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Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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Posted by
jacqueline3 9CA (
My Page) on
Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 18:39
| Any thoughts? Just took this pic 5 minutes ago. It is a two cane wonder right now, but lots of new sprouts are coming up from the roots (I know they are the same rose because I planted this one as a rooted cutting which I rooted), so I have hope in getting a larger looking bush. It blooms for 10 months, and is incredibly fragrant. Jackie |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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- Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 18:53
| It reminds me of my 'Pierre Notting' -- the HP, NOT 'Souvenir de Pierre Notting' the Tea. That doesn't mean I think that's what it probably is -- there's a few Bourbon-like HPs with flowers like that. But, since I have PN, that was the first thing which came to my mind. Also look at 'Dupuy Jamain'. And while you have the chance, look through Vintage Gardens' website at other HPs, narrowing the search by color. :-) ~Christopher |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| It's wonderful! Do you think it still might be an HT or climbing HT? I wish I had an answer. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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- Posted by zjw727 Coastal Oregon Zone (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 20:16
| What gorgeous flowers! I can just imagine what that color really looks like in person. Red is so difficult to capture with a camera. The color/form DOES look like Pierre Notting, which I would love to grow. It's been on my lust-list for a LONG time, but it's probably not a good plan in this climate. |
Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.82282
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jackie, I thought of Dupuy Jamain (Christopher's second suggestion) when I saw your rose. RVR rates Dupuy fff for fragrance but as I recall, I found it quite fragrant when I last sniffed one. I think Connie at Hartwood has a good pic of her bush/flowers on her website. What a wonderful rose you started! Where did you get the cutting? Carol |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely look them all up. Carol - I got the cutting from a rose bush which is still growing in our garden, under a quince bush and a flowering crab apple tree and all sorts of other stuff. It grows in the shade, and only blooms in the Spring. Silly me, I thought that meant it was a once bloomer! I was rooting cuttings of some of the ancient roses in our garden which were planted by my DH's ancestors, so I did this one too. Low and behold, planted in the sun it blooms from about March through Nov! Jackie |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Yes Please.....lol What a lovely rose. Hope you can root some more cuttings and that some one will offer it for sale in the future. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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- Posted by zjw727 Oregon Coast 8b (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 12:36
| Going OT: Jackie, do you do anything with the crab apples? I've had a major hankering for crab apple jelly for YEARS- it's one of those things you just cant GET unless you know someone who has a crab apple tree. It was one of my favorite things when I was a kid. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| zjw727 - no, I do not do anything with the crab apples - I had no idea there was such a thing as crab apple jelly. I will look it up. Also, I have a niece who is the pastry chef for a fancy restaurant, and makes all sorts of jams & jellies & curds. I will ask her. If it is not too hard, I will try it. We do get lots of crab apples. Jackie |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Repeat bloom on what you thought was a once-bloomer! I love those kinds of surprises. When you settle on an ID, please post. Also, cuttings for sale (Kippy'ssuggestion) would be wonderful for others in your area. Carol |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| What color are your crab apples? Any idea what type? I am sure you get more chill than we do, but I really want to plant one for mom. They had one when she was a child in Denmark that they made Crab Apple Butter with that her brother had to have with every meal. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jackie, Maybe you could make hard cider with the crab apples. Cath |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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Kippy, I dunno if there is any crossover between European fruit varieties and those bred in the US....but in the UK, the very best crab for jelly is 'John Downie' - large (ish) golden and blushed crab-apples which make a superb amber jelly.
We add rowan berries, cherry plums and blackberries to the crab mix....and call it 'hedgerow jelly'. Will go along with Cath's suggestion too - if you hire a fruit press, cider can be made easily with crab-apples. Jacqueline, no ideas about the rose (although I did fleetingly think of Fisher Holmes) |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| About Pierre Notting, Mine is a lot more purplish. Dupuy Jamain isn't a bad idea. Whatever it is, I'm glad you have saved it. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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Jackie,
They look very similar to the Gruss an Teplitz that I saw at the new Ruth's Rose Garden at FSC campus. It is listed as a Bourbon by Paul Barden from the late 1800s. It is listed as a hybrid tea by Helpmefind. Reds are very hard to photograph and I hope I attached the correct picture from my phone. At any rate, yours is a beautiful rose! Btw, Malcolm also photographed this rose and it is featured on his photos of the new garden taken about a week ago on page 2. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jacqueline, did you ever get an ID on your gorgeous old rose? I don't suppose it might be 'Henry Nevard'? Blooms look similar to me, and it is reputed to be very fragrant... Just hazarding a guess, but would love to know if you settled on its class/variety... I found this thread while researching HP's in general, and more specifically to try to find out which HP's might do well in my cllimate. 'Reine des Violettes' does do very well here; can she be the only one? Whoever/whatever your rose is, it's a real beauty, and I'm glad you were able to propagate it, and discover its reblooming capability. Virginia |
Here is a link that might be useful: 'Henry Nevard' on HMF
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jackie -- The color on this photo is pretty accurate on my screen, FWIW. This is the Dupuis Jamain I got from Jim Delahanty, who grew it for years. IIRC, JD said that it was not a really generous repeat bloomer. (JERI) |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jeri, that's a beautiful rose right there. I'm very impressed that you can photograph reds accurately. Virginia |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| It looks like Dupuis Jamain to my eyes. But I don't remember DJ having a strong scent when I stiffed him. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| I don't know about you lot, but I want to go to tea at Campanula's place - that hedgerow jelly sounds absolutely divine! I would be more than willing to bring the scones and cream... :-) |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Thanks, guys. Honestly I have given up trying to put a specific name on it. All of the suggestions are possible. The colors never look quite right to me ( Henry Navard looks too red, Dupuis Jamain looks too pale in many pics, etc). So, I decided to just enjoy it and not drive myself crazy. My rose has, I must say, a completely consistent color. One thing, it has sent up suckers all around it for about 10 inches. I dug one up and moved it last year, and it is about 18 inches high and thriving. So, now I have three bushes. When the two which are in the sun bloom again I will take pictures of the blooms, and leaves & prickles etc, and post them on here. Since it makes suckers, maybe I will pot one up and give it to the Historic Cemetery rose garden in Sacramento. Jackie |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Haha ... I mean sniffed...not stiffed! That's a wonderful idea Jackie... I normally am not a red rose person, but your unknown rose sure is beautiful. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Virginia, I normally do no better with reds than anyone else does. THIS rose just happened to be a color I could capture. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| prickles, thanks for the clarification- I was wondering what sort of rose pruning or propagation technique that might be! (Of course, it was also pretty late when I read it...) ;>) Virginia |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jacqueline, it's just as gorgeous without a name as with. And that little element of mystery adds a hint of spice to its beauty... I think it's a great idea to pot up a volunteer for the Cemetery. Virginia |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Jeri, I was hoping there was some magic formula you had figured out, and even if you weren't going to share the secret, that would give me hope that I might someday stumble across it myself! Oh, well- I occasionally get a good color likeness of red flowers, but it's down to luck, not skill. Virginia |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| I can sometimes manipulate the color a bit with software, but too much of that, and what you end up with is worse. I DO tend to get more accurate reds on a foggy morning, when the light is very soft and flat. |
RE: Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
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| Here is a picture of my baby one of this rose - pretty good pic of leaves & new growth & blooms. Very very fragrant. Jackie |
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