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Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 9:42
| I believe I have come to the end of buying roses, at least for the forseeable future. Am I sad? Well, nope, not really. With around 100, I seem to have reached a fairly natural limit in that I have as many of the types, colours and sizes that I need - anything else is just repetition since I invariably select singles, semi doubles, species, hybrid musks, ramblers and the odd shrub type. I mean, how many pink species roses do I need? Out of the half dozen I ordered, I gave 2 to my daughter, plonked 2 anywhere there was a space on the allotment and stuck 2 in pots, waiting (for Godot?) Obviously, if a rose appeared which was significantly different to my others, and was a complete novelty pick, I might be unable to resist but, with no disrespects whatsoever to those of you still in the throes of ordering, I am finding my priorities have become a tiny bit skewed and gardening has been threatening to turn into a mere shopping expedition for more of the same. I am even finding myself berating my greedy tendencies and feeling slightly sickened, given our personal financial woes and the larger ones of our failing economy. Yes, I know that, in an economy built on consumer capitalism, cutting back the spending could be seen as a retrograde step but I actually feel that I am losing track of what was really important to me - attaining skills, nurturing little plantlets from seed, tending my soil, building a garden from what is freely and locally available. So, with the new acreage, it is back to basics for me, remembering the heady days of seed sowing and massive propagation attempts, with a bit of grafting and general meddling thrown in. Naturally, it is easier to be preachy when ones own circumstances forces change upon you but, still, that is as good a reason as any to attempt to step a bit more lightly on the planet and to reinvigorate a lot of youthful idealism which seems to have been degraded by cynicism and complacency (my own). More to the point, there are no funds to be stocking this wood with bought-in plants - they are going to have to come from my own stocks and whatever cuttings and seeds I can scrounge from friends (the 3 I still have) and the local botanics........a stock of 100 roses is as good a place as any to make a start and, since the shady woods are not likely to be welcoming to many of the roses, I feel a new primula (although they are swine from seed) obsession taking root. Of course, writing this (having opened my monthly bank statement) in a state of self-denial (which may not last beyond teatime), it definitely helps to put a moral spin (for the sake of humanity, blah blah) on the situation rather than holding my head in my hands and surrendering to strong alcohol (and stronger drugs). We shall see.......although, as bare root season is now over, this is an easy resolution to keep. Feel free to remind me, next autumn. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by carol6ma_7ari zones 6 %26 7a (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 9:58
| Whew! I panicked at the thought that you meant no more roses; when instead, you just meant no more buying roses. Great relief to realize there won't be a roseless Campanula. Carol |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 10:12
| Ha! I am sure that soon you will be rooting cuttings of some wild rose or other that you find in your woods. We have a cabin in the mountains, and it was years before I realized (I'm slow) that we had a thicket of some sort of small species rose on the property - tiny single blooms about 3/4 of an inch in diameter, and pink, of course. I caught it once when it was in full bloom (for 3-4 days), and it was pretty. Another thought - can you grow hellebores there? I planted them in all of the shady spots in my garden, and they either disappeared, or thrived - here is a picture of some that succeeded. Now I am potting up the tiny babies - free hellebores forever! Jackie |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 10:13
| More hellebores in the shade - I took both of these pictures yesterday - they cheer up the WInter. Jackie |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 10:52
| I think you should cross the ones you love and sell cuttings of the ones that you like and any promising new plants you create. I would love to see the campanula line of roses. You can always trade with people for the ones you want and don't have. |
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| Those hellebores are so pretty--and the bloom time--no wonder they're called Lenten Roses. They are one of the plants I tried to grow for YEARS in my hot sultry old zone--along with campanulas, foxgloves & lavenders. Camp, I rationalize my rose purchases by recognizing that the past, rose-less, 5+ years have really stunk for me & my little hobby keeps me out of the pool-halls. |
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- Posted by sherryocala 9A Florida (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 12:40
| Reality bites sometimes, Campanula. Been there, doing that. Poverty sucks, but roses persist somehow. JUST DON'T LEAVE!! I so agree with Carol!! When will you finally be at the woodland? This too shall pass. Sherry |
Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...
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| Campanula, every time I read about your woods, I am overcome with a longing for Astrantia and think how it would probably be such a good place for them (I don't even THINK of planting them here in Livermore). When I lived in the woods of Massachusetts, they were glorious (did better than most roses did there, for sure). I grew many from sown seed and they seeded themselves. Do you grow Astrantia? I also grew and loved species Primula in Mass., something else that I won't even try here. ~ Debbie |
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| Trade cuttings with friends. Very educational and no $$$. But yeah, how many pink species roses do you need? |
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| Whatever you end up doing, will be right for you. I remember moving into a smaller house a year and a half ago, recognizing the limitations of my age. The smaller house and land are good for me, but I am creating some gardens still. I respect that you are finding-and doing- what is important to you now. Finding time, as it were, to stop and smell the roses. |
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- Posted by harborrose 8a-PNW (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 15:47
| umm,, how many pink species roses do you need ... ? in a garden setting, one would do ya, but landscaping a wooded area? imagine the woods full of them in the spring and summer. Boggles the mind. Not too many other types will be successful there, I don't think...? I like your plan too, Campanula. |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 18:43
| I thought all day about what you said Camp. One of my greatest joys is buying plants. In the not distant future Michael will be retiring and we won't have a lot to spare for nursery junkets.I thought back to the time when I was quite poverty stricken, living in a slum apartment. I actually had a great time aquiring plants for little or nothing and planting on my porch. I took cuttings from a lot of different plants. That was when I took my first rose cutting. I think a passionate interest finds a way. |
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- Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 13 at 17:16
| Hi Camp: How I love your writing? It's smooth and flowy, like a smooth chocolate milk shake, Yum! I agree with you 100% .... 100 roses are plenty to enjoy. One of the best thing I got from Micro-economics class in college is the law of diminishing return. You can only eat that many cakes, after that you puke. Same with roses, one can have that many plants, beyond that, it's sheer work. Thanks, Jackie, for those great pictures ... I'm leaning toward plants that don't prick me, and won't fuss over my alkaline clay. |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Sun, Mar 10, 13 at 1:26
| This is why every garden is different, because every gardener takes a different path. I think it will be great. Gardening is about growing things--all the best gardeners I know are enthusiastic propagators--so you'll have plenty to keep you happy. I grow a lot of my own plants, mostly from cuttings in my case. Getting propagation material is usually the hard part, but there are swaps as well as one's own large supply of plants. I'm in a period when I'm pushing hard to get a lot of different varieties of plants, because DH is getting on in years and won't always be able to dig holes at his current rate, and because I anticipate a not overly prosperous old age. I want to have a lot of plants to mess with, take care of, get to know, make new plants from. It's like money in the bank or a library full of good books I haven't read yet. I think a lot of us are going to be more do-it-yourselfers than in the past. As far as supporting the economy is concerned, I always thought it existed to meet the needs of people, rather than people existing to meet the needs of the economy. I like your goals. Jackie, your hellebores are so pretty! Melissa |
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- Posted by ilovemyroses 8 Dallas TX (My Page) on Sun, Mar 10, 13 at 10:17
| Camp, well spoken. I have an obvious hoarders gene. Thankfully my lot is not huge, so there imposes some restriction. Yet I continue to create beds eliminating grass. At 52 my interests and time spent at home change. While also currently meeting with hospice and watching the slow decline of my lovely father who began in me this instinct for the land, I realize acquiring and enjoying what one does have is the real contentment. And you can't take it with you. He has offered me "whatever I want" in his delightful acreage and I will ease some day lilies into my trunk. Possibly with plant growth being a slowish thing, to those of us with a bit of ADD, acquiring satisfies a more instant gain. But what you say makes sense, and despit my rush to fill a new 1,400 foot bed, seeds and patience (and mulch!) may be the better avenue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Campanula. |
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| Campanula, I hope you have better luck than I. Ever since I stopped buying roses (this is like quitting smoking, I think I've stopped buying roses about as many times as it took me to FINALLY quit smoking). They say smoking is one of the toughest addictions to get over. Well - I succeeded with the smoking...echem. Anyways, my haitus on roses has resulted in me now having accumulated 13 camellias and yes, pathetically, I know their names: Marie Bracey, Tom Knudsen, Showa-No-Sakae, Nuccio's Gem, Nuccio's Pearl, Pink Perfection, Magnoliaeflora, Margie, Setsugekka, Yuletied, Kanjira, Chandleri Eglans Veriegated and Taylor's Perfection. This flower addiction thing is tough. I think we need a "garden steps" program. |
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- Posted by sherryocala 9A Florida (My Page) on Sun, Mar 10, 13 at 11:21
| Suzy, after reading everyone's thoughtful comments on your OP and especially Melissa's I see your OP in a new context, that of what it means to be a gardener for the rest of one's life. It's been good for me to get past your attention-grabbing headline (I scare easily). With your new woodland your gardening parameters have changed and expanded, so it's only right that you should reexamine your gardening mission. Being a relatively new gardener of a particular personality, I need to be constantly shown what it is to be a true gardener, because I'm really not there yet. I've reassessed my gardening perspective before - several times, but my brain still clings to the idea of one day being "done" (and soon). Your post is just one more in a long line of "gardening lessons by Campanula" for which I'm grateful. Keep sharing your gardening mental adjustments. Sherry |
Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...
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| Hey, just returned from grandmother duties (knackering) in Norwich and am now reading your lovely thoughtful responses (which are more than I deserve). So pleased you have all gotten past the whiff of self-pity (which, after watching a heartbreaking TV programme - 'Poor Kids in America', I am really hoping to expunge). There are so many factors at play here (not just lack of funds) especially the move from restricted space to a space almost 80x larger. Obviously, any purchases would be such a tiny drop in the ocean that it is more feasible to consider scale, both over time and across space. When I did a lot of seed sowing at the allotment, it was always something of a quandary since I only ever required a couple of plants of each type so even a packet of seeds represented a huge surplus (although seed swaps have been really great on that score). Now though, I have a couple of hundred foxgloves waiting to be transplanted - enough to have an impact on 5 acres of woodland, but a ridiculous number for an allotment. For sure, I often had vague plans to sell surplus plants but, being a completely rubbish business person, they ended up being given away willy-nilly or even guerilla planted around town. Because, it takes as long to sow and grow 1 campanula or geranium or penstemon as it takes to produce 100, the woodland does not seem insurmountable. Even better, unlike my lease at the allotment, this land is ours FOR EVER so there is no rush to fill the space. I have done a 5 year, 10 year and 50 year plan. 50 years! Obviously, it will be someone else's responsibility by then but really, there is no need to hurry because we have the rest of our lives (so true, Sherry) Also, I had an intimate relationship with my plants - I knew the provenance of every one of them and would swoop on individual specimens to admire and fuss over. With a much larger space, the bigger picture comes into play....which is why the minute differences between individual roses ceases to matter while the whole landscape as a collection takes on more significance. A bit like standing back and squinting - each single plant loses its individual quality and the view becomes much more impressionistic, even vague. It may be that once the overall feeling of this new space has been defined, I can get a bit more precious with special treasures rather than sweeps or drifts - I think Pamela and Melissa and Ingrid, all of whom have been developing a similarly sized area or working on a garden over a long timescale, would have some useful insights into how this project might work out. I have to say that excitement overcomes trepidation and certainly keeps some of the anxiety at bay. Whatever, I am not feeling deprived of buying specific roses, or any other plant, since it is back to basics for me with a whole new learning curve to explore. Those of you further along in a lifework, please shed more illumination - I am greedy for knowledge and information instead of plants. |
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| I am "further along in life work" and would suggest that your plans include, like Melissa's, doing the bulk of the work up front and tapering to less and less demanding projects as time passes because time passes quickly and your interest in hard labor with it. I do not mean to sound depressing because it is not. It is merely a matter of managing your resources to best effect. Cath |
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- Posted by zeffyrose_pa6b7 6b7 (My Page) on Sun, Mar 10, 13 at 23:17
| Camp---Your posts are always so interesting---also enjoyed the replies----My gardening is very limited these days----but I still love to read what everyone is doing Florence |
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| Oh Cath, my interest in hard labour has always been limited......but I see what you are saying - most clearly. Thank you. Zeffy - I was wondering where you were (almost posted a query) - extra glad to hear from you - always so gently encouraging and sweet. |
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- Posted by zeffyrose_pa6b7 6b7 (My Page) on Mon, Mar 11, 13 at 12:02
| Camp---thank you for your kind remark-----after two hip replacements and two back surgeries in the past 10years the pain has reared it's ugly head again---I've been going through a series of shots ---so far no relief---sitting is most painful so I really have not been on Garden web very much----Waiting to find out what the next step will be---gardening is out of the question---maybe a little walking with a cane----I do love to read what everyone is doing but don't have much to offer-- Take care and good luck with all your projects. Florence |
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| Campanula, Your comment about raising primroses from seed reminded me that Tasha Tudor ( a gardener and children's book author) recommended planting them and leaving them outside, covered with a pane of glass so that water will not get into the pot. I had better luck using this method than previously. They seem to need the freezing and thawing that Nature provides to germinate well. You would think from this message that I have tons of primroses. Not so. They die in the hot humid summers. I did have one that endured several years. I think that it was a polyantha, pale yellow with a 6" stem. I loved it and divided it several times. But I kept it in the same bed and it eventually declined and died. The English writers say this is inevitable if they are kept in the same place many years. Have you found it so? Cath |
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| Sigh...so happy for you! Ignore my sigh it is only present because I too have been considering stopping. I have 60 roses on my less than quarter acre semi-suburban country lot. I was aiming for 100 (some in pots) but the drought condition in North Texas is so discouraging, I have planted several drought tolerant earth kind types but let's face it ....roses like rain water a lot more than they do recycled or faucet water. I re use bath water, dish water etc. Fun now as a young un, but will not be able to keep up in the next 15-20 years. I respect your decision. A certain maturity tells us when it is time to stop. I wish I had gardened more when I lived in rainy, cool ,Ole Blighty (England), Best wishes. |
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| Hi Cath, Yep, primula do need rotating around and, like many plants, will not tolerate being planted in the same place (wallflowers are notorious for this). However, they are really easily to divide - I split a pot of auriculas (somewhat brutally) last year into 37 offsets -I have not yet decided what to do with 37 identical pots of auriculas apart from using them as some sort of edging. The common primrose really needs to be divided every 3-4 years as they do eventually get really congested. Sowing from seed is easy when the seeds are fresh and green - they will germinate within a couple of weeks. Once the seed has dried out and gone into dormancy, it can be a different ballgame indeed, requiring exact conditions of chilling and warming to germinate.....and the some of the asian primroses such as P.secundiflora are really tricksy. Still, as one of the most desired harbingers of spring, we must have them. The scent of a posy of freshly picked primroses wins over any rose, in my book. Many times over the long and dreary winter, the occasional sniff of a single fugitive auricula was the only thing which kept my spirit intact. Yeah, Stopshops, once the plants start to become an onerous duty instead of a reviving pleasure, it is also time to re-examine our priorities. One of my poorer decisions was to give up social work in order to become a full-time gardener - I very nearly lost the thing I loved and rapidly parlayed my energy into the more lucrative task of landscaping: although I didn't exactly leap for joy while humping yet another load of sand into the cement-mixer, I never had to gnash my teeth in rage at yet another insane demand for tropical planting themes - in cold wet Blighty! |
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- Posted by aimeekitty 9-10, SW 18 (My Page) on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 13:00
| I know what you mean "shopping expedition for more of the same". I looked at a few people's recommendations for roses to buy from Vintage (even though my garden is full) and I looked at the pics at HMF... and thought "boy that is pretty, but it's very similar to this other one I already have". I guess I mostly have what I want and what I have space for. I'm content. And I need to focus on spending money on two babies, not a bunch more roses I don't have room for. :) Though I do really want to replace my recently died (through my fault) Mme. Berard. |
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| Oho, Aimee, you will be spending enough money on the babies....for the next 50 years or so. Get used to child-related poverty. But yeah, another rose has to be a bit special....or unique.....or a gift! |
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| I have come to the same conclusion with my horses. I raised Arabians for 35 years, and now Miniature Horses since 1986. Have had years of fun and success, but now its getting to be work - all the foaling, no sleep, then dealing with buyers......so I am cutting down my breeding, leaving mares "open" and generally cutting down the work load. Frankly...I would rather garden. I ordered too much from Vintage - but this is the last hurrah for many roses to be had from them, so I just ordered what I wanted. I love tending the baby bands..thinking of a raised bed formal garden for them....but in truth - the passing of time brings us all up short. Knee surgery in 2010 and 5 months on a walker clarified my perspective on how much I can do. I am as strong and active as ever now......but that can change. Still.....this is what I want to do now, so will carry on. Just as Vintage Gardens has had their time - everything changes. Whoever said the only thing permanent is change was correct. As long as one can rise in the morning anticipating the fulfillment of a happy and productive day - changes made along the way are of no consequence. Judith |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Fri, Mar 15, 13 at 13:19
| Maybe you won't be buying so many more new plants but now you have the space to let them get very large and beautiful. I think that's a happy thought. I still think you could get free cuttings if you asked. People let me trade cuttings for little bags of bulbs or potted flowers from seed when I ask. There are so many good non patent things out there to trade for. |
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| cripes, Judith, horses really are hard work. Not that I have any myself (too wimpy to cope with being 3metres high on a great hunk of living beastie) but I have friends (amazingly) who do have them....and it is an endless to and fro, feeding, letting them out, putting them in, walking, shoeing...on and on. No question, plants stay in one place (usually), make no moans or complaints, just neatly fade away and, best of all, go dormant during the most miserable months of the year. Gardening must be like a permanent holiday in comparison. |
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