Dear Friends, Customers and Supporters of Vintage Gardens,

A rosy outlook is what I wish for you all during these hard times---and it is what I hope you will try to maintain as I share with you that Vintage Gardens will close its doors to new orders on June 30th, 2013. We have tried to prepare our customers for this announcement over the past two years. I know that with the demise of so many rose nurseries recently, our closing will mean a very significant loss of resources to lovers of old roses, but we cannot continue operating the nursery at a loss.

This is it, then, the final months of Vintage Gardens. Our time table is focused on selling off the large number of roses we propagated in 2012, on shipping spring orders, and on propagating remaining custom orders to ship in the fall of this year.

We will:

Continue accepting orders through June, and shipping them.
Ship our spring season orders through June.

Close our office on June 30th.

Prepare all outstanding custom orders propagated in May and June for shipping starting in September.

Ship our delayed French Import roses beginning in September.

Ship a small number of orders to cold climates in the Spring of 2014.

Close our website on December 31st, 2013.

As I face the end of an effort that has engaged me for 30 years, I look ahead now to all that must still be done in the name of the rose. Central to my rosy outlook has been the efforts of a group of old rose lovers who have created a non-profit organization to preserve the collection of roses that I developed with Phillip Robinson beginning in the late 1970s. The Friends of Vintage Roses, assisted by the Heritage Rose Foundation, have begun the work of stabilizing and restoring a collection of old and rare roses that once numbered over 5000 varieties.

This organization will complete its application to the IRS for tax-exempt status this month. Donations raised by the Heritage Rose Foundation have already benefited the rose collection, including the restoration of more than a thousand lost and nearly varieties.

The years ahead will keep me busy helping the efforts of The Friends of Vintage Roses to preserve and provide public access to the roses. And my commitment to the Heritage Rose Foundation will continue to demand much from me as well.

Our Road to Closing Down

We have set for ourselves the challenging goal of meeting all of our promises to supply roses to our customers, and to retire our business in good standing with our customers and suppliers. We will need your good will, your good words, and your assistance in order to do this.

I thank you all for your understanding, your support of Vintage Gardens' efforts to keep so many rare old roses in commerce, and for being rose gardeners---the best sort of people I know!

Thank you for your understanding, your patience and for your support!

-Gregg Lowery

glowery@vintagegardens.com

Here is how you could help:

Please resist the urge to call or email us about confirmed orders of roses that have not yet shipped. There are only 2 of us at Vintage Gardens, and we face a mountain of work to get everyone's orders right. All import rose orders will be confirmed individually in March.
Please, PLEASE, place an order for some of the glorious roses we have currently available---NEARLY 1200 VARIETIES AWAIT YOU! Nearly 9000 rose plants have yet to be sold before we close, and if we fail to sell a good many of them, we cannot meet our commitments to customers. Many, if not most of these varieties of rare and old roses MAY NEVER AGAIN BE OFFERED COMMERCIALLY. Think of this as your last rose-buying binge; let it serve you for years to come.
Please, SUPPORT The Friends of Vintage Roses! This non-profit organization now OWNS the collection of roses that I developed over a 30 year period of my life. The Friends mission and purpose is to preserve this collection of heritage roses for everyone---holding onto the possibility that everyone will continue to be able to learn from and enjoy the roses.

The Friends of Vintage Roses

Preserving a Legacy of Old Roses

DONATE to preserve them. Dozens of supporters have already done so, and their generosity is providing the means to stabilize and restore the collection. It is because of their timely support on behalf of The Friends of Vintage Roses that this rose collection has not already vanished! Aging plants are being revitalized and more than a thousand lost and nearly lost varieties have been restored to the collection.

To DONATE, you may make tax-exempt donations to the HERITAGE ROSE FOUNDATION to support the efforts of The Friends of Vintage Roses, on the HRF website: Donate to The Friends of Vintage Roses.

VOLUNTEER to help to maintain the collection, along with the many other souls who come to Sebastopol, on scheduled monthly work days, called DIRT DAYS, throughout the year. Contact Carolyn Sanders for information on upcoming Dirt Days.

LEARN MORE about this non-profit organization. The Friends of Vintage Roses will be launching their website very soon, and we'll send out an email from Vintage Gardens with The Friends of Vintage Roses' web address when that happens. For now, visit the Vintage Gardens' Resources page and click onto The Friends of Vintage Roses to read more about this organization, how it started and what it has done to preserve these old roses.

About Vintage Gardens
In 1985 a small backyard nursery was born specializing in old roses.
In 1989 the newly planted collection of roses was first opened to visitors in May.
In 1992 our first rose catalogue was published.
In 1994 our first retail store opened in Sebastopol, California.
In 1996 we moved to larger accommodations where our offerings expanded to other historic plants.
In 2006 Vintage Gardens closed its retail outlet and became, once again, a mail order old-rose nursery.
In 2013 Vintage Gardens will cease growing and selling old roses and will close.

What will the future bring for the Old Roses? Will they survive? YOU have a say in that!

I read the information sent out by Gregg, and I wasn't quite clear if Vintage is still accepting custom orders. I'm involved with the restoration of a rose park in Livermore, and at some time in the future we were hoping to add some of the roses from the original 1960 planting of the garden. Unfortunately, Vintage is the sole holder of a few of these roses.

Does anyone know if Vintage is still accepting custom orders?
Thanks,
Karen

Ingrid

I'll have a look through and see -- but I would say if you look first at Chinas (other than pink ones, which seem mildewy here) and Teas (which can start out mildewy, but seem to outgrow that) you've likely got a good start.

We should look at the ranks of Poly/Teas (not the straight Polythanthas which can have chlorosis problems) there are some real winners ...

Jeri

It is a good cause after all!

Ingrid

Wishing Gregg and Gita all the best.

Diane

The less bright ages of roses continue.

Tammy

Vintage HAS for long years sold roses at the Celebration of Old Roses, the Sunday after Mother's Day, in El Cerrito, CA. I hope they will be there this year -- and they surely will be missed in years to come.

Jeri

I checked out the china and teas noted as available on the website. Would a found rose like Ferndale Red be a good pick? Or is there something else?

Maybe I am not understanding their website, but I only see 13 chinas and 33 teas (just counted the 2 categories). Now I understand they probably have multiples but if they have 9000 available to sell...seems I might be missing something. I thought the custom root roses are the ones they can propagate by request so figured those would not be part of the 9000 available?

Sherry

Beyond that, without having looked at lists yet, I can tell you that I would opt for little-known found Teas and Chinas -- because those are the most vulnerable of what will grow here. YMMV, if you're in a different climate.

Adjust accordingly. Then, grow it, propagate it, and share it -- preserving what is known about it. The next dawn for old roses may be decades away. Be part of that.

Jeri

I don't know why Purpurea isn't more popular and widely grown (judging by limited availability and "favorite" votes on HMF). It is a spectacular rose here: incredibly handsome, healthy foliage, good-looking bush, wonderful flowers, blooms a lot, currently has three huge new basals (at least) --all this and growing in not-the-best-spot, by a long shot, with not much attention from me.

"Off the beaten path" does not necessarily mean "into the wilderness", in these cases --some wonderful surprises.

Debbie

.

Also, VG ships in boxes of four, so it costs nearly the same to ship 4 roses as to ship one.

Finally, update your garden list on HMF, so we know where all the flowers have gone.

Tammy

Tammy

I'm pretty sure that Purpurea is Winecup, and that ARE offers it. But it's still not very common and yes, it's gorgeous.

Karen, I think that you should contact Gregg. It may be that something could be worked out through the Friends of Vintage Roses for the rare varieties that you need for the Livermore park, if he can't custom propagate.

I'm looking at the varieties to add to the Sacramento cemetery, where there will be at least one additional source for their sale in the future. Since our focus is found roses, the rare modern ones (some dating from decades ago!), the foreign imports, and roses in commerce don't really fit in.

I don't know about having them sell at the cemetery's Open Garden - could be done, perhaps, although our priimary goal is to raise money for our own operations. We've found that most of the people who come to our sale want the foundlings with the great stories, and that commercial roses don't sell nearly as well.

Yes, this is a great loss for roses.
Anita

Ingrid

This email came as a jolt. I can't deny the truth to myself any more.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly

What rose were you going to order?

Gracin

Tammy

I suppose if I move I can try to move my roses with me? I doubt whoever comes after me will care as much as I do! yikes! I don't have a lot of really rare roses but I do have some.

I also found it sad that VG lost a lot of the parent French plants they were trying to bring over, that can't have helped. I got Anna Jung tea from Angel Gardens since I wasn't able to get her through VG. It's a big vigorous looking plant! And then I saw that's one of the ones that VG lost! I better not kill this one! yikes!!

I really can't order more I have less than no space left and with my two babies I don't have the time or money to plant more. :\

but as encouragement to those who don't know what to buy, off the top of my head, here are some beauties, be they rare or not:
Hermosa, Gene Boerner (gets absolutely covered in flowers), Else Poulsen (rapid rebloom!), Pink Rosette (rapid rebloom!), Grandmother's Hat (not always available in many areas...), Cornelia VI, Felicia, Sally Holmes, Gruss an Aachen, Grüss an Coburg, Little White Pet, Marie Pavie, Gilbert Nabonnand, Crépuscule

I'd order just 1 or 2 if I could, but the 4-order thing is just too much for me right now. :\

in fact... one could search vintage for only plants available with rapid rebloom or intense fragrance if you wanted...! I love ones that bloom all the time.

A century or more from now, a rose lover will find a one-of-a-kind "lost" rose in an abandoned garden and propagate it and share it, and it will be because of what Vintage did one hundred years before. Quite a beautiful legacy. :)

As Jeri indicated earlier, the found roses are probably going to go back to being pass along plants as they were for so long. I seriously doubt many nurseries are going to list them because there is no information about them in books and scant information on line. I browsed the two earlier lists from last year then looked at the found rose list and there were quite a few things there which fit either the found class or were varieties not found from other sources in the US. Those, from any classes, are the ones I fear for most. Keeping track of them can be really easy, IF people would list their gardens on HMF and keep them current. Then, when the plants are mature enough, list you have cuttings available from them so people can contact you for them. Kim

anyway, that's my peculiar approach.

Rosefolly

Kim, unless Malcolm has switched sides and become a Seminole, his college is FSC, Florida Southern College, not Florida State University. Just jerkin' your chain. :))

Sherry

Tammy

I am deeply grateful, not only to VG, but to everyone who has been involved in preserving our garden heritage over the past half century, roses, heirloom seeds, vintage fruits and other ornamentals. I think this immense task has been and will continue to be far more important and significant than many might think.

For warm climate gardeners, the following noisettes and one tea-noisette are available nowhere else in North America, according to HMF:

Tea-noisette: PHil Edinger's Noisette

Noisettes:
Bouquet Tout Fait
Cato's Cluster
St. Leonards

Also Lingo Musk is only also available from a retail nursery in Florida which does not do mail order.

For me, the glory of mid 20thC rose breeding was not the HTs or the floribundas, but the large flowered climbers, both the New Dawn progeny and the hybrid Kordesii line. Others who love the climbers should take the opportunity to add Cherryade to their yards. How this everblooming, large and gorgeous rose came to be overlooked I cannot imagine. It has grown quickly and performed well for me in hot, dry CA and in cool, damp NY.

Kippy -- I've never yet found an obscure red China Rose that didn't do great here.

Remember, guys -- this is only half the battle.
When the roses are mature enough, propagate them, and share them forward.

Jeri

Anyone looking for a BS resistant floribunda might want to consider Ivory Triumph. It was among the best of the roses I received last year. It grew quickly, important in a short growing season area, bloomed profusely, and along about the end of Aug. I was pleasently surprised to see NO BS. None. A few spots showed up on the very bottom leaves at the very end of the growing season. Anyone who wants to go on beyond Iceberg for a good pale floribunda might want to consider Ivory Truimph. Where I am in NY, the color is a very nice soft white with just a touch of cream undertone.

If it wasn't obvious before this, it sure is now: we are looking at the next "great extinction event', as far as the rose is concerned. This happens in 70-100 year cycles (do the research and you'll see this is true) and this is the "half way to the bottom" point on the curve. Brace yourselves, there is worse to come. Half the nurseries have vanished and thats not the end of it by far, I'm afraid. But the loss of Vintage is certainly the most substantial of the losses, at least symbolically.

As Jeri and Kim and others have said, the future is in the hands of dedicated, passionate individuals now, and the model going forward is likely to be one of "propagate and share forward", where people will propagate what they have, and send copies to those who request them. This may be the only way certain obscure roses will survive the next 50 (or more) years. (And I concur; its not 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and the many "pop chart" OGRs that need attention, its the ones most of us know little about - those are at far greater risk than SdlM and the like)

I should also point out that the rose growing community has available to it one of the mightiest weapons against extinction - a weapon no previous extinction cycle has had: we are a network. Sharing a who-grows-what list through HMF might be the most powerful tool at our disposal to help avoid individual extinctions. It is likely that other resources will evolve as the need grows and the concept is refined for optimal results, but for now, HMF is by far the best bet.

It's been very cool to see how Paul has now written a book and become an advocate for roses through 'Fine Gardening" magazine and posted you tubes of rose care. I think he's using an online presence for roses in a good way.

In the same way, maybe this change will be something similar for Gregg Lowery and this will ultimately become a blessing for him and for all of us. I hope he will continue to write and share all of that knowledge he has. Maybe I'll even get to hear him speak one day!

Change is not necessarily a bad thing for any of us. People are very creative in dealing with problems, so I am hoping for the best through all of this.

I've started wrapping a wet cotton ball around the diagonally cut edge, and then wrapping that in saran wrap, or wrapping two or three cuttings in saran wrap. Then I place all the cuttings of a variety in a zip lock bag. The feedback I have received says that the cuttings are arriving in "more spry than usual shape". I plan to continue to use this method. Give it a try.
Gracin

You are SO right.

Jeri

If you have hard-to-find varieties in your collection that your favorite nursery does not list, contact the nursery to ask if they would be interested in receiving cuttings for propagation and eventual sale.

PLEASE think about freely sharing your roses with others -- friends, strangers AND nurseries. I think it's now critical that we do so.

Wrap the labeled cuttings without foliage, tightly in the damp paper then wrap them well in produce bags left over from your grocery shopping. I empty the produce bags as soon as I get home to avoid any scent from what's inside and to make sure they are as clean as possible. If I can smell what they contained or if there is any debris from the produce inside them, they go into the recycle can. I like to make sure any prickles on the cuttings are well insulated with the damp paper so they don't breach the plastic bags and allow the cuttings to dry out in transit. For those with foliage, if you flatten the damp paper into a sheet which can be slid into the bag, then lay the cuttings into the bag on the damp paper until you have as many inside the bag as will fit, or as you are mailing, you might be able to tie the bag closed. If not, slide the bag into another bag so the open end slips into the second bag's closed bottom. You can reverse multiple bags like this repeatedly until you're comfortable a seal is accomplished to keep the moisture inside the bag. Multiple layers of bags can also help prevent prickles from ripping through them, losing moisture in transit. This will also help to form more of a rectangular solid bundle which fits inside a medium mailing box more efficiently. Once I've used as many produce bags as I feel are necessary, I often slip the bundle inside a plastic T shirt shopping bag and tie it closed to help provide packing and seal in moisture. Repeat this as you feel necessary.

If I'm only sending one variety, I'll use a small Priority Mail box and cut the cuttings about an inch shorter than the length of the box so there will be plenty of room for the packing material. With the speed with which they arrive, don't worry about the paper and plastic being wrapped too tightly. I've mailed bud wood to Europe and cuttings all over the contiguous United States using this method and no one has complained the cuttings had suffered from it. I make sure to use as many produce and plastic shopping bags to wrap them in as necessary to keep any prickles from poking through. Of course that's regulated by what size box you're using and how prickly the variety is.

For larger bundles, I'll wrap them, fill out a Priority address label then take them to the post office and use the self service machine to determine how much the postage will be. I already have both Flat Rate and regular Priority boxes I've collected from the post office, so I take the appropriate size of both with me. Around here, you can't rely upon the post office having what you want, when you want it. Place one unopened box and your bundle on the scale, enter all the necessary information and see how much the rate is by the weight. If it's less than Flat Rate, I use the traditional box. If it's more than Flat Rate, I use the Flat Rate box. You'll need a bit more packing to secure them in the Flat Rate box as it's a bit larger than non Flat Rate boxes. Both are "medium" but medium flat rate is larger than the non Flat Rate medium box. Select the one you intend to use, pack it, seal it and slap on the label and postage and you're good to go.

I recently mailed a large, bare rooted, well developed sucker which nicely fit in a medium box, for less postage than is required for a small, Flat Rate box by using bubble wrap, damp paper and plastic bags for packing. Keep the packing materials as light weight as possible, play with the automatic machine to determine what size/weight you can send for what postage and tailor what you use to be the most efficient and you can move quite a bit of material for some decent postage rates.

Watch so you don't mail them during tax time (too congested at the post office for easy use and slower delivery); holidays (when delivery times go to the devil) and during extreme weather events (when deliveries are impossible or the chances of them freezing or frying are greater). Most often, four days (at most) will get Priority boxes where they need to go across the country. Even for the few times it's required a day or two more, they arrived in decent condition from the reports.

I save clean, plastic produce and shopping bags and collect newspaper for mailing and wrapping cuttings. You can use toweling, zip loc bags and other materials, but I'm re purposing them and they cost me virtually nothing. Once you've received them, the packing can go right into your recycling so it's a clean job. Many other methods will work. This one works just fine for me.

Oh, and when you're arranging to receive cuttings or other materials, be sure to send your full name and address. It looks rather odd to mail something to your GW screen identity and you'll save the sender the time of having to ASK who you are and where you live. You'd be surprised how many don't just send that information without being asked! Kim

There is a climber, Mme. Butterfly, Climbing that appears to be rather rare and appropriate for my zone (7A, VA). She also fits into what I am attempting, color and habit wise, in my yard this year. Am I way off base?

My rose funds, or garden funds at all, are pretty finite and shipping makes this a much more expensive proposition. If there is anyone in the NoVa area, or tri-state (WV, VA, MD- I'm out where all three meet) who is interested in ordering, I would dearly love to make a combined effort, hopefully so that more roses can be ordered. My email is in my profile!

Within the past week, Vintage notified me of the date in April when my custom order will be shipped. It appears that slightly under one-third of the roses I ordered were successfully rooted and will be included in the shipment. I have no reason to assume that the remaining roses will be rooted and shipped at a later date.

A couple of weeks ago, Vintage's sponsorship "star" disappeared on the HMF site. That was a strong clue to me that things were not working out. What a loss their departure from the commercial rose scene will be.

These hybrid perpetuals from the VG current availability list appear to be found at no other nursery in North America.

Francoise Coppee

George Arends

Gloire Lyonnaise is also at one retail nursery in CA

William Jesse is also possibly available from Hortico

Maurice Bernardin

Monsieur Boncenne

Miriam's Pink Powderpuff

Panachee d'Orleans

Star of Waltham

Triumph de l'Exposition is possibly also obtainable from Hortico. I include it and William Jesse on this list because many here have stated that they do not care to order from Hortico.

The sad fact that Vintage is stopping retail operations has NO effect on the value of this tremendous resource. I wore out the old catalog because I refer to it more often than Modern Roses. Just got the new one & the thing just blew me away. Get it while you can--you will be sooo glad to have it.

The Marie Pavie that Vintage has is much prettier than other MPs sent to me by other sources.

This seems really unfair and sad. Like Josephine's garden at Malmaison after she wasn't there to look after it anymore. I hope the vintage roses have a happier ending.

Ingrid

Anne of Geierstein
Jeannie Deans
Rosenwunder

I began looking into what roses were exclusive to VG last year when I first learned about the upcoming closure. I was surprised to find that a good third to half of the floribundas at Vintage can be found at no other mail order nursery in North America.

The floribundas of the mid 20th C tend to have the dimensions of what are now called patio roses. Most were low growing, not fragrant, had stunning colors, rapid repeat bloom and better disease resistance than the HTs of the same decades. I am particularaly fond of the floribundas from Mattias Tantau, Jr. Some, Pussta (not available at VG), Cinnabar, Juliska (not at VG), have been most satisfactory in my cold and wet zone 5 garden. OTOH Lapponia, a lovely peach rose, has yet to grow taller than 12" .

VG at the present time offers these Tantau floribundas, and they are not sold elsewhere in the USA.
Cinnabar
Lichterloh
Geisha
Dorothy Wheatcroft
Paprika

I have never really understood why the midcentury floribundas passed so quickly out of commerce when they are, to my mind, much more satisfactory as garden plants than many of the HTs from the same era. They tend to be compact growers, easily sited in todays smaller gardens, far less susceptible to disease than the HTs of the same era, and those in my garden bloom almost non-stop.

" Though the Dark Ages are again descending on non-recent roses--how long will this night be?--Vintage has sown seeds which will bloom in the fullness of time . . ."

But it is really up to all of us, isn't it? To talk about them, to propagate them, and to share them forward.

They are, after all, the "Old Roses" of tomorrow.

Jeri

Much later, he again went back to the old floribundas (and older American climbers), using Aloha with pollen from David Armstrong's 1966 floribunda, Yellow Cushion, to create Abraham Darby. There have been others used to create the popular English Roses, none of which would exist in anything resembling what we have today, had it not been for these great, older modern roses.

If you haven't already seen it, grow Moonsprite. It IS what an English rose for American gardens should be. It has all the form, the myrrh scent, the right color, "the look", all on a compact, bushy, continuous flowering plant. All this from a 1956 Herb Swim, introduced by Armstrong Roses, floribunda.

There is a wealth of incredibly beautiful landscape and garden roses represented by this unappreciated category. Without them, we wouldn't have much of what we grow today. Kim

I know that I do tend to pretty much skip right over the mid-century floribundas...as I do the English roses, frankly, lol, but I ADORE a good history lesson and want to thank you both for that.

Cheers!
~Anika

Thanks.

Sherry

Spraying isn't necessary, it never has been. It's about your expectations. Sometimes a rose would lose ever single leaf to black spot. And then grow them back nice and clear and keep on going. *shrug* I agree with odinthor. Don't be scared off rose varieties because others consider them "spray required."

I'm now restricted to gardening in containers and trying to put together a little vintage order. MY limitation is the roses must stay fairly small. But there are still HUGE options!

Must 3rd the vote for Moonsprite. Great rose--and it's very fragrant. Oh, & Pink Chiffon--like Moonsprite, it has an old-rose look with overstuffed blooms & is very fragrant. I ordered it blind last year, just because of Vintage's description. Also Curly Pink, a Chrysler Imperial seedling--very pretty & fragrant.
Another fine old Floribunda I used to have is Gold Garnette--rich saturated yellow & fragrant, too.

Uhmm, is it okay to archive Vintage's web site to preserve the photos there now? Just occurred to me.

Souvenir de la Malmaison
Silver Spoon
Distant Drums
Mme. Antoine Mari

Two of those I've grown before back in the days of my huge garden up North, it'll be interesting to see how they do in Texas. I really hope we can buy them out of their current stock.

Anna Wheatcroft - Single to semi double, salmon-orange silk petals with white bases. Tantau didn't think enough of it to retain it for release, but Harry Wheatcroft, ever the showman, loved it. He asked permission to introduce and name it for a member of his family. Tantau had to back peddle and ask to get pieces back. I'm glad as it is a beautiful rose.

Chanelle - "orange-pink" is a terrible color description for this rose. It's much softer and more feminine than that. Wonderful fragrance and a very lovely flower.

Cinnabar - very saturated, "red with brownish shading". Strong pigments have always attracted my eye and this one has never failed. It represents some pretty interesting genetics.

Dairy Maid - LeGrice introduced a line of single floribundas which have led to some pretty beautiful roses. Dairy Maid is one of my favorites. Milk white with pale lemon yellow tones which fade out quickly in higher heat. Very well scented, large, single flowers.

Gene Boerner - Gene Boerner defined and named the floribunda class. His nick name was Papa Floribunda (also the name of his biography). He selected a white HT to bear his name. When President Kennedy was assassinated, the J&P management selected that rose to name JFK. A few years later when Boerner passed away, they selected one of his seedlings for "his" rose. Their decision has been shown to be very wise. Gene Boerner is one of the finest floribundas to have been raised, and a tremendously better rose than JFK!. Tall, nearly shrub-like; very lightly prickled; healthy; vigorous and flowering any time you expect a rose to have flowers. It's an excellent landscape shrub and could be used to good effect with its white sport, White Gene Boerner, also on the Vintage list. Both Dee Bennett and Laurie Chaffin have raised some beautiful roses using Gene.

Golden Slippers - Gordon Von Abrams raised some beautiful roses. This is one of his. Strongly fragrant, yellow sun tanning pinks and oranges, semi double flowers give an ever changing kaleidoscope in your garden.

Morey's Pink - Previously discussed here on GW. One not to be missed. Unfortunately not released during Dr. Morey's life so he could see he was right in retaining the seedling. He felt it was "ahead of its time". I believe he was right.

Orangeade - One I have always enjoyed, and still grow. Also one of the most fertile roses I have ever grown, which, combined with its deeply saturated color, has led to it being one of the most used floribundas for breeding. It shows a good lavender zone around the base of the petals, which is a trait Ralph Moore took advantage of in creating his Halo Roses. High heat and brilliant sun deepen the orange and begin forming dark petal edges, almost like a deep brown to nearly black picotee.

Pimlico 81 - Beautifully formed, long lasting flowers with a deeply saturated, brilliant red color. Glossy, healthy, dark green foliage with cranberry new growth. Vigorous in my climate and one which always draws my eye. Named for the 1981 running of The Pimlico horse race.

Pink Bountiful - If the breeding is to be believed, this represents the cross of Centifolia X Polyantha. Very imaginative, particularly for 1943! Very fragrant, small, double flowers in a clean, clear pink with darker reverse.

Pink Chiffon - Light pink, quite double and strongly fragrant. Another Mid Century beauty from Gene Boerner and very aptly named IMO. One which always sold out when we propagated them for Huntington Sales.

Pink Parfait - A taller (sometimes classed as a grandiflora), very disease resistant rose. Semi double, medium pink blending sometimes to orange-pink with a light fragrance, it has lovely buds. The flowers are on the larger side for Mid Century floribundas. Used quite well to create and probably responsible for the health of Escapade, Inner Wheel and Portrait.

Sarabande - Who doesn't want to grow a rose named for a famous dance? Dense, saturated red to red orange, semi double flowers in decent sized clusters. Has always flowered continuously in my climate. There used to be a home with circular drive where I previously lived whose drive was lined with a short hedge of Sarabande. I don't think I ever saw it when it wasn't ablaze with solid color. Very impressive when used in mass.

Spanish Sun - A very little known deep yellow, double, very fragrant Boerner floribunda. Probably the source of fragrance (and color) for New Day (Friesia) and Sunsprite.

Sunbonnet - A deep yellow, sometimes with chartreuse tones, Herb Swim introduction, likely released to compete with Spanish Sun. More double and not quite as fragrant as Spanish Sun, but to my eye, a more interesting shade of yellow.

Swantje - When really happy, this can produce some very double flowers. When those happen, it reminds me of a dwarf Sombreuil, but that takes some heavy fertilizing and milder conditions than my plant usually enjoys. This was originally a "hybrid polyantha", introduced in 1936. The double flowers fade white from pale yellow-apricot petals with a light fragrance.
I have always loved what went in to creating this rose. Dorothy Perkins, Ophelia and several of her seedlings and sports, and Pernetiana through Pernet's 1901 Sunburst. One brought in to the US through the imports for the San Jose Heritage.

Sweet Vivian - To my eye, Frank Raffel's masterpiece. Usually less double than Vintage's form, but still as lovely and fun. Cream white petals heavily picoteed with dark, bright pink; centers illuminated by golden anthers and stamen. Not a lot of fragrance, but who cares? Darker, quite mildew resistant foliage on an acceptably vigorous, shorter plant. Those flowers have always felt to me like the fresh scrubbed cheeks of an English milk maid. I'm sorry if that's sexist!

Titian - An Australian entry! Deep pink, very nicely scented blooms which often show almost quartered centers until they open fully. Classed as a floribunda, but easily used as a repeat flowering climber. Horse lovers take note of the HMF References. "The horse ‘Titian’ was racing in Sydney 1949-1950, so its rose namesake was probably bred three or four years earlier."

Verona - Soft, very light pink quite double and almost thornless. Used as both florist and garden rose and named by its creator for his wife. Wise men do NOT name garbage for their wives! That should say it all.

Vesper - One of the most successful of LeGrice's "brown roses". Soft, pastel orange, more pinkish toned in cooler weather and one of the more vigorous and healthy of the bunch. Never very tall, easily kept within bounds. Much more easily placed and maintained than several others of this type. One I imported from LeGrice way back in the mid eighties.

White Gene Boerner - See Gene Boerner. All the same, except color.

With any luck, I'll post photos of it growing in Florida sometime down the road.
Gracin

Tammy

I've wondered if Vintage assumed they could survive primarily on sales to their fellow Caifornians. I've no idea what the answer is, or what the rationale was, but something was clearly out of whack -- and out of the norm in comparison to other vendors (including other CA-based vendors).

That's exactly why I have only ONCE ordered from any of the wonderful EAST coast rose nurseries. I can't afford to do so.

It's not the fault of the nurseries. It's just the way it is.

As far as other CA-based vendors of Old Roses . . . Those would be . . . ??

Jeri

"We do not charge any handling fees, but customers in states which require agricultural inspections, must pay the $11.00 Agricultural Inspection fee on each order we ship. Those states are currently: AL, AR, AZ, FL, ID, LA, NC, MS, NJ, OR, SC, TN, TX, VA, WV.

Our band sized plants are shipped in boxes which hold multiples of four; four, eight, twelve and sixteen plants. Our shipping prices break at these multiples. Therefore, whenever you order in groups of four plants, you will pay less per plant. One plant costs the same to ship as four; thirteen cost the same as sixteen, etc. For specific shipping costs, consult our chart and table at the bottom of this page."

Ocala, Fla. is zone 8, for four roses, Priority Mail is $23.75. Using straight Priority for four bands to Sherry should run the cost of the roses, plus $11 mandated inspection fee required by the State of Florida, plus $23.75.

Four bands should fit in a medium Flat Rate Priority box which ships for $12.35. That is what's out of whack. Where Burlington and others use only Flat Rate where if it fits, it ships, Vintage is simply using Priority Mail which can result in significantly greater shipping costs due to higher weights, and significantly lower rates for lighter loads. The greater the distance, the higher the Priority rates. Sherry's four bands would have cost $11.40 less postage using Flat Rate.

I take both Flat Rate and regular Priority boxes with me to the post office and check the weight of anything I mail to determine which is the most cost effective. I know Vintage can't due to their higher volume, but I have mailed packages which would have cost over $30 to send regular Priority for $12.35 by using Flat Rate. I have also sent medium regular Priority boxes for less than $7 because what was inside was very light, making Flat Rate much more expensive for the size.

Had Vintage followed suit and used Flat Rate, some would pay more for fewer, lighter plants, but anyone ordering multiples, particularly across the country, should have saved up to a third of the shipping costs. Kim

I order from Vintage routinely, but I have to admit that the ag inspection fee has always been kind of a head-scratcher for me. Are the other CA vendors who supply me with clematis, gesneriads, hoyas, other tropicals and roses breaking a law, or risking being being prohibited from shipping to my state, by NOT adding that fee to every order I place?

Jeri, I'm surprised that YOU seem not to know of any CA-based old rose vendors other than Vintage. I've dealt with a couple in the very recent past, so I feel comfortable recommending these to you: first, there's a place called Burlington Roses in Visalia (roughly the central part of the state); my other recent shipment came from Greenmantle Nursery in Garberville (that's up in Humboldt Co., if memory serves).

For what it's worth, I've just pulled my most recent Greenmantle invoice from its file folder. TOTAL payment to Greenmantle for 4 own-root roses of impressive size: $92. That amount INCLUDES the shipping cost of $20 ($14 for the first, $2 for each additional plant). BTW, each of those 4 roses was custom-rooted for me.

I think other CA nurseries might spread the ag inspection costs out among all their customers, that is charge the fees to costs of doing business.

There is something a little odd about VG's relationship with USDA. French import roses are being held back becuase of size? The ag inspector should take a look at the puny plants Heirloom routinely sends out.

Quarantine maps: http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/pqm/manual/htm/419.htm#LBAM

Pest quarantine lists: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/interiorexclusion/quarantine.html

http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/pqm/manual/htm/pqm_index.htm#interior

Out of curiosity, where did you read that the USDA was holding up shipment of the French roses due to size? I haven't been able to find that. I understand how Vintage would resist shipping them out if they feel they're too small, but other than spread of pests or diseases, the ag inspectors don't care. What would make Vintage's relationship with both the USDA and California State Ag Dept different than those with other nurseries is Vintage is under an import quarantine and they are located in a pest/disease quarantine county. That gives them a double whammy with inspections and puts them under a much higher power microscope. Kim

Here is what Gregg said:

"Dear French Import Rose Customer,
On February 12th, 2013, the USDA inspectors arrived for what we expected to be a final inspection and release from quarantine of roses we had imported from France in 2011. The inspectors were concerned about a number of losses and poor growth among the Tea and China roses we received from Roseraie du Desert. These were small own-root plants which have been very slow to grow. By the end of 2012 a number of these roses had died. (Customers who ordered from among the plants that we have lost are being emailed separately.) The USDA inspectors have required one more inspection of our quarantined block of French roses to be scheduled for August of this year.
We are very sorry, therefore, to have to tell you that the import roses that are now set aside for you and will be confirmed in March, CANNOT be shipped UNTIL the Fall of this year, after our final inspection of the quarantined plants.
We have been told by the USDA inspectors that they could find NO EVIDENCE OF PATHOGENS that would prevent the roses from being released. Their desire is to confirm that the plants that have not grown well show new growth and increased vigor this season."

It sounds to me as if it's another double whammy. Nothing thicker than 10 mm (.39"), INCLUDING the bud union, can be brought into the US from over seas. That is a very wispy, thin, immature plant. We all know how resistant small, own root Teas and Chinas (and those which perform as they do) can be to getting growing vigorously. I'm not surprised they had losses with that kind of material and knowing the issues in propagating in their climate.

The USDA zone map shows both Sebastopol and Visalia as being the same zone, but they are two, vastly different environments as far as propagation and growing many plants are involved. From the Sperling's Best Places to Live site, http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/california/visalia

Visalia has higher temps, fewer foggy days, more sunny days and those are all skewed to improve own root rose production. Put cuttings in a sunny green house with high heat (100+ F), high humidity and mist and they grow like weeds. High heat suppresses fungi, bacteria and viral issues. Keep the humidity and actual water high under those conditions and cuttings root quickly and grow vigorously. Sequoia made great use of those conditions and pumped out rooted cuttings of many plant types very quickly. Vintage does the best they can with the climate they have, but it is far from ideal for rooting roses, particularly types which are slow to root and produce weaker, slower to mature plants. Cooler, damper, foggier conditions provide significantly greater support for bacterial and fungal infections. High heat really knocks those issues down. I spent many visits, over many years, melting in 120 F, 100% humidity, wandering greenhouses at Sequoia! Mr. Moore, and the roses, loved it.

It appears it's the "failure to thrive" issue which concerns the inspectors. While they seem to not have found any pests or diseases, they are paying attention to the initial plant losses and the cuttings' resistance to perform. That COULD be due to the inherent vigor of the roses; the unsuitability of the material size to being safely transported through the process: the less suitable climate under which they are being held, grown and propagated; or the method of propagation. Greater success with weaker or slower to root types is to be had from budding on suitable stocks, and that is not Vintage's method. OR it could be due to a still unknown pathogen they may be infected with. Once they are comfortable the latter isn't the case, they will release them for sale. Kim

Climate Sebastopol, CA
Rainfall (in.) 41.6
Snowfall (in.) 0
Precipitation Days 77
Sunny Days 261
Avg. July High 83
Avg. Jan. Low 35.7
Comfort Index (higher=better) 46
UV Index 4.9
Elevation ft. 175

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Sebastopol, CA, gets 42 inches of rain per year. The US average is 37. Snowfall is 0 inches. The average US city gets 25 inches of snow per year. The number of days with any measurable precipitation is 77.

On average, there are 261 sunny days per year in Sebastopol, CA. The July high is around 83 degrees. The January low is 36. Our comfort index, which is based on humidity during the hot months, is a 46 out of 100, where higher is more comfortable. The US average on the comfort index is 44.

Climate Visalia, CA United States
Rainfall (in.) 10.2
Snowfall (in.) 0
Precipitation Days 40
Sunny Days 275
Avg. July High 97
Avg. Jan. Low 37.2
Comfort Index (higher=better) 54
UV Index 5.7
Elevation ft. 299

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Visalia, CA, gets 10 inches of rain per year. The US average is 37. Snowfall is 0 inches. The average US city gets 25 inches of snow per year. The number of days with any measurable precipitation is 40.

On average, there are 275 sunny days per year in Visalia, CA. The July high is around 97 degrees. The January low is 37. Our comfort index, which is based on humidity during the hot months, is a 54 out of 100, where higher is more comfortable. The US average on the comfort index is 44.

Roses Unlimited has always been willing to ship fewer than three roses, but they charge an additional fee for doing do.

Last spring I sent a gift of one Tea to a friend in RU's zone 3. With the rose, the $5.00 handling fee applied to all orders, regular shipping, and the shipping surcharge for ordering only one plant, my total was just under $30.00.

Jeri

GENE BOERNER (PINK) X 2
PINK CHIFFON X1
MADAME B.R. CANT (NOT RARE I KNOW BUT A LONG DESIRED ONE)
Thanks for the suggestions from all of you experienced rose lovers above. I hope this has helped them in some way. Will post on facebook so other rose lovers can help them to clear their stock.