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| Several of you have spoken so highly of Souvenir de la Malmaison, so I looked it up at helpmefind--it is lovely! But I can't get a clear or consistent picture of it--the whole bush--in my mind. I've never seen an old garden rose in real life, so haven't much to compare it to.
Could you help me "see" it by describing your Souvenir de la Malmaison? How tall and wide? One source said 2ft tall, but HMF says 2-6ft--that is quite a choice. Is the bush shape attractive? How is its disease-resistance? I see it is hardy to zone 5, but does it truly need only a bit of tip pruning each spring? How does it take hot, hot, hot sun in July and August? Do the blooms bleach to white? How fast does it grow? As for the blooms, I'm already convinced they are beautiful, but are they 5 in. large, as HMF says? My biggest problem is where to put it--the sunniest spots are already taken--but I'll work on that. I am really taken by this rose. Kate |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| It never makes long shoots. The 2' shoots terminate promptly in a bloom or cluster of three. Sometimes it makes two or three shoots from a single site, as tea roses are inclined to do. Some of these come out at odd low angles. If there is not severe winter damage, it makes a full shrub of semi-upright, spreading habit, as wide as tall, with blooms all over the plant, not just at the top. In your climate that might be 3 x 3. I'd expect you'd have some winter damage each year, but usually not to the ground. Where lows reach zero, it may take a few years to build to 3'. In zone 8 it is around 4 x 4. The flowers have outstanding form and fragrance, and will keep a few days. 4" flowers are not unusual. They are susceptible to balling in cool wet weather. The sport 'Mystic Beauty'' from Roses Unlimited balls less and is otherwise nearly identical. It has plenty of dark foliage, which is reported BS resistant in Texas, but not here. |
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 I have 12 SDLM, and they are so beautiful. They came through our harsh winter well, and they enjoy the hot summers. I just love them. I have not touched my roses with any kind of spray for years now, and that suits SDLM just fine. I had one on the hillside that grew quite large, but mine are happiest when they are on the small side. That is why I prefer three together. I thought I had more pictures in Picture Trail, but I don't. I will try to find some more current ones of three together and post them. I really love this rose. Sammy |
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| Mine are about 26x28. They bloom heavily, but when I cut them back, the bush looks better to me at this height. That is why I like three together. Had I seen Michael's post, I would have put all the information together, but the system stalled on me again so I had to re-submit my rose. (The pictures of the ads don't bother me as much as how long it stalls the computer to load them. Our computer is rather modern, so I really feel sorry for those of you who are struggling with these ads all the time.) Sammy |
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- Posted by sherryocala 9A Florida (My Page) on Sat, Mar 26, 11 at 12:17
| Kate, I have 2 about 2 years old that are about 3' tall x 4' wide. Mine don't really get BS, but after a bloom some leaves turn yellow with a black spot or two on them and then drop off while the bush puts on new growth and then starts a new blooming cycle. The cycle is pretty quick. She starts blooming really early in my garden and never stops. I saw an old one that was 6' tall by about 8' wide but I think it was labeled as the climber and the canes at the base were a good 2" thick, so you know it was very mature. Mine grows as Michael described and doesn't seem to want to get big - just pumps out the flowers. Obviously, my cold is much less severe than yours, but it isn't effected at all by it. I'll take a photo of one of them that stands by itself this weekend. The other one is growing near other roses and it's hard to see the bush at all. You just see flowers. Sherry |
Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...
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| My conditions are very different from yours, much drier and with mild winters. The flowers almost never ball here, are about 4 inches across, and do fade in the summer heat, although the bush has afternoon shade. It's well clothed with foliage, wider than tall, with very good rebloom. It has no disease here. It's still a young plant but I have seen a mature specimen, closer to the ocean than I am, that had HUGE flowers, at least 5 inches I would think. To me they almost looked too large in relation to the size of the plant. In your harsher climate I don't know that they would reach 5 inches. Four inches actually looks better to me. Ingrid |
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| Mine is two feet tall, I grow it as a compact bedding rose. It has lovely foliage, and forms a nice small shrub. The repeat bloom is very good. It likes summer heat and blooms well in August. I don't think the blooms are five inch, 3 1/2 inch seems more the correct size. The blooms are lavish, and full of petals, so they do have a lovely antique appearance. The color is variable, and can fade in the sun, so the blooms can look very pale at times. It does get blackspot late in the season, but I've not found this to be a problem for it. It does have some cane dieback in the winter, but rebounds well. I prune off more than just the tips. It makes a beautiful cut flower, and I like to bring blooms indoors all summer long.
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| Very interesting--I'm thinking hard on this rose. Where to plant it may be the big problem--but maybe I'll figure out something that needs to be moved to make room for Souvenir de la Malmaison. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, but I should be able to get out in the garden in a day or so. Thanks for all the input. In the meantime, any other eye witness reports would be greatly welcomed. Kate |
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| HMF would give you some pretty pictures even though you will not get first hand opinions from those who live near you. |
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- Posted by professorroush 5b (My Page) on Sun, Mar 27, 11 at 8:57
| Not really hard in Kansas in Zone 5b Dublinbay....I've lost a couple of them. More consistent Bourbon's for me are Variegata de Bologna, Louise Odier, and Zephirine Drouhin. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog
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| Professor, did Louise or Zephrine bloom much more than one time for you? Zephrine climbed all over, but gave me a good spring bloom, and very little more after that. Louise was undoubtedly the most beautiful color, but one good bloom, then a few scattered blooms. As far as Bourbons go for me, Maggie has been great. But with this year's harsh freezes and unusually low temps, thke Maggies suffered (all four of them), so I would not recommend them for your area. On the other hand SDLM did not even lose leaves. Roses can be so finicky. Souvenir de St. Annes' and Kronprincessin Viktoria are not particularly outstanding to me. SDLM likes my area. There is another member here who is not that pleased with hers, and we live in the same city. I have even purchased all of my SDLM from two different nurseries and years apart. Michael has promoted Mystic Beauty in the past, and I wanted to purchase it. His reasons are good, and I would have done it, but there were not three others that I wanted at that time. Considering that others around my city are not that crazy about SDLM, you might want to select another, and be safe. Sammy |
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- Posted by buffington22 Z8 Louisiana (My Page) on Sun, Mar 27, 11 at 9:56
| One of my favorites! I have 3, one is older than the other 2 and has tons of buds with a few opened. The fragrance is heavenly. The cut flowers keep for several days inside. The stems are pretty short, though. My mature plant has a nice rounded shape, with healthy foliage. She behaves similarly to Sherry's in Fla. I love her very much! |
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- Posted by idixierose z8b Coastal SC (My Page) on Sun, Mar 27, 11 at 10:47
| Ah, the legendary SDLM! So beautiful, yet at times so frustrating. Pro: the delicate beauty of the blooms with their lush fragrance, the bushes rebloom quickly and continuously From spring through fall. The bush seems to like a warm climate. Con: The bush develops slowly and often new growth has an awkward shape. here in the Lowcountry of South Carolina, it's disease prone. Mystic Beauty is similar to SDLM in terms of the size of the bush and the continuous flowering. IMHO, it's much more vigorous and easier to grow. But to my nose, SDLM is much more fragrant than Mystic Beauty. |
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| I've killed three of them here. Love the beautiful flowers, but the bush is very small, never topped 2' tall, and since I don't spray it tends to get BS and be weak so that it doesn't reliably live through our winters. Some winters it would survive and regrow from any top damage, but then every few years I'd lose mine. I finally gave up on it. I grow the climbing form and it is much more robust and hardy with the identical wonderfully scented flowers. Gets bare around the bottom, as you'd expect with the blackspot, but that can be hidden by other plants. |
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| I purchased my SdlM about 5 years ago from Pickering. I kept hearing "she's a small rose and isn't all that hardy". "Keep her in a pot." SdlM was in a big pot about 14" across which she easily outgrew in 2 years. Into the bed she went and our winters don't phase her one bit. A giant spring flush with lots of repeat blooms. The only thing that bothers her is rain and humidity which will cause her to ball. She will reach 5' by the end of June. June flush. Note the height of the buds in the back.
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- Posted by floridarosez9 (My Page) on Tue, Mar 29, 11 at 21:40
| Harryshoe, that's a beautiful shot of a beautiful rose. |
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 AZ (My Page) on Wed, Mar 30, 11 at 13:34
| My SDLM is probably 5 years old and is about 6 feet tall and 4 feet wide. I do trim it back a couple times a year. In my hot climate it's a vigorous grower. Blooms all the time except for our hot summers. Mine does tend to get some mildew though, maybe more so than my teas and Chinas. It's a beautiful rose. I wouldn't be without it. |
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I Have SDLM & It's about 5 ft tall My friend kit is about 5'4" Kronprincessin Viktoria is the white Sport of SDLM she is standing next to it the pale pink directly behind it is SDLM and has about the same structure.  Sometimes it seems like just another pink rose with a beautiful fragrance & at other times the variations in the color seems to have a light & color the camera just doesn't get. Light pinks, deeper pinks, a touch of gray/lavender pink. 
Do you get the idea that I love this rose enough to have it's other sport Capt Dyel de Garville a deeper pink version & SDLM ROUGE which may or may be yet another deeper pink version of it. |
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- Posted by jumbojimmy Australa (My Page) on Sat, Apr 2, 11 at 4:25
| labrea - seems like your SDLM is growing in a shady area. Don't you have problems with mildew? Mine is covered in mildew. And doesn't bloom. |
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| It is said to be mildew-prone on the US west coast. |
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| I grow mine own root in the same area as Lori. Planted on the East side of my home SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON is a stellar performer. The 3x3 foot shrub is nearly always in bloom and the foliage is more black spot resistant than most Old Garden Roses. If grown completely no spray, however, she will eventually black spot and drop all her leaves in late summer, and this is what makes or breaks her in zone 6b. I spray my roses infrequently with Mancozeb approximately once every three or four weeks. Here in Black Spot Hell many roses will still get spotted and defoliate with that schedule, but SdlM stays clean. Because she isn't stressed by having to constantly replace her foliage the plant can build up enough vigor to get through our winters without any dieback. As for balling I've noticed SdlM handles humidity just fine provided there is enough heat to open the blooms. She only ever has this problem during cool wet springs. This spring has been very cool yet the humidity hasn't been bad so every single bud opened. Besides, a little bit of balling is a small price to pay for her kind of floral decadence. When people ask me what an Old Garden Rose looks like I always point to a bloom of SdlM. The quartering of the flower formation is always pure perfection, and the fragrance is both strong and complex. Bloom size is medium to large with good vase life, and everybody adores the pale pink color and translucent petals that have the texture of fine French silk. If I had the room I'd grow twenty of SdlM and I'm dying to try the climber. She looks especially fetching planted in front of HERITAGE as both are warm pinks and harmonize together beautifully. Image of SdlM by Archduke-7b-8a at Hortiplex |
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| I have her in a not too sunny spot. She is smallish, but blooms well. I agree that in humid climates she does need some spraying, but isn't a true BS magnet. I haven't noticed a scent, but I will now check. |
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- Posted by jeannie2009 PNW 7/8 (My Page) on Sun, May 13, 12 at 5:41
| Wow from coast to coast many of us love this rose. Add me to the list of lovers. Mine is entering her second season so my info is not as reliable as others who have had her longer. We live in the Pacific North Wet. Cold wet winters and dry summers. I do not spray. I water in the summer occasionally. She's doing fine. At the end of the season a small amount of BS or a BS clone and so far no Mildew. But this is not an area that is prone to Mildew. Atleast not in my garden. We also have a sport of hers Souv. de St. Anne which is quite similar but the blooms are less full and so they dont ball in the late spring when it can get pretty moist around here. Give either of them a try. You wont be disappointed. Bourbons seem to be quite adaptable. Jeannie Oh mine grows in full sun. |
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- Posted by SpiderLily7 8B (My Page) on Sun, May 13, 12 at 7:08
| Among the many Bourbons I've collected, I have SDLM planted in front of Climbing SDLM at a prominent corner that can't be missed by visitors. Both were a year old when put in the ground and after two seasons, I understand why some rose lovers pronounce SDLM to be the most beautiful of old garden roses. When she achieves perfect bloom, there is nothing like her fully quartered form, delicate coloring, and fragrance. Makes it completely worth the occasional BS or balling in my no spray garden in south Louisiana. |
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- Posted by ken-n.ga.mts 7b/7a (My Page) on Sun, May 13, 12 at 12:25
| I have 2 SDLM's planted in front of my front porch. I keep them at 4x4. Nice bush in between bloom cycles. While in bloom , not only are the flowers beautiful, the fragrance is fantastic. There will ALWAYS be SDLM in my garden. |
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| Since this thread has been revived, let me update everyone. By some process I no longer remember, I finally decided to buy Mystic Beauty rather than SDLM--I remember I was assured by several people that Mystic Beauty is nearly identical to SDLM, but maybe a little pinker. Mystic Beauty is everything you all described--somewhat on the small side, but a heavy bloomer--and the most exquisite blooms at that! I love them. Almost no BS problems--maybe a spot here or there, but that is about it. Otherwise it is healthy. If I had room, I'd order a couple more Mystic Beauties. Since I don't have room, I'll focus all my attention on this one beautiful rose. Here's a picture from last year. For some strange reason, I haven't taken one this year yet. Isn't it beautiful? Mystic Beauty Thank you everyone for talking me into this lovely, lovely rose. Kate |
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| Thank you for reviving this thread. These photos are amazing - SDLM is beyond gorgeous. There will have to be one in my garden someday... |
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- Posted by kristimama (My Page) on Mon, May 14, 12 at 1:09
| I am in Northern California, in the East Bay with hot dry summers but still close enough to the bay to get marine influence. My SDLM get quite a bit of mildew and balling in the winter, but---in a pot on a hot patio---she outgrows this by june and blooms basically from May to December nonstop. I am willing to overlook her ugly mildew and balled blooms in the winter and early spring for the beauty she gives me the rest of the year. I have been told that Bourbons won't do well in my climate, but SDLM seems to defy the rules. (The other bourbon everyone in my neck of the woods adores is Zepherine Drouhin, but I've never tried it.) In my initial rose buying, I bought a couple of these because my DH loves this rose, and as luck would have it a couple of my bands were doubles that I split into 2, so I have a few SDLM to play with. Up until now I've only grown her in large containers on my patio, but this spring (enabled by this post, thankyouverymuch) I'm going to venture out into putting her in the ground and see what happens. (I figure, I have a few so if one fails, there's nothing lost.) No, she's not thornless, which is usually a deal breaker for me. But there's something about SDLM---maybe it because she is my first antique rose love---or maybe just that her growth habit makes her thorns less intimidating. She's a beauty. |
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| Here she grows in almost complete, though dappled, shade. I've had her since the early 1980s and she has only produced a few blooms a season. I thought that it was because of the shade. However, thanks to you ladies and gentlemen I gave her alfalfa two or three time last summer and fall and once this spring. She produced 10 flowers on 2 canes in April. It will be interesting to see what the rest of the growing season brings. I do not spray and compared to other roses she does not suffer much from black spot. Her ability to survive in a difficult position is outstanding. Cath |
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| It's a continuous bloomer for me as is Kron Princessin Viktoria. This Spring was unusual very early heat produced lots of buds about 35 on and the first time it's had powdery mildew ain Spring. It turned cool & rainy again The last few days all that cleared up. |
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- Posted by gothiclibrarian 5b (My Page) on Tue, May 15, 12 at 7:24
| I thought I'd add my favorite 2012 photos of SdlM since I just moved her, much to her anger, and am not sure she'll relent to perk up and return. Her blooms were a bit water-damaged in my garden this year, but still pretty and oh-so-fragrant.
She's wonderful, even in partial shade. In my 5b (now 6a if you're a USDA purist) garden she grows well...does have winter die-back (providing you, you know, HAVE a winter, which we really didn't this past year). Does tend to get PM.
Her buds have an almost iridescent quality to them...mother of pearl... ~Anika |
Here is a link that might be useful: GothicLibrarian.net
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| I am getting her in June (YAY) and I can't wait!! Is she a slow grower and what about the root suckering, is it bad? |
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| My plant doesn't sucker but yes she is a slow grower on her own roots and will never be a big rose. Like I wrote earlier she is nicely shaped petite shrub at approximately 3x3 feet. Enjoy. |
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Heres my SdlM     Even though mine is still a baby it has a huge bloom on it (YAY) and it has a light delicate scent to it. |
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| I'm reviving this thread. As I type SdlM is one of the few roses still producing blooms in November. At this rate I'll have flowers for Thanksgiving. Phenomenal rose. |
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- Posted by jumbojimmy Australa (My Page) on Fri, Nov 15, 13 at 17:17
| Molineux please show us some pics. A picture tells a thousand words. I just got a sdlm this year and so far it got plenty of buds. The first bloom i had look really nice just like a folded souvenir/ hanky-chief. I dont know why i didnt grow this rose earlier! The bush form is much better than a climber. |
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| As I mentioned above, I bought Mystic Beauty--nearly identical to SDLM--instead of SDLM. That was a couple years ago, and it is still one of the loveliest and most prolific and disease-resistant roses in my garden. You can't go wrong getting either Souvenir de la Malmaison or Mystic Beauty. Near twins and both are wonderful. I believe Mystic Beauty is available only at Roses Unlimited. |
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| When I wrote my comment above in 2011 I mentioned that the blooms tend to be paler in summer but that's actually no longer the case. They're recognizably pink all summer long, backed by a bush that is slowly getting larger and wider, and is so dense that you can't see the soil underneath. It's arguably my best rose and certainly one that blooms the most no matter what the season. It may have a little mildew at times but no blackspot, and it never defoliates, and the leaves are always green. I don't know what more one could ask of a rose. And, of course, it's fragrant. Ingrid |
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- Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 16:17
| Just for a contrasting note about SDLM, it's one of those roses I simply cannot keep alive in my zone 5 Nebraska yard. I think between the dry summers and colder winters, it doesn't like my climate. I've tried at least 4 times for SDLM and/or her clones, and none of them survived the winter. Since Kate can grow Mystic Beauty directly south of me in zone 6, and Sammy can grow SDLM directly south of that in zone 7, both hot and dry summers, I have to suspect it's the combination of hot summer with cold winters that does it in for me. Or maybe it's just me (but I hope not). Anyway, I'd love to be a fan of this rose, but I have to enjoy it in other people's yards. Cynthia |
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| Gee, Cynthia--I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck with SDLM. Out of curiosity I looked it and Mystic Beauty up at HMF. Supposedly Mystic Beauty is hardy only to Zone 6 (unless that is HMF's usual "default" listing), but SDLM is listed as hardy to Zone 5. So it would seem you ought to be able to grow it. Have you got a more protected spot? Maybe like on the east side of the house next to the foundation. That might keep it from getting too hot and too cold. Maybe a spot by the south foundation would also work since it wouldn't get as cold there. I don't really know--just guessing. It's a lovely enough rose, in either manifestation, that it would be nice if we could get one growing in your gardens. Kate |
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- Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 19:26
| I know, Kate - that listing of zone 5 is why I was so disappointed SDLM gave up the ghost on me. It's one of those roses that seems to grow backwards for me no matter where it is, and at least one of those locations was right next to the house in a zone 6 pocket. Still, I haven't tried it for 3 or 4 years, and that was before I was ruthlessly pinching off blossoms. Maybe it just needs a vigorous root system before it handles our summer/winters, so I might have to try it one more time before I say I can't grow it. Is yours grafted? So far, you're the closest to my zone that has chimed in on this thread, and that might be a factor. I'm an own-root fan unless there's reason to go elsewhere, but it might be worth considering. Honorine de Brabant is another rose that's supposed to be hardy in my zone that I can't get to survive grafted OR own-root, and it has been 3 times in a prime location. Ah well, roses have personalities, and they're sometimes prickly ones! Thanks for the suggestions, though - I still may try one more time. Cynthia |
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| Cynthia, since only Roses Unlimited sells Mystic Beauty, mine must be own root as are all their other roses. I don't know if SDLM is available grafted, but grafted roses do often give a rose that extra oomph needed to get settled in before the cold weather hits. You might call a couple nurseries that carry it and see what they say about its hardiness rating--and you might confer with Roses Unlimited about how hardy Mystic Beauty is. They are very nice and helpful people and maybe they would have some suggestions. Good luck. Kate |
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| Cynthia, by all accounts SdlM loves hot summers. Apparently what happened was the crown froze to death. Maybe a 12" soil mound with some mulch on top and extra snow shoveled over would allow it to come through. You would still get some bloom even if all the canes had to be pruned to grade in spring. But maybe you've already tried that. |
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- Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on Tue, Nov 19, 13 at 17:09
| Thanks for the tips Kate & Michael. I hate to give up on SDLM, and I admittedly haven't tried it in a few years since my rose "babying" strategies have improved. I agree that the crown probably froze, since there was not even the false hope growth that some winterkilled roses will put out in early spring before croaking. I have my doubts about my ability to maintain soil mounding every year, being at heart a lazy gardener, but I could put SDLM near one of the teas and give it the same protection of full leaf bag perimeter that they get. At least it should love our hot dry summers once it gets going. Being zone 5 rated, it goes against the grain a bit that I should have to baby this one, but clearly it's worth it for the scent alone. Maybe I'll do the same for Yves Piaget, for the same reasons, since that one's on its third go round so far. Never say die, eh? Cynthia |
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| I don't think it was ever said to be cane-hardy in actual zone 5 temperatures. Rather it (maybe) could be grown there as a dieback plant just as HTs are. At one time it was considered too tender for the UK unless against a warm wall. But apparently the lack of summer heat is somehow related to winter-tenderness for tea-blooded roses in Northern Europe. I have had younger canes of SdlM-family roses damaged by temperatures around 5 F. |
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- Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 16:15
| Ah thanks, Michael. Calling the SDLM clan "tea-blooded" clarifies its status and makes me more comfortable about babying them. It's amazing how much difference there can be about preferred conditions among roses within the same class. It sounds like treating SDLM as if it were a tea is my best bet for survival, If England is an iffy proposition, and you've had damage at only 5 F, I definitely need to protect this one. It's supposed to hit as low as 5 F this weekend already, with highs in the 20's, and that's just the tip of the snow-and-iceberg around here. Cynthia |
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| The plant, with its fondness for heat, triple-branching habit, short stems, and continuous bloom, seems to me much more like a compact tea than a normal bourbon. |
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- Posted by sandandsun 9a FL (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 9:32
| I've was wondering whether there were anything I could add that I haven't already written about Souvenir de la Malmaison (sdlm)? The fragrance: not strong. someone used the term "delicate," I second that. on a scale of 0 -10, I'd put it under 5 and I wouldn't call it perfume. oddly enough with all that being an honest assessment, it is nonetheless inexplicably delightful to me. and its "oils" transfer fleetingly to my fingers if I rub the petals ever so gently when I'm deadheading. What else? Oh, I think the musk heritage may be a crucial element of her fragrance. In fact, I was thinking this year that hybrid musk might describe her very well for that reason. I should reinforce that it does exceptionally well here (9a FL) and that I never even tried it in zone 5 (where I wanted to try it for 20 years), because I understood then as I've observed now that she prefers a warmer climate. IMHO, life is too short to torture ourselves trying to make a plant happy that would prefer to live elsewhere. |
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