Great, bluegirl! I'm glad you bought it! Now, notice each rose entry indicates WHERE that rose came from? With that, you have all the information you need to know how likely it is for that rose to be free from RMV, because you know how it came to be in Vintage's collection. VERY interesting information, isn't it? My latest edition is nearly twenty years old. Guess I need to get the latest one, too. Thanks. Kim

It is a wonderful resource. I wouldn't be without it. It's only too bad that Gregg doesn't have enough time to put out an even newer one. The "new" one has been out for years now.

Oh, yeah! I really appreciate knowing the provenance. Like knowing where Vintage's Gruss an Aauchen (fragrant) came from as opposed to Chamblees (which isn't particularly). Or knowing where their various, similar old Chinas like Slater's Crimson, "Old Gay Hill", " Martha Gonzales", etc., originated.

Also great to keep up with new opinions as to the id of 'found' roses.

I was happily expecting a replacement for my old, high-lighted, underlined, slip-paged, water&dirt stained one.
THIS thing is the size of a small town phone book.

Lol! I see the provenance of some is listed as "KMart"--guess Gregg or his sources aren't immune from snatching up the odd body-bag, either

What no one stops to remember is, it wasn't that long ago, many of these older modern roses were ONLY available as body bag plants. In the mid eighties, I had to obtain many of them that way because NO ONE offered them for sale. It's highly likely the body bag plants you're finding listed in that catalog, followed them home thirty or more years ago. I remember when the only places I could find many older HTs and floribundas were Vintage, Sequoia, ROYAT, Armstrong's catalog, Historical Roses (Ernest Vash) and Rose Acres. Even those selections were spotty and limited, much worse than what we're experiencing today. It wasn't until the early nineties the selection really swelled, reaching its zenith by 2000, just before we began losing sources. Kim

Oh yes, I DO remember--cause I got the rose-bug in the 80s & was so frustrated reading about great roses, ogling the gorgeous pics--& not being able to locate them.

I was thrilled to get Ralph Moore's white sheet lists of so many old varieties. Used to have many plants from him before the GreatRoseWipeout. Still have catalogs of some of the late great nurseries--all annotated, high-lighted & dog-eared.

I'm glad you enjoyed those Old, Rare and Unusual lists. Carolyn used to groan when she knew I was coming to visit. The back end of my car was always FILLED with bags of cuttings from all the neat things which passed through my garden. All the British and Belgian imports I brought in; all the neat things I was able to free up from The Huntington through my propagation volunteer time and efforts; Coffee Roses; single HTs; striped sports; species hybrids; OGRs; Bucks; old minis...any and everything which I was able to obtain and collect from public and private gardens, I ran through Sequoia, and watched them filter through the other sources. Those WERE the "modern golden days" of roses! Kim

That must have been so cool to be an insider!

I ordered every moss, stripe & coffee rose I could. And his Bracteata hybridizations blew me away. I worked daily in pastures infested with 10' high hummocks of MacCartney rose. I always admired the flowers & noticed the hips & occasionally wondered whether it was a breeder rose. Then I'd get a Sequoia catalog & see all the neat roses Mr. Moore was creating. And in the book: The Quest for the Rose , there's an end picture of Ralph holding a bunch of striped seedling blooms--they were so pretty. Boy, I'd love to have prowled around that place. Don't think I'll be getting to CA anytime soon, but if I do, I'm gonna hit the heritage rose gardens.

Huh, my bathroom scale weighs the catalog at between 1-2 lbs (need more accurate scale) & it's definitely a bit over 1/2" thick of 11x8.5" pages of fine type.

This post was edited by bluegirl on Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 23:19

What this book does that no other one does is have drawings of the basic shapes the roses take naturally. I love that.

As you go through the book, you'll find that Kim spread a lot of the roses from his garden to Gregg, too.

Smiles,
Lyn

It's fun to hear you all share the old times. I can feel your enthusiasm. It's wonderful that it has lasted all these years. Lou

OK all you enablers...off I go to the Vintage website...
Thanks.
Jeannie

All this means that preserving what we have left is more important than every. The reservoirs of old roses in out-of-the-way corners that tided us over last time are pretty much depleted. We must keep the nurseries we have going.

Speaking of which - Vintage is having its first 2013 Dirt Day (volunteer work day and pot luck) on March 2nd. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will pass your information along to the person who is organizing it. We always have loads of fun!

Rosefolly

It sounds like my Vintage catalog looks like some of yours :-) It's dog-eared with all kinds of paper clips on pages where I want roses. Of course I can get them all, unfortunately :-(

Yep, Kim has been quite the little Johnny Appleseed spreading roses around--thanks for your generosity Kim!

The size illustrations are a great help, tho the sizes they reach in CA seem to be quite a bit larger than for my climate.

It's very interesting & helpful the way it lists the heritage & uses a better classification method, e.g. tea-noisettes, or listing whether a particular HT is a taller, more HP-influenced type of grower.

I find myself ordering more of the classic old HTs & Floribundas, fearing they won't be available. For example, I have Moonsprite coming from RV. It's such a great fragrant healthy plant, but hard to find. Also Chateau de Clos Vougeot, an early fragrant red HT. A lot of the OGRs are now popular enough that they aren't hard to locate but many of the old great HTs & Floribundas are only stocked by the few remaining on-line nurseries. I sure appreciate their conservation efforts--& those who have donated stock to them.

My pleasure, bluegirl! Imagine how frustrating it is to read of something which seems remarkable, originally produced here and at one time, easily obtainable, but which is NOW only available in Great Britain and India. Brownie, bred by Boerner and introduced by J&P, only available from LeGrice in Britain. Fantan, which both J&P and Wayside, as well as Armstrong and others, sold, only for sale over seas. Once I brought them back to these shores, I HAD to make sure should anything happen to MY plants, there were others available here without importing. Not to mention, preventing others from having to go through that process just to see what I'd seen.

These things dwindle down to only one or two plants, very easily and rather quickly. Something happens to them and they're gone. When I wanted Fiesta, there were only three I could find any trace of in the country. Fortunately, all three were here in California; one at a fellow Huntington volunteer's garden; one at a man whom I met through a Huntington sale's garden; and the one at Vintage. Ironically, all three originated at Roses of Yesterday and Today.

I agree with you about preserving the more recent modern roses. OGRs have been pretty firmly entrenched for the past twenty-five years, but mid century moderns and even earlier moderns are precariously teetering on the brink. Fortunately, they were the ones which flourished best in my old climate and whose cause I championed when possible.

The gardens where these were safely tucked away are disappearing. The days of "botanical collections" are ending, at least in this country. Many are becoming "pretty gardens with roses", good, bad or indifferent. I fear there won't be collections from which to reintroduce many of these things, should there come a time at some point in the future when another "Golden Age" begins.

I encountered just this only last year, but with an OGR. A good friend lost her Cinderella, Noisette, to gophers. It USED to be fairly easy to purchase, but no longer. Now, only nurseries in Japan, France and Germany list it. Fortunately, one of the garden listings on HMF is a friend of mine, from whom I obtained cuttings. One budded plant I generated last year is now growing out back until I can push it enough to provide material to make duplicates for her, in case something happens to the first one. Kim

Just got an email from Vintage Roses. They will be shutting down in June. You can still order but it may take awhile for your order to get shipped. So sad. I was so hoping they would make it. I love his book too.
Mary

I hope that they have a lot of catalogs to sell and that many will purchase and keep their work as a reference guide.

(ordered one today)

Ordered one just now too. I figure they may be hard to find and I'm sure its a wonderful reference! I like the idea of knowing the source of their mother plants as well. Interesting!

Tammy