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White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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Posted by
zjw727 8bCoastalOregon (
My Page) on
Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 13:13
| Has anyone grown White Cap, a climbing Floribunda from 1954? I want a white rose to grow on a pillar, in a bed which has blue hydrangeas that turn mottled mauve-green at the end of August, with Mme Isaac Pereire behind them. That same bed also has Colette on a pillar. I have a friend who grows th emost beautiful Sombreuil/Colonial White (NOT the Tea Rose Mlle de Sombreuil)...which is what I was originally going to plant, but the photos I've seen if White Cap are making me weak in the knees. Any advice or experience regarding diseases, problems, growth habits...or fragrance comparison? (I know that neither of these are Antique/OGR roses, but I think they fit better here than in the General rose forum) |
Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.135284
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| I am in coastal No Cal, so we are a bit cooler than you are. That said, I grow Sombreuil (aka Colonial White) on an arch which is about 8-9 feet tall, and arches at least 8 feet over to the wall of our house. Sombreuil (within 2 years of being planted) grew up the arch, over to the house, and 15 feet up the house! Of course, that was because we let it. However, even just the part on the arch is massive - every year it gets so heavy that my DH has to re-organize it just to keep it from pulling the arch over with its weight. We just gave it its annual pruning, and I must tell you that it has VICIOUS thorns (I know they are really "prickles", but that is not a strong enough word for them.). I have to wear armor, practically, and they still get me. Also the canes are stiff and unflexible when they have attained any sort of age, and thus difficult to train unless they are new. That said, I love this rose - it blooms 9-10 months here, and of course the blooms are magnificent. However, I don't think I would plant it on a pillar. In fact, there is a pillar about 3 feet away from Sombreuil's arch (in the opposite direction from the direction the arch is going), with another rose growing on it. Sombreuil jumped over to it, and had taken it over in just the 12 months since we pruned it last, and was shading out the other rose. One of the pruning tasks I just did was to remove it from that pillar - I will have to keep an eye on it - it is looking for more areas to conquer! The attached picture shows Sombreuil on the pillar it expropriated - actually, 90% of it is going to the left on its arch and up the house where you can't see it in this picture. Jackie |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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Yup.
That's the Sombreuil we know and love. I have never seen White Cap, but I know for SURE I would never try to pillar Sombreuil. :-) Jeri |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| Just a note to say that of course I meant to say that we are a bit warmer than coastal Oregon, not cooler! Jackie |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| They are both Wichurana climbers, like New Dawn. They all have the same large, hooked thorns, and awkward, spreading growth habit. In a climate where they aren't controlled by winter, I'd think twice or more before planting either of them in a position I'd never put New Dawn. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| I grow White Cap up here in coastal Washington on Puget Sound. Every year I plan to replace it because the blooms do not open well for me. But it may be that it just needs to be moved into a lot more sun than the spot I have it in. I am growing it with Clair Matin who does fine in that spot, but CM has a lot fewer petals. Sombreuil does well for me, but it is a thorny thing. Beautiful blooms. Another you might look at is Creme de la Creme; it seems to do well here and the blooms smell like pears to me. It might do well as a pillar; not too thorny to work with and I don't believe it will be massive. Somewhat upright. I don't know if that is very helpful; I almost replaced WC this year but Pickering didn't send me my order and I never ordered my replacement again. Can you tell I am really on the fence about WC? I think it really needs more heat ... but again, maybe just more sun. And maybe you are warmer than I am up here on Puget Sound, as far north as Seattle. For whatever that is worth ... |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| And also to agree with Mad Gallica, I don't think it would do well as a pillar. It is not as vigorous as the New Dawn I grew in northern Alabama, in a lot of shade, I might add, but I wouldn't try to bend the canes. I grow it and CM as free standing shrubs. It is quite happy to stand up by itself. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| No to Sombreiul on a pillar, it will not do it. I love it, but I have it up against a fence and it's still taking my life into my hands doing that. The canes are thick and stiff and very thorny. I had a thread here a few months ago, I am looking to replace a climbing Iceberg. I was specifically looking for something more disease resistant. White Cap was mentioned, but I never found a source for it. I did order La Marque from Chamblees, that was another mentioned. I think you could grow climbing Iceberg easily on a pillar. It's a great rose and I don't think blackspot is an issue in your area. Iceberg is very pliable, thin flexible canes and not that thorny. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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Next yeat I will be receiving Sombreuil from GreenMantle. Thamks for the tip to give her space. Much more space than I had thought.
I planted Lamarque June 2010. This is a Tea-Noisette I believe. I had been told that it couldnt be grown here in Western Washington. There are a few rosarians here who grow this class of roses successfully. So I tried a few, this being one of them. Planted in June as a band...that November the temp went to 4-6 degrees for 5 days. None of the roses had time to adjust to such severe cold. Lamarque came through just fine.
Please note that microclimate is imperative. I woould suggest that you not place this rose, if this is what you choose, in an exposed area. It needs protection as in near a structure and a south facing exposure.
It is as stated before a beautful bush and disease free. No BS, mildew or rust. Not sure what rust is on any rose bushes.
Enjoy your choice whatever you chooose.
Jeannie |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| Thanks for the info on Lamarque jeannie. I will have it up against the house with southern exposure. I do grow several noisettes here and they do well. And we rarely get temps that low. I think in 12 years, once it went down to 5 degrees for one day. But I have lost some tender roses with rough winter weather. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| buford, if you want to try White Cap, let me know-just email me- and I'll send cuttings or try to root one for you. Mine came from Pickering, not a source for us any more, and I don't guess that Connie is selling any longer; she carried it too. I think it might be great for you. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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- Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 11:08
| I would say Climbing Iceberg, flexy canes and very few prickles, but you would probably have a lot of blackspot. It is super Rust/Mildew resistant here, but blackspot it is vulnerable to. |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| I love this forum. I'm so glad I discovered it...I don't live in an area where there is a great deal of rose-growing beyond modern hybrid teas and floribundas. Most of my gardening friends shrug when I ask them rose questions. Every day I learn something new and exciting from this forum! |
RE: White Rose For Pillar...White Cap or Sombreuil?
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| zjw727, if you still want to try WC, and don't have a source for it, I'd be happy to send you a rooted cutting of it if this batch takes. I pruned it yesterday and am trying to root some. I have a fair take on cuttings so may have one for you sometime this late spring or summer. I think it might ball for you, but hey, what do I know? You can email me if you are interested. |
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