called 'Snow Thimble' and it is pure white with no spotting. I actually don't mind spotting. It is rather pretty. The advantage of these is that they are supposed to come true from seed. I have pink foxgloves elsewhere in the garden and I want these to stay white. The lupine (only one plant) is Luinus regalis 'Gallery White', and Annie's claims that it will do well in our area. My fingers are crossed. I have failed with lupines in the past. These and the lilies should take care of the spiky plants. The roses and peonies should take care of the mounding plants. The dianthus (perhaps in pots?) which I will buy locally later will take care of the low level. And the clematis trained up the wall in the back will give height, as will the nature o a raised bed. No one will even notice the five blueberry bushes planted in the back, which is rather a pity because I think that they are very pretty, too. Their presence will add a bit of green, which is always good.

Rosefolly

The peonies were the bride's idea. Her favorite was 'Mabel Gentry', pale pink with a lovely fragrance. Mine was probably 'Ann Cousins', a Large white with good petal substance and good fragrance. 'Vivid' has been a strong grower with staying power. 'Duchess de Nemours' has endured along with 'Vivid' under adverse conditions. It has fragrance but is not a beauty by modern standards.

Cath

Rosefolly

Cath

Rosefolly

Daisy, thanks for those pictures. I've seen pictures of the delphiniums themselves before, but never in such a lovely garden setting. If I had not seen pictures of your garden in Crete, I would wonder that you could ever leave such a place as your garden in England.

Campanula, that is just what I hope, that the garden will be filled with people I love. Even though the ceremony and reception will be elsewhere (we cannot provide a dance floor being on a slope), I am anticipating out-of-town guests ending up here the day after the wedding for a breakfast and recap of the evening before.

Rosefolly

The peony that my daughter likes is Myrtle Gentry, not Mabel Gentry. I was having a mental block that day thinking of the scented geranium Mabel Gray, another favorite.

Cath

Mendocino, I'm just as well pleased that the wedding will be offsite. I saw how much work you did, and I know that what I saw was only a fraction of it.

As for Cara, thank you. Right now I'm remembering how beautiful your own daughter was on her wedding day.

Rosefolly