I don't think this is what would normally count as a north-facing wall, since the rose would quickly overgrow the short fence and face sunward. There's no telling whether it would get enough light from the dappling to bloom well, but sounds worth a try.

A true north-wall situation may get brief sunshine in summer mornings or evenings but gets most of its light from the open sky and reflected from structures to the north. It wouldn't work under a tree.

When the English are talking about growing things on a north wall, it is important to remember that they are far enough north, that the summer sun spends a fair amount of time on the north side.

The link below gives a cute little application to show how the sun moves depending on time of year and latitude.

Here is a link that might be useful: NOAA Solar Calculator

Thanks for the clarification Michael and Mad Gallica.
So from what I understand it's a hopeless case.
But I might give it a try out of desperation ;)

Thanks for the link Mad gallica. It was not much of a comfort, though.

Dear trueblue.

England lies between the 51 and 55th parallel.

The most densly inhabited parts of Canada lie between the 45th & 60th. parallel. I don't know where in Canada you live, but I doubt England is very much more north than you. Remember that you have longer summer days and more daylight the further north you go.

I think your project is worth trying with maybe alba maxima or semiplena to start with. I have always found Maiden's Blush rather difficult to get started. Pickering sells large vigorous albas grafted onto multiflora.The grafted plants do take off sooner and might be a better bet for a tough location.

Hi nastarana, thanks for the encouraging message,
I live in Montreal, QC, which is at 45 parallel.
Britain is between 51 - 55th parallel.

I buy my roses from Pickering.
I was planning to try,

Great Maiden's Blush
Semi-plena
Félicité Parmentier

Alba maxima is a sport of semiplena, or maybe it is the other way around. Both are so ancient that no one knows for sure. Both can be identified on late medieval-early rennaisance paintings. I have found GMB rather challenging to start on its own roots. FP is a shorter growing alba hybrid from the 19thC. I would start with one of the older varieties. If you do go ahead with your plan, please keep us posted.

Thanks for the info, one always learns a lot on this forum.

if I'll go for it, I'll post on this thread again :)

I second the suggestions of trying Maiden's Blush and Maxima, Felicite Parmentier does seem to be a bit less cane hardy if it hardiness is a challenge in the area. However it is a hardy rose and grows tall enough to train against a trellis. The north facing wall seems like well worth the attempt to me.

Thanks so much for the recommendations.

I was focused more on semi-plena, but I'll give Maxima a thought.
From what I gather Maxima is bigger than semi-plena, has double flowers, but as one is the sport of the other, I assume they have the same type of fragrance, or am I wrong?

The thing is the more I think about, that area is quite shady, and honestly I'm not sure if any rose can thrive there and flower, with dappled light and if lucky an hour max 2, botchy direct sun light, from May till September. (It is full sun from October till Mid May, but that's no helpful is it?)

So, I'm trying to think of a better spot, light wise, which will receive 2/3 hours of direct sunlight. But I will be obliged to curtail itâÂÂs spread and force it up the cherry tree, at 2 feet distance. It's a rather tight spot and furthermore it will have root competition :(

So, thatâÂÂs where I am for the time being.

You may want to look at spinossisimas. Mike Lowe grew his under trees that leafed out somewhat late. So they got full sun during the same part of the year as your spot, but were in a lot of shade during the summer. The more commonly available ones are fairly large, but Pickering has a decent selection.

Mad Gallica, that's an interesting suggestion, thank you.

Pickering has only Frühlingsduft, Frühlingsgold and Stanwell Perpetual.
I might be able to get Double Scotch White/ Pink from another nursery, which is really beautiful rose but I'm not sure, if it can become a "statement" rose, like the Albas.

At this point fragrance and size are the most important factors. It seems that Stanwell Perpetual is the most fragrant.

I like the fact that they thrive on neglect :)

Hi,

I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughtful input, suggestions and encouragements :)

I finally ordered an Alba semi-plena from Pickering.

I'll post updates, later on, so other people can benefit from my experience.

Well after two years, I just wanted to post an update.
I know two years, is nothing in the life of a rose, but here goes:

I got semi-plena last year and planted not where I intended but close to a cherry tree, where it receives full sun till mid May, just before the trees leaf out.

Nowadays the average direct sunlight should be around 2 hours.

The plant grew quite a bit (5/6 feet) and went through the winter without a hitch. Well most of it was under snow.

And this year it is full of blooms. A couple of days ago, she surprised me with her first bloom. Suffice to say it was en emotional moment!

The great thing being under the tree is that, in case of rain showers, the flowers are less affected.

I really love this rose. Besides it's hardiness, it has the most beautiful blooms, foliage and form and the fragrance is lovely. And of course it has the distinction of being my first OGR.

I sometimes wish, I'd gone with my experiment and planted more Albas. I might still go through with it :-)

True Blue, I'm so glad your experiment suceeded! I have had great luck with albas in shade, especially Semi Plena. That one was a good first choice. I'd encourage you to continue your experiment. I'm pushing a couple of gallicas into deeper shade this year. We'll see how Apothecary and Rosa Mundi like the dark side ofthe garden. Carol

Your semi-plena is beautiful, true-blue. I am glad your experiment is a success. What alba will you plant next?

Very happy for your bloom. I too have to contend with shade although being in California gives me an advantage.

Albas are supposed to be very shade tolerant. Below is a link to Rogue Valley Roses' description of Great Maiden's Blush which they list as very shade tolerant.

Good luck.
Diane

Here is a link that might be useful: Great Maiden's Blush at RVR

I have Darlow's Enigma growing on the north wall, it's fragrant and it blooms 24/7, if you have another spot.......

True Blue, Semi Plena is pretty in summer, clothed in healthy blue-green foliage. In fall, she shows off her lovely hips. She's a graceful grower, an all around near perfect rose. Makes a wonder large shrub, wall shrub or climber. If you end up with only one alba in your garden, Semi Plena is a great choice. Beautiful pics of your plant and bloom! Delightfully sited against the taupe-gray fence and behind the Hakonechloa macra Aureola. I've just replanted my Felicite Parmentier in quite a bit of shade. Fingers crossed. Someday, all of us who are shade gardeners should begin a thread with photos. I'm in the process of relocating chunks of plants, so maybe I'll post next spring/summer. Diane and I have been egging each other on. :-) Carol

Yes, a beautiful foliage and color composition. And of course, the rose.

Cath

And is that Charlie Chaplin on the fence?

Thanks a lot both of you.

I think it is a good idea to start a thread about roses in shade. I see many a rose, growing in less than optimal situation in my walks.

And yes it is Chaplin :-)

I have my Great Maiden as a foundation planting up against the north side of my home. She only gets very early morning sun and then she gets a smidge at the end of the day as the sun goes down.

She thrives. I didn't think she would at first and I agree with the comment above that she might be slower growing to start in your less than ideal situation.

{{gwi:236554}}

Finally back to her old self/size this year...(she was transplanted into my current garden in 2010)

I *will* say though that in this kind of shade I do often see even hardy GMB with some powdery mildew...but for whatever reason, this has been the most glorious year gardening :: knocking on wood :: and I've had none this year.

I've had this plant since 2002.

She can take a lot of abuse...if you have the heart to give her some space (and she needs a LOT) I think you probably could. But ofc this is only my experience.

[EDIT to add that I also grow Blanche de Belgique, Blush Hip, and Felicite Parmentier (who might be shovel pruned next year, to be honest, she does NOT want to grow own-root in the shade for me, what a pity)...used to grow the KvD but left her behind...GMB is my favorite of the class...and people would probably be shocked to see the full list of what I have growing in shade.]

Cheers!
~Anika

This post was edited by gothiclibrarian on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 6:23

That's one beautiful bush. Is that one rose? It seems like it likes to spread doesn't it? Is it own root?

How tall is it?

Wow that's a lot of roses in shade. Thanks for the info. Was your KvD as big as your GMB?

Personally in my climate, I wouldn't go for a grafted rose. I'm too impatient ;-) If I want it to sucker, I'll plant it deeper and let it root....