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Choosing Chinas

Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 4, 14 at 17:14

I would appreciate help in choosing chinas. I have room for 2 or 3. I'm contemplating Le Vesuve and Irene Watts (a friend has suggested them), but looking at HMF, they don't get nearly the votes of many other chinas. And I do like the look of Beauty of Glenmawr and Champion of the World (Mrs de Graw).

Also, would Cramoisi Superieur go near Mutabilis, or is it too red? I very rarely get the chance to see OGR's in the flesh before ordering them.
Trish.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Choosing Chinas

How much space do you have. Mutabilis gets very large, 2-3 m easily. But just about any color goes with it.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Do you like deep colored roses? If you don't already have it, Paul Barden says the perfume of Eugene de Beauharnaise is intoxicating.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 2:30

catsrose, I have the room - I hope! I'm pulling out Ms Tillier and replacing it with Papillon. I plan Mrs Oakley Fisher and another rose next to them.

damask55linen I love the look of E de B, but according to HMF it is not available in Australia. I tried all its names.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Well, Eugene de Beauharnaise seems to be a fine rose but not at all a typical China. To my eyes it looks like a Bourbon or HP.
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 4:09


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Archduke Joseph is a wonderful China. I wouldn't be without it.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

I meant Archduke Charles.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Champion of the World didn't impress me much, rather thorny and I seem to remember mildew. I might have had it in the wrong place, plus it seems to want to be a climber.

Le Vesuve is now often classed as a tea rose, although it does have small leaves. I love this rose, and it will get very large, and likes to spread sideways. Vicious small thorns but does very well in the heat as long as I water and mulch. I have two and wouldn't be without them.

Do you already have Mutabilis? If not I would encourage you to get it although as mentioned it gets quite large. Mine is a beautiful backdrop to my front garden, where it gets afternoon shade.

Ingrid


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 15:41

jaspermplants, I had a look at Archduke Charles and really like it. It will go on the list, and I will find room for it some where, even if it's only in my head!

Ingrid, thanks for that. I will go ahead with Le Vesuve. I do have Mutabilis, and I love it. I discovered on HMF that there's a fairly recently bred near relation with lavender in the mix, forget the name, but not available here.
I am racking my brain for a smallish rose to go next to Mrs Oakley Fisher, and with Mutabilis, Papillon and Buff Beauty. Do you know Hot Cocoa, and, if so, do you think it would go? Again, I've never seen it.
What rose did you end up choosing to hide the neighbours? Was it Mutabilis?

Trish


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Maybe Sophie's Perpetual?


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 16:49

campanula, it's lovely. Now I have a dilemma..........


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 17:03

'Ducher'.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 17:48

The rose we here call the China 'Ducher' is in Australia called the Tea 'Marie Lambert'. I'm passing this on just in case you like what you read about 'Ducher' but have difficulty finding it in Australia.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Yes, Ducher is a wonderful rose!


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RE: Choosing Chinas

I love Mrs Oakley Fisher! You might look at Comtesse du Cayla. She's a smaller, more compact and not so irridescent version of Mutabilis. And yes, Ducher. Also, Arethusa; she's smaller than Buff Beauty and a more peachy-pink color. She was one of my first Chinas, so I always have a soft spot for her.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

I love my La Vesuve, She is glorious when in full bloom. Her blooms tend to nod a bit, and I don't find her fragrant. She does get large!


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Trish - I am so glad you are going ahead with Le Vesuve. It is one of my favorite roses in the world. We had one which attained an age of at least 90-100 years old, and during 3 decades of that time it recieved no care. Here is a pic - do not be afraid - this turned out to be TWO old bushes, not one. It tip rooted at some point and was able to double its size. Pant two, and it will hide neighbors or anything else you want.

I think it does not have as many votes as other chinas because it was almost lost in commerce in the US until very recently, and so not many people grew it. Also, it is not at all a typical china - much fuller, and with very large blooms. You will enjoy it!

Jackie


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 5, 14 at 20:46

Thankyou all for all the suggestions.

bboy, Christopher and jaspermplants, I think Ducher will have to wait, as looking at Jackie's photo of Le Vesuve I both love it and am fearful! My 2 or 3 chinas are now definitely down to 2.

catsrose, great to hear you love Mrs OF.
I have a C de C and am going to shovel prune her. I'm so disappointed as I love the colour when she has a nice bloom, but my plant limps along, the blooms are few and far between and mostly burn. She just doesn't like it here.

Jackie and justkristy, I am so looking forward to having Le V. I'll put her where he/she will block out the shed nicely. and thanks for posting that adrenalin-pumping photo Jackie.


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I adore my Mrs. BR Cant - lovely blooms! Another favorite is Mme. Berkeley. Its a medium size bush and when in bloom, just covered with these beautiful pale pink blooms. Also love Archduke Charles.
Judith


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Trish, I did end up choosing Mutabilis as a screen against the neighbors. Sophy's Perpetual, which camp suggested, is a lovely rose but it was too delicate for my hot climate. However, I may not have given it enough of a chance. It would look great with Mutabilis and your other roses. I'm also quite fond of Spice, a rather quiet rose, which ranges from cream to pink, and has small leaves and a graceful growth habit.

Does the rose have to be a China? I really love La France, which has large cupped and very fragrant pink blooms which hold up well in the heat. Comtesse du Cayla collapsed in the heat and the flowers never looked good. By midday its beauty was gone.

Ingrid


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 7, 14 at 1:46

Ingrid, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. It sounds as if our climates are fairly similar, or at least the way roses prosper............. or not.

La France sounds a very good contender for my conditions, and I will now order it for the 'Tea' circle.

I have ordered Masquerade for the bed with Mutabilis. It goes through the same colour changes as Mutabilis, but Spice looks interesting. I'll think about it for another spot.

Trish.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 7, 14 at 17:23

Ingrid, how big does La France get?

It was such a relief to know that C de C didn't fare well for you either. I feel much less of a failure!

Trish.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Trish, La France has stayed quite small for the last three years, not even three feet tall, but the flowers are quite large, and for such a small bush it bloomed quite a bit last year. I can't wait to see what it will do this year. Another really great early hybrid tea is President du Carnot, although I don't know whether you'll find it where you live. I'm intensely interested in roses that will be tough in my situation and still look beautiful. By the way, Wild Edric, which I received as a completely leafless band on Dec 15 of last year now has lots of leaves and its first bud!

Ingrid


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 7, 14 at 19:49

Ingrid, President is available here, but not Wild Edric, but hopefully it will be in the future. I have another Austen hybrid rugosa, Mrs Doreen Pike. She is a nice shaped bush and has lovely flowers, but they cling determinedly to the plant once dead, so am reluctantly going to shovel prune her. I just don't have room for anything that I don't love, or hope to love!

I notice you have Souvenir d'un Ami. How does it perform for you? I am thinking of getting G Nabonnand, and its sport Peace. Have you ever grown these?

Many thanks for your help.

Trish.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

My Le Vesuve plant has been slow to get established but I planted it in a gravelly area near the street. It is very healthy and reliable, and the petals also seem substantial to me - not prone to burning. It's beautiful but tough.

I think the red of Cramoisi Superieur goes well with most other colors..it leans more towards garnet and not towards orange. It is a great bloomer, healthy and vigorous.

Comtesse du Cayla is a great plant here with fairly frequent big flushes. But the delicate petals do burn without afternoon shade in my climate.


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Trish, if you can get Souvenir du President Carnot I highly recommend it. It's not fragrant, but is beautiful and withstands the heat really well. My Souvenir d'un Ami is overall disappointing, with the flowers often not looking their best. I don't know why that is since it's in a row my other teas that do very well. It's not a very vigorous bush either, and overall I can't recommend it based on my experience. However, it may act differently in your garden.

I've never grown G. Nabonnand and Peace so can't be of help there. I've found that if a rose really appeals to you and has a chance of succeeding in your conditions, it's worth trying. I never thought Bourbons would do well for me and yet Souvenir de la Malmaison is the best rose of all in my garden, and several other small Bourbons are also doing well for me.

Ingrid


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 18:28

erasmus, thanks for that. I've decided against Cr Sup for that spot, got carried away and ordered Masquerade, but I would like to place it somewhere, but where..........?!

Ingrid, I won't bother with S d'un Ami then. It's supposed to get very big, which was a worry anyway, and I will order SdPC. My SDLM does well too. So far the only other Bourbons I've tried are Gypsy Boy (shovel-pruned as hardly any flowers even on 3rd year), Reine des Violettes (1st year plant) and Mme Isaac Pereire , ditto. The latter two have not done much flowering, but I live in hope.

Trish


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RE: Choosing Chinas

just putting another vote in for Archduke Charles! I adore adore adore mine.


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 9, 14 at 16:22

aimeekitty My head is hurting trying to find a spot for it, I love the combination of pink and red.

Trish


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RE: Choosing Chinas

Add another vote for Archduke Charles. If you want a tall upright rose, it's just right. I also love my Ducher, rounded and bushy and much shorter. Seeing that you like Mutabilis with its varied colors as well as AC, perhaps you'd consider the tea rose Mrs. Dudley Cross. I love the color variation - soft yellows and soft pinks. Nearly thornless and nearly bullet proof. Lou


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RE: Choosing Chinas

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 14, 14 at 0:30

Thanks, Lou. I have Mrs DC, and I do love her!


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RE: Choosing Chinas

One more vote for one of Ingrid's favs--La France--since you have the climate for her. La France has a lovely scent and elegant blooms!

Ingrid, it sounds like you created a delightful screen!


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RE: Choosing Chinas

I have La France sport, Duchess of Albany and love her! She is a must-have in my garden.


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