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Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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Posted by
rosefolly Z9/S16 NCal (
My Page) on
Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 15:05
| I'm preparing to move a lilac to create a large space for Secret Garden Musk Climber. This area gets morning and early afternoon sun, then is in bright shade in the latter part of the day. A nearby hill cuts off direct light as the sun gets lower in the sky. Here is the problem. While going through my pot ghetto this morning I noticed that several of the leaves on SGMC had blackspot. Now BS pressure is pretty low here in the south SF Bay Area (Silicon Valley), but it is not unknown. On the whole I tend to avoid those roses that actually get it more than very rarely. Since I only spray once all year after winter pruning, I don't want to be bothered with roses that require chemical assistance to thrive. What I want to know is this: just how much BS is this rose likely to get? If it is more than very minimal, I will give the rose away rather than plant it. Rosefolly |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I know our disease pressures are very different, but SGMC never experiences any fungal issues for me here, Rosefolly. I would imagine the conditions in your pot ghetto are conducive to more issues. There is probably less air circulation due to more crowding and I would also imagine those in pots experience greater water stress (over and under watering) issues than one growing vigorously in the ground might. The rose wants to be BIG. Keeping it stressed by growing it potted is going to inhibit its immune system, resulting in greater fungal issues. Kim |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| We see blackspot here -- OCCASIONALLY. To give an example, we removed Rt. 66 and Midnight Blue because we had a couple of odd tropical days, and they defoliated completely. Never before seen that here. (Or since, for that matter.) Grandmother's Hat and Golden Celebration can get enough blackspot OCCASIONALLY to make them drop some low foliage. Under those rare conditions, SGMC has gotten a little scattered blackspot -- mostly low on the plant. And our two are in a place where they get afternoon sun only, and air-flow is restricted on two sides. Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I wonder whether it's also the weather since earlier this year many of my roses had blackspot, a rare entity until then. Now only a few have some after I defoliated the old leaves as much as possible. Well, now it's mildew (and lots of aphids). Since I don't use toxins I've been watering with a hose in the morning to wash off the aphids and hopefully some of the mildew on the leaves, but other than that they're on their own. If a garden is fairly well balanced with toxin-free soil and plants, adequate water and mulch, and companion plants mixed among the roses, I've found that at least in my garden nothing ever turns into a major catastrophy (caveat: gophers!). Ingrid |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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- Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 15:09
| Mine got blackspot last year with our spring rain and completely defoliated. Continued to bloom like crazy while it refoliated itself. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Hmmm, "completely defoliated". Even if it blooms through the process, I think this rose is going to find itself a new home after all. Thanks -- that's what I needed to know. Rosefolly |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Paula here where it is very wet in the winter and spring I haven't had significant problems with it. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I've never seen it do anything even remotely like that. The thing is, I think you're going to find that ANY rose is going to have a problem SOMEWHERE. If it's in your neighborhood, and it completely defoliates, I think that could be a problem. But if it has no problems to speak of for Pam . . . Or for me . . . But if you're not keeping it, bring it to CoOR and let us Silent Auction it. ;-) Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Jeri, you're making it pretty hard to give it away! |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Just sayin' -- First dibs. :-) Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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- Posted by catspa NoCA Z9 Sunset 14 (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 21:16
| My 2-years-in-the-ground SGMC gets some blackspot late winter/early spring, a problem that entirely goes away for the rest of the year (has never defoliated). So do my Pernetianas, which do defoliate. (You should have seen Gruss an Coburg last year -- oy!). But, again, it tends to be a relatively short-lived problem (if it happens at all). When I lived in Massachusetts, the BS was ridiculous, every year. Last spring, my newly-planted Grandmother's Hat totally defoliated from BS (like a plucked chicken for a month or two, honestly). This year, not a spot and looking beautiful. I think if plants are in pots or trying to get settled in, they can suffer from "stuff" they rarely get once well-established. The rose is so beautiful, I would hang on. ~ Debbie |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I agree with Debbie. A great many "problems" disappear, once a rose is in the ground, and fairly mature. Jeri But -- Just in case ... First-dibs. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Jeri, I hear you. And since I did maneuver a space for it, I guess I'll go ahead and plant it. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Clay will be so disappointed. He was all excited about having one to auction. ;-) Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I have my band of sgmc in her 1g pot and not sure where I want to put her when she is ready. I have been thinking that I want to put her on the front of a kind of funky "store room" shed. It is south facing, but gets shaded by the house toward the end of the day and is in the shade til about 10am. It will get some extra water from the roof runoff on our foggy days (other plants have done well there) Think she might do too well and swallow the place? I could run a few canes down the side on the picket fence. Or will she dislike the sun? My other spot will get a lot more shade even though it is west facing and also gets a bit of extra run off water. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Kippy, I think that sounds good. We've found her to be adaptable and disease-resistant here. Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Kippy, I planted this one as a two gallon in engineered soil in Stevenson Ranch years ago. It is shaded by the house, a Chinese Elm and overhanging branches from very large Crepe Myrtles. It took it nearly two years to break into that nasty, compacted soil I could barely carve out a hole for the root ball in. There aren't any noticeable surface roots under the sod and it flowers continuously. Descanso Gardens grew it (may still grow it, I haven't been in quite a while) at the entrance to the Children's Secret Garden. This is on the gate to the kids' play area where their larger toys and play house are, so I figured it was completely appropriate. It gets Gro Power Plus occasionally and watered by the lawn sprinklers. There is no disease, but it's a different climate from yours. Kim |
Here is a link that might be useful: Secret Garden
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I'm enjoying reading your CA whines over BS. Out here in the east, BS is a way of life, esp if one is no-spray. To keep up my curb appeal, I have planted rugosas all up my driveway because they are just about the only roses that don't defoliate. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Catsrose, I do indeed know that those of you gardening back east where the air is humid (and it actually rains) have way more blackspot to contend with than we do. This must sound like whining, and perhaps it is. The issue is that it easy to have a garden full of roses here that don't get BS. That's why I hesitate to plant anything that does. I don't have to. On the other hand, rust and powdery mildew can be almost as bad here as BS is back east. BTW, I love rugosas, which unfortunately do not do well here. They aren't too happy with my alkaline soil and the salts in our irrigation water. Which ones did you plant? Rosefolly |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Like Folly -- I love rugosas, but cannot grow them. I think we're likely even more alkaline than she is, and they're miserable here. I have to enjoy them when we go up into the PNW, or to the S.E., where they can show their stuff. There are several types of roses we can't do justice to, here. But happily, there are many that do, and like Folly we try not to plant roses that we know will probably fail in our conditions. So, I don't think it's whining. I just think it's sharing information. Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Just teasing about the whining. No offense intended. I grew up in the Bay Area, so I know about rust&mildew and then lived in Santa Fe for 18 years. BS was a great shock. There are times when my summer garden is as leafless as my winter garden. The rugosas on the street are Sir Thomas Lipton, Will Alderman, Roseraie de l'Hay, Dart's Dash, Polareis. A few polys are stuck in as underplantings and there's a leftover Prairie Clogger that refuses to die but defoliates on a hint, and a Ville de Toulouse. Gallicas also resist BS fairly well, and also the deer. So I have several other stands of rugosas and gallicas. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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Catrose, it sounds like a lovely collection.
And I was not offended. I thought you made a valid point. Rosefolly |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| To contrast location and performance, catsrose, Lipton and Roseraie de l'Hay suffered nearly terminal rust in my Newhall garden. I tried many hybrid Rugosas there and the rust was horrible. Conrad Ferdinand Meyer promised such wonderful flowers, as did the Austins closely bred from him. At least the Austins COULD be sprayed for their rust. Meyer and the other hybrid Rugosas could NOT as they would yellow then shed every leaf. Fortunately, I found there were many alternatives I could grow and NOT spray. Kim |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I'm into my 8th year here and am finally getting a handle on what thrives, what struggles, what is hopeless. I'm also working on the theory that a no-spray garden will eventually find some kind of equilibrium. HTs are almost impossible w/o massive chemicals, heavy winter mulch, and deer fences, the newer the worse. I have a few, like Mrs Oakley Fisher, that I fight for, but that's about it. Bourbons are bad for BS but the deer don't bother them. The rest fall somewhere along a spectrum. I'm keeping notes... |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I sold a secret garden Musk climber to a neighbor who desired it with all her heart, because it defoliated c. 25% of its leaves from blackspot in my no-spray garden which was in Oakland, California, another plant left in the same garden grew to a mature size and now shows much less blackspot, and I regret not taking it to my new home. Lux. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Funny -- how much difference maturity makes, to disease-resistance. Jeri |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| I'm up in menlo park- so very close to you. This rose is outstanding in my yard. I do nothing, and it blooms continuously till I take all the leaves off after Christmas. Then it's blooming again right away in the spring. No disease, no spot, no fungus, no apids. It will take over the city some day. I absolutely love it. |
RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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RE: Secret Garden Musk Climber problem?
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| Good to know. I keep thinking that I need to set it back about a foot and a half from its present spot to give it more room to expand without swallowing the sidewalk. That will mean replacing the lilac behind it so it will be a bit of work. But I have been lazy in the garden recently, something that happens with me in the fall most years. Where I grew up years ago, fall was the time the garden work slowed down, and I seem to be still tied to that rhythm. I may do it this winter as part of the winter clean up. Your description of how big it is in Menlo Park confirms what I have been trying not to think about all along. Rosefolly |
This post was edited by rosefolly on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 13:20
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