I think it depends on what people mean by the term "pruned". Some folks think that all pruning should be hard pruning, as is done to HTs. Many old roses would resent that type of pruning, and "sulk" for years (or die outright).

On the other hand, removing dead or diseased wood, and lightly shaping the bushes, is not a problem for any rose. I would never hard prune a china or a tea rose (unless there had been some sort of catastrophe, and it was severely damaged).

It can also depend, of course, on the climate - in some cold climates roses can die back to the ground, in which case of course you have to prune off all of the dead wood.

In general, the rule of thumb is not to remove more than 1/3rd of the live bush on roses which are not HTs.

Jackie

I think Jackie's advice is very good. Some years ago I decided to stop pruning even my HTs down to that 6 to 8 inches, they way they say to, and I found they did much better all around. I just kept thinking why am I cutting off perfectly good green, live cane down that low? Now the rose has to grow all that back before it will bloom. So I started only taking off what was winter damaged and leaving them tall. They bloomed at least 2 weeks sooner as a result! I think most all roses prefer not to be that hard pruned unless they're damaged as Jackie said.

It's going to be very interesting this season to see what happens. With the frigid sub-zero temps we had for months here I can see that I am going to have to prune very low this spring. I'll get the chance to see if my reasoning is right or not!

Early yellow species roses such as rosa primula, hugonis, and cantabrigiensis may die from even a moderate pruning they dislike being pruned so much.

Don't have a problem with any other rose class being pruned moderately though some will delay blooming until they reach a large size again. I have killed plants during transplanting that were pruned hard to your 6-8" level because I thought I was balancing the roots with less top growth, but I think that weakened them and they didn't survive the winter. So nothing gets chopped down hard here and I like the natural bushy growth.

The story is, we learned to prune because one day the donkey got to the grape vines. The vintner was afraid he'd lost his crop, but instead they grew back better than ever.

Pruning is the human version of herbivores, nature's nibblers. Deer, rabbits, cows, goats, donkeys, etc come along and nibble the new grow/sweeter tips, esp in the spring when they are hungry from winter and grasses and such aren't yet up--thus, spring pruning. This then stimulates further growth, and about the time other food sources are available, the plant can bloom. Critters rarely take off even as much as a third because further down, the plants become bitter and hard to chew.

Even dead wood has a function. It provide scaffolding for new grow and, of course, compost when it finally decomposes.

Hybrid Teas are a good example of human interference. They have lost all critter resistance, so they get eaten way down, plus, they are not very winter hardy, and thus have to grow back from severe damage.

My inquiring mind would like to know WHY if both the oriental and european ancestors of HTs like or dislike one thing, the HTs like or dislike another and vice versa..

I do think that most of that pruning thing in roses (apart from the hygiene part) has to do with human aesthetics and decorative preferences and needs.
Nik

PS On the same train of thought, why if HTs can take 'hard pruning' the chinas or teas supposedly cannot? I suspect that this one comes from a distorted understanding of what 'hard pruning' means since usually the recipes discuss cane length or percentage thereof rather than mass. If mass taken off over mass left in place is taken into consideration, I would venture a guess that all roses have similar 'likings' or tolerances.

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 14:27

Avalon2007, I don't think I've ever pruned a rose by more than 1/2 to 2/3. I do annually slice off 50% of my mature HTs. This is what I call "hard pruning" and it seems to suit them just fine. It also prevents them from shooting up to 10 feet tall over the summer. I'd only prune a rose down to 8 inches in a case of severe damage. Even when I've moved a big rose, I've only cut back the rose by 50%. (Moving a large, mature rambler might call for more drastic measures.) On the other hand, I prune my noisette-tea Madame Alfred Carriere by 50% each spring even though noisettes generally perform better with light pruning. I have no choice because my garden is tiny and Madame is BIG. I prune her lightly off and on over the gardening season as branches attack my narrow pathway. She survives, thrive and blooms in spite of my secateurs. I also prune Perle d'Or and Cecile Brunner spray by 50% from sheer (or, as a gardener might pun, shear) necesssity. They've been performing beautifully for 10 years. Perle and Cececile are sometime lumped in with the China roses category. Old Blush and some teas I've grown also seemed to handle pruning by half. Blush just grew a bit and bloomed. The teas paused before growing and paused again before blooming. Teas do seem to have definite ideas about size and bloom, but if I think long enough I can probably name ones that are pickier than others. Does this rambling reply help at all? Bottom line, experiment and see what works but perhaps only prune very hard (more tha 2/3) when it's absolutely necessary and be sure to prune lightly when trimming young plants that need all the foliage they can get to adequately photosenthesize. Carol

Sorry about all the typos (in this reply and replies on others posts)! I type, parent and answer phone calls simultaneously, and I am NOT the queen of iPads. Carol

I was amazed to read that this grower prunes her centifolias/moss rose to the ground in January and even succeeds in growing this monster in pots. I guess you just have to learn by doing.

I have had good and bad experiences with pruning myself. I lost a lot of roses once from pruning just before a late frost -- or maybe it was the late frost (April) alone that did it. One of the victims was Mme Pierre Oger, which I never had the heart to replace. The rugosa rose that I pruned some years ago at my cousin's house --- has never bloomed again! And something like this seemed to have happened to the huge eglantines that until a few years ago bloomed at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, and have since been removed.

Here is a link that might be useful: pruned to a faretheewell

Sorry about my late response (been busy) and thanks to all who replied to my question about pruning. It was interesting reading about the different approaches to pruning depending on the types of roses being grown.

It never freezes here, and roses can bloom continuously. What I do that I call "pruning" is probably more like just trimming. I have been cutting off deadwood, cutting off very small and inward growth, shaping the bushes a little and tipping the canes.

I really don't know what else to do, because seasonal pruning doesn't even apply here- there are only have 2 seasons: the cool (not cold) dry season and the hot wet season. Most roses bloom best here in the fall and spring, but some, like Alister Stella Grey, really like the heat and bloom in the humid, hot rainy summer. Hybrid teas seem to do best around November and December. However, many hybrid teas won't survive here at all.

It's so different growing plants in colder places, that if I ever grew roses up north, I would have to start learning how to grow them all over again, from scratch!

I seem to have really p####d off one of my Mme Isaac Pereire plants. I took out a lot of old canes this year; canes that were damaged and/or scruffy looking . I also put in several new baby roses nearby.Either one or the other or both of these things have infuriated Madame: no new growth,small, stingy leaves...so sorry!

I read all the rules on pruning, and truly do not understand what to do. Some roses begin to look bad and die, and I will never know if it is pruning, zone, lack of water or fertilizer.

If the rose looks like it has winter damage, meaning if the canes have spots that go way down to the base, i chop it away until the cane looks good. (I always take away obvious winter damage.) My logic is that I do not want it to try to heal, but use energy for the new growth. By the hot summer, it needs to survive, so I want as much beauty as I can have until them.

I seldom touch a rose that is younger than about 3 (2 years in my yard) regardless of what it has done.

My roses respond by putting out a huge amount of growth, and end up quite large. They are beautiful to me, but my methods have also sacrificed many more delicate roses, I think.

I only grow teas, chinas, bourbons, and shrubs. I have no modern roses that I can think of off hand.

I hope this rambling helps.

Vintage Gardens in California wrote a paper on gardening myths. It is one of my favorite pieces of information on rose growing. Is the name Greg Lowery?? I am not sure, but the paper explained the source of so many gardening rules. The bottom line is that many traditional rules that govern rose growing stem from rose growers who exhibit. I have no interest in cutting roses for my home. I only want a pretty garden, so what works for me may be entirely different than what works for others. For example, I want my roses to be even in height. I have 3 Caldwell Pink roses together, and two more to go in that bed. However much I cut one, I cut the others, so the bed looks pretty. I will not be cutting those roses for a show or my home. I want to sit outside and admire their beauty - I even have a cheap cement bench near them so I can see them better.

Sammy

Oh no. I might should have read this before I went in the garden last night. I tend to be an all or nothing pruner. Light pruning...not in my garden :)

I worked on the bush that I'm pretty sure is Chamblee's Georgetown Tea. I probably took out a third of it. Most were older canes and center canes. I removed some of the lower hanging canes that were acting like wriggling octopuses. I didn't do anything to the height. Eek, I hope I didn't hurt it too bad.

My Lovers Delite I basically just chopped in half. (cringe, I know) The thorns on that bush did not encourage me to stick around too long. I LOVE the fragrance of that one. It is the one rose in my garden I can smell while just walking through my garden.

The hybrid teas in front, two of them had to be taken all the way to the ground. The rest of them probably cut/thinned by half.

I've pruned Archduke Charles several times this spring. I think he's probably gone by half. Mostly I was trying to thin out the center. I haven't pruned him much at all for several years, if ever.

Monsieur Tillier is gone by at least half. He was a mess. Canes too close together, plus some winter kill, I think. That bush has struggled in my yard.

I left Maggie alone this year. I think I worked pretty hard on her a year or two ago. She looked pretty good.

If I come back crying this summer that I have no roses...remind me of my butchering, er, pruning...

Lisa, don't worry! Roses are tough. I'm guessing they'll all bounce back. Roses even come back from their roots at times. Give the ones you hard pruned time to resurrect themsleves. Are things warming up in OK? My sister down in Dallas is enjoying the thaw after that particularly brutal winter. Carol

Thanks, Carol! Yes, we are warming up. It is 86 degrees today, according to my phone...I'm stuck inside in a/c :) We will have a cool down early next week though. This time of year see saws quite a bit.

I know everyone thought this year was brutal, but for me it seemed fairly normal. Maybe it is because we missed out on any big storms. We could use the moisture.