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experiences with pegging roses

Posted by poorbutroserich Nashville (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 20:39

Hello. I have some HP's coming that I'd like to peg. Does anyone have experience pegging roses. Are bourbons good for pegging?
It's my understanding that HP's are heavy feeders.
Any other tips or secrets to share?
Thanks.
Susan


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Hi Susan, anything with large flowers with many petals tend to be "heavy feeders" with higher water needs than your traditional HT or floribunda. It takes resources to generate larger flowers with many more petals on larger, longer canes.

Anything which generates longer canes, sort of like climbing canes, such as many Austin roses as well as many Bourbons and HPs are good candidates for pegging. Generally, you can "peg" using any method which permits you to bend the cane off the vertical so you more evenly distribute the sap flow ALONG the cane rather than only at the cane ends. It's very much how you train climbers and for exactly the same reason...to provide you an armload of flowers on shorter stems rather than a few blooms on many feet long stems.

You have to look at the growth habit of the particular variety rather than simply state "Bourbons". Mme Ernst Calvat is great for pegging while the bush form of Malmaison wouldn't be as it's more China to floribunda type, bushy growth. Kim


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Yes. I've done it several times. It produced massive bloom on roses such as Othello, The Pilgrim, and some others which left alone only bloomed 12 ft in the air. Produced a marvelous ball of bloom on Mime Isaac Pereire.

It took hours. Not a fun task.

After the first big flush, the canes all died back to the highest point, so the plants looked awful.

I am greatful for every learning experience, but this is not one I would repeat.

Jeri


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

With the exception of into downward hanging flowering clusters on multiflora types, sap generally does NOT flow down hill. When you peg, or train climbers, it is usually best not to train the canes down hill, or you will very likely experience what Jeri described...the canes dying back to their highest point. Kim


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I did it once, and after the first bloom is was a mess. However, eventually two of the cane tips rooted instead of dying back, so I got two new roses! It was some sort of as-yet-unidentified-Bourbon which had been growing in our garden for decades, so I was glad to have the new plants.

Jackie


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 12:13

I would have to concur with the others here. I have pegged my Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas and the first season it's marvelous but after that it's a jungle! You end up having to cut the plants way back to let them regrow again. If you really want to try it find something that is naturally supple and will bend and drape gracefully on it's own.


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I think, to be honest, that pegging (or even "self-pegging") is a technique that worked wonderfully on large Victorian-Era estates, where multiple gardeners had the time to mess with these things.

I learned from doing it -- and experience is valuable, but other than that, it was a waste of time and rose canes.

Jeri


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Last year my new bare root Stormy Weather threw a couple of super thick super thorny canes with ruffly flowers. Different from the smooth green flexible canes with the flowers that looked like the photos of the plant.

After looking at those two odd canes for a couple of months I decided to tie they to the picket fence upper rail. Boy did they not like that! The canes looked "angry" about there new horizontal position, but it is a climber so I figured maybe it would be happy this season.

Flash forward to this spring, those angry fat canes are loaded with fresh growth and I am looking forward to seeing what the flowers look like this year. I think I lost a couple of flushes from tying them last year, but am hoping they make up for it this year. I have seen no evidence of the canes growing longer yet or adding on to the tip of last seasons cane. I bet this one would have died like Jeri's if I had pegged it and pulled the tip lower, but it sure is loving being level.


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I pegged Deuil du Dr Reynaud once. It did produce an amazing explosion of bloom so I'm glad I gave it a try. I am also not the slightest bit tempted to ever do this again, and since then I have kept the canes on the short side. If you are intrigued, go ahead and give it a go. It can be fun to experiment. Better to try and satisfy the urge than to always wonder whether you would like it or not.

Rosefolly


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

The capillaries taper as the canes taper. The adhesion factor of water makes it "sticky" so it rises above its own level in a tapered tube. Combine that with transpiration, where the stomata on the leaf reverses "sweat" water as well as the plant's using water for other processes and you have sap flow and sap pressure at the highest points of the plant. That's what pushes new growth from the ends of upward growing plant parts.

Cut off the terminal end of the cane and you have new buds swelling to replace the "leader", like when you cut the top out of a tree and many new branches grow to replace it. There always has to be somewhere for the growth to "escape". Now, bending that growth off the vertical, even if it's only twisting it around a post, and you slow the sap flow, more evenly distributing it along the cane where it pushes many undeveloped buds into growth to replace that terminal leader.

It's also what permits you to grow espaliered apples and other fruits. The horizontal branches produce laterals which generate the fruiting spurs. Those laterals are replacing the leader, that horizontal branch, and have to be pruned back to push new laterals which then fruit when they mature. It's all the same no matter what kind of plant you're dealing with.

"Pegging" differs from training climbers only in that climbers are traditionally fixed to some sort of structure, a fence, trellis, wall, etc. Pegging originally meant to bend the canes over and attach them to the ground by being tied to a peg or stake driven into the ground. Victorian and Edwardian landed gentry had gardening staff who spent their time tying the canes in place, grooming them to produce almost crop circle patterns of flowering rose canes on the lawns, as well as continual weeding and clipping of the grass which continued growing up through the bound and bent canes.

Self pegging is accomplished by tying the canes to free standing stakes then bending them back to themselves and attaching them so they make loops or even hearts. It isn't for everyone as it IS rather labor intensive, but it can provide you the ability to grow larger plants with tremendously greater quantities of flowers in less space. I don't do it at home because it's more work than I wish in my space, but have done it for others for work. Kim


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I am wondering if that Stormy Weather looking angry meant it was red? Extra thorny, extra tall, unusual flowers.. and angry.
I would have surely thought it had RRD. Happily you report it looks good this spring? normal leaf etc?


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Lola, I am in SoCal, so no RRD here that I know of. By angry, it stopped blooming, stopped putting out new growth, the leaves hung droppy. It did not like being told what to do!

But it is happy and pushing new growth all over this year. For what ever reason, on others as well, seems Stormy Weather puts out a bunch of smooth almost thornless canes and then some DNA testers. I would think I was just my plant, but have seen it at a big nursery too.


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Well that's good to hear. Glad Sw has adjusted to her new profile.


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I agree with what Rosefolly said about pegging: "Better to try and satisfy the urge than to always wonder whether you would like it or not." I want to try for myself. Thank you all for your helpful comments!


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I used a modified pegging to save a rose that I was going to shovel prune because it was never a vigorous plant.

I had sited it in a spot where a large fern blocked the light from reaching the rose. When I put a deer cage around the rose, the rose, 'Cardinal Hume', used the cage to help it climb to the light above the fern and then started putting on lots of foliage and bloom.

I decided to experiment with a modified pegging to see if I could get a more vigorous plant. I didn't peg the rose to the ground, but tied it to the deer cage so that the long canes were above the fern.

This year, I made the deer cage much larger and tying the long canes created by the rose while reaching for the light in a more horizontal fashion to the new deer cage and kind of created a shrub rose above the fern. It was like having a new rose. It put out a lot of new growth from those horizontal canes and lots of new foliage and blooms. It even started putting on new basal growth. I think that's because it was getting more natural feeding through photosynthesis.

I can't provide photos this year because a double-jointed starving deer managed to get under the stair rail and down into the deer cage and eat every bit of foliage on the rose.

What's interesting to me, is that as soon as the triple digit temps dropped, the rose put on new foliage and is looking pretty good.

What I learned from my experiment is that it is not necessary to peg a rose to the ground. It will respond well as long as those long canes can be tied into a horizontal fashion. It's going to be interesting to observe what the plant does next year.

Smiles,
Lyn


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

"And when you are advised to let the shoots grow long and then to peg them down, do not yield; it does not answer. For a year or two, it may look well, but it spoils the plants and is a mistake" (from My Roses and How I Grew Them, by Helen Crofton Milman, 1899, quoted in my The Old Rose Advisor in the chapter on HPs).


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Helen Crofton Milman's advice was probably good in 1899 for old roses, but I'm curious about what we can do with the few English roses that have flexible canes. I think it would be interesting to experiment with pegging. Even if it does turn out to be a mistake, that's not so bad. I mean, hey, it's not like trying to get out of a bad marriage ; )

This post was edited by Mountie on Wed, Oct 15, 14 at 15:47


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Old post but I will respond with my experiences. Whenever I have a rose with reasonably lax canes I pull them down horizontally to see if I will get laterals. I usually weight it down with fishing line and a sinker or washer or such.
I've also self pegged roses and have climbers and pillars. I've never pegged a rose to the ground. THAT takes up way too much space and I'm trying to conserve.
Heritage and Munstead Wood are shooting laterals. Even some of my modern HTs are shooting laterals.
I agree Mountie, it's fun to experiment and pretty low risk for the venture!
Susan


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

Most roses, even HTs which aren't "climbing" and whose canes are sufficiently pliable to bend off the vertical, will throw laterals and flower on them. I had a friend here who did it for years so he could cover his stone walls with color. He didn't go for climbers much because he found he got as much color out of bush type HTs as easily and could plant more as they remained much smaller than most climbers did. Try it. You probably won't be able to leave the canes as many years as you might with a climber, but the results can be quite stunning. Kim


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RE: experiences with pegging roses

I'm having fun with it! Seeing who will and won't. Jude the O is putting them out. Radiance is putting them out….
Ascot has gone totally nuts!
Susan


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