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SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Posted by marcia_pa5 PA5_FL9b S.SarasotaC (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 1, 12 at 19:04

I received my 3 roses from Chamblees today--SDLM, Pat Austin, and Mrs. Dudley Cross (all own root). I expected small rose plants and they are. But SDLM is almost non-existent, just three short twigs about two inches tall. It lost a bunch of leaves in shipping but still has a few. I'm hoping the roots are nice but I haven't had a chance to check them yet.

I know it is a small rose bush when mature. Any guesses--how long do you think it will take to grow to a foot tall? It's warm here, has been in the 80s for a few weeks but supposed to drop to the mid-70s on Sunday.

I'm waiting a few days to plant them so they can recover a little from their travels.
Marcia


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I got my SdLM as an own root 1 gallon. I didn't think it was especially slow to grow. If I got a one gallon that looked particularly small, I'd leave it in the pot for a bit longer than usual. My advice is to wait a while and let it grow a bit in the pot before planting it.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I don't think SdlM would be slow to grow in your area.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Marcia, I may have said once that it's a slow grower. Maybe it's more a matter of size. It takes SDLM the same time to get 3 feet tall that it takes a Tea rose to get 6 feet tall - maybe a little longer. At least in my garden. To me once SDLM gets to about 2 feet tall it becomes a slow grower, but that's purely my observation in my garden not scientific.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I find it to be fairly vigorous, though mine is on fort. Garden Atlanta has given you great advice. Pot it up in a gallon pot and let it recover from it's trip and grow some before you plant it in the ground.

Morning sun for a week or so then into the sun. Some will tell you not to fertilize at first. However, I would consider a weak solution of a liquid organic. I have recently added a tiny handful of Merry Mix to my bands and they are responding nicely.

Merry mix is alfalfa pellets. Pure alfalfa pellets with no salt.

Veronica


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Thank you all for the advice and information. I'll put the pots where they won't be in the hottest sun and see how they look in a few days. The soil in the pots was pretty moist when I got them but I re-watered to help settle the soil that was displaced in shipping.

I will try not to compare SDLM's progress with Mrs. B.R. Cant that I planted January 2011--she is now 3 feet tall and 4 feet wide :)
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Marcia,
If you check Sherry's blog, she mentions SDLM's spread - I think she stated 6 ft. That's mine too. I'd say that is your bigger concern for planting - allowing for its spread without it being crowded. Maybe Sherry will say more. It's always better to go with the plant's nature than have to fight it.
You mention 3 twigs.
I recommend the following action with all own root roses:
1. Normally, I give them a week to recover from transport.
2. Repot them. Since you bought in spring, I recommend 1 gallon pots. Also, I recommend repotting today or tomorrow given that we're under the gun for increasing temperatures.
3. When doing so gently open the root ball. Sometimes, there is actually more than one plant in the pot. The 3 twig report leads me to believe you might have 3 rooted plants. If so, divide and repot them individually. We don't tend to think of plants needing a UN peace keeping force, but the truth is when more than one rooted plant is planted together they eventually compete even though they are the "same" plant - they can't cooperate because they don't share roots. Eventually, only the strongest will survive or under stressful conditions they might all be lost. This inevitability can be avoided by dividing and repotting now. You must go to the center of the root ball where the stems enter the soil to know. This can be frightening, but I know you can do it! Just make sure you're relaxed and not in a hurry and be gentle.
4. Once repotted, since it's already March I recommend three weeks in the new pots and then into the ground.
In future, I recommend only autumn purchases for Florida. This allows plenty of time for repotted root growth before transplanting into the garden. And it allows that transplanting to be done in Jan or Feb while temperatures are not stressful and subsequent garden acclimation before temperatures begin to soar.
Since you cannot do that this time, it is imperative that they have the necessary water during this first year.
And as for the foot tall question: probably easily this year although my experience with own roots is similar to the clematis growth adage of SCL: seems to Sleep the first year, just Creeps along the second year, and Leaps into action the third year. For both this behavior is reflective of the plants intelligently developing their root systems first. The roses are actually ahead of the clematis pattern though - starting to show some leap at the end of year two.
Note that I do not use chemical fertilizers to stimulate them and I strongly advise against it. Nitrogen stimulants like alfalfa fight the natural root establishment described above by stimulating growth above. This imbalance is not natural and therefore not healthy for the plant. Your patience will be rewarded, trust me.
I could go on, but I've got to get out there in the garden myself!
Happy Spring! And good luck!
Chris


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

It's been a while since I ordered from Chamblee's, but it was my experience that individual roses purchased from them frequently consisted of multiple plantlets in one container. Depending on the variety, I sometimes separated the plantlets and grew each one individually; usually, though, I grew them on just as they arrived -- as a single plant (which sometimes proved to be not such a great idea).

I suspect that the three short defoliating twigs you received are three separate rooted cuttings, & I would guess that the root systems are in need of further development before planting or re-potting. I would keep your SdlM in the container it came in, sink that in a larger container, and pamper it for a few months. IMO, promoting root development is the best thing you can do now for your under-developed plant.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I realized I may have made a mistake. It's break time from transplanting and planting, so I'll amend. I said gallon pots. I'm not any good with size, distance, volume by eye. In the fall, I use gallon pots. Now I recommend the size that they arrived in from Chamblees - I think they're smaller than 1 gal.
OK. Now I don't have to feel guilty for potentially giving bad advice.

Jax is right in echoing my perception, but wrong about delaying. There are two reasons for this - the accomodating temperatures now to allow for easier adjustment and if you delay you delay the setback which may or may not occur due to root disturbance. The sooner the better as I previously stated - today or tomorrow if possible.
Chris


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Jax, I'm sure you're right about the multiple plants in pots. Probably at least two in each pot. I don't think I'm brave enough to separate the individual twigs but I'll see what the plant looks like once I remove it from the pot to plant and decide then what to do.

Thank you for elaborating, Chris. The pots are, I believe, what passes for one gallon pots these days. That doesn't mean that the plants or roots are gallon size plants, if you know what I mean. Here is a photo.

SDLM
Photobucket

L-R: Mrs. Dudley Cross, SDLM, Pat Austin
Photobucket

A couple other facts to consider. I'm a snowbird who will be here just a couple more months, so I want to get these in the ground and started growing. I will mulch them well and keep them watered for the next two months. It's been in the 80s here but will cool down to low 70s by Sunday, so I may plant on Saturday depending on how the forecast shapes up.

I agree about purchasing in the fall in the future. These plants should have been sent to me 2 weeks ago but my order got lost. I would like to try a Fortuniana grafted rose some time, too. Probably would be more vigorous for me. But I'll see how these do for me. They can always be replaced if they croak :0
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Pardon me for not reading sandandsun's post before repeating some of what s/he said. I have to admit that I'm obsessive about root systems and the soils they grown in. I've never grown roses in FL, but I presume that roses grown there benefit from healthy root systems just as they do elsewhere.

Since Marcia described her new SdlM as being "almost non-existent" there's very good reason to conclude that what's present in the potting soil is equally as puny. Personally, if I received a rose in the state that Marcia describes, I would not consider planting it directly in the garden until next season -- or, at the earliest, in the fall. But that's just my approach . . .

Even with robust new own-roots, I often repot them in larger containers than the one's they arrive in, and sink those in the garden for a season. I find that that strategy benefits the roses, AND provides the opportunity for me to fiddle around with placement without too much hassle. Growing for a while in sunken pots was advice Pat Henry gave me when I made my first RU purchases almost 20 years ago. It's advice that I've chosen to follow simply because it works so well for me.

Gardening continues to teach me patience.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Jax, I may do as you suggest with that rose--just plant it pot and all and mulch. We may come down for a couple of weeks in July and I can check it out then to see how it and the roots are doing. I want to wait until the soil in the pot dries out a little before messing with it. I guess I'm not making any decisions until I do the root check :)
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it slow?

Marcia -- I posted the above before seeing your photos. It looks like Chamblee's, as usual, did send multiple plants of each variety.

Thanks for posting the photos. They are very similar in size to what I used to receive from Chamblee's. Good luck with them.

Incidentally, you chose three terrific varieties!


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I'll just say that I got Louis Philippe and Spice from Chamblees late last year, and they were a bit larger than the largest plant to the right in your picture.

That SdlM, however, is really small!

SdlM was a small plant for me, and never got over two feet tall. It did get a lot of blackspot for me, was constantly defoliating, and I think that had a lot to do with it.

Would it be possible to take the pot with you?


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I was thinking the same thing myself--SdlM might have to go north for the summer. I haven't decided yet.
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I was going to suggest that, too, Marcia. Then when you get back she'll be raring to go in the cooler temps here and really take off. By then maybe you can separate your multiples.

I'm pretty sure I have planted and transplanted in the heat of summer, but I was always here to give them daily water. I would be afraid to leave babies like your SDLM over their first summer.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I know it's not the perfect rose, and it's real dog in some places. I had issues with it.

But I do miss it. It has the kind of fragrance that carries on the air. The stems are scented with the most delicious fragrance, and when you rub them, the scent lingers on your skin. And I find the buds really beautiful, especially when they are just starting to show color.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I bought SDLM from Chamblees as a one gallon quite a few years ago [5-6? Cant remember....] I made the mistake of planting honeysuckle near my patio bed where she is planted - I am now killing it off.....last fall, I got all the honeysuckle off SDLM and was amazed to find that she was not the small rose that had grown there for several years but a tall lovely specimen that has spread out and almost has an unbrella form. It is covered with buds about to bloom. Mine does seem to want to spread and canopy which I think is lovely. Now that the honeysuckle is torn off it, it can really shine. I havent pampered this bush at all and it is really a beauty, and tough too. Maybe you could plant it and have someone look in on it to water while you are gone.
Judith


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I've had SDLM in your zone (south of Sarasota) for 3 years and it was a very slow grower for me until I dug and potted it up a few months ago whereupon it doubled in size-from 18" diameter to 30" in 2 months.

My SDLM is own-root and in comparison to Mrs. Dudley planted at the same time SDLM stayed small in-ground whereas MDC threw canes out willy nilly almost since planting. Both were in similar part sun areas.

My other Bourbons seem just as slow to grow, they may want more water than they get from me and rainfall. I water pots more than in-ground plants and that is the likely difference. Or they like potting medium more than my lousy Florida "soil".

I LOVE Bourbons for their luscious blooms and heavenly scent and they seem to love Florida climate. But yes mine are slow growers.

Denise


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

BellaGallica, I love the smell of roses. The damasks and albas I have in PA--I go outside to sniff them every day when they're in bloom.

Sherry, I think I've made up my mind that she is going north with me. I'm going to plant her in the pot to help keep the soil cooler and protect the roots from the hot days we've been having, then pull up the pot when we're ready to leave.

Alameda, I love the smell of the scented honeysuckle, too, but it grows to be a monster. I have the Hall's in PA but the coral here which seems to be scentless and maybe more well behaved? At least so far. It isn't too near the roses either. Your SdlM sounds lovely.

Denise, it sounds like the idea to keep the plant in the pot is the best thing to do right now. Your experience sounds encouraging. I hope my Mrs. Dudley grows as well as yours did. Do you still grow her?

Thanks again for everyone's input.
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Contrary to almost everyone's advice I leave the roses,whether band-size or gallons from Chamblee's, in their original pots for about a week and then plant them in the ground. I put thorny branches around them to protect them from rodents, mulch and water well and that's it. 95% of the time it works very well. I did this to my two SdlM, one from Chamblee's and the other a band from Vintage. The band has been much slower to get going, partly because its location is not nearly as good, but both are growing and blooming well. The very early hybrid teas are the only roses that don't like this approach as much, but I'm not sure whether they'd do better with potting them up for a year or two. Quite possibly they would but I tend to kill roses growing in pots. To each his own in this regard, everyone pretty well knows what works for them after a while.

Ingrid


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I'm another one who tends to grow own root roses in pots for quite a long while before I plant them. Rose culture is another venture that comes down to location, location, location.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Coral honeysuckle is not well behaved, Marcia. It won't play nice with the roses, and you're right. There's no fragrance.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

As some have mentioned, it's all about location and gardening habits. I haven't planted the other two roses yet (still thinking SdlM is going north with me). With the strong wind and temps going down to the mid 40s tonight, I think I'll wait another day or two. I noticed a tiny flower bud on MDC :)

My coral honeysuckle is a slow grower right now but I'll keep in mind that it will want to take over, Sherry. I was hoping to attract hummingbirds with the red tubular flowers, but so far I've haven't seen any. Perhaps there aren't any in my area.
Marcia


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Hummingbirds do like them, but I don't know when. I grew them before roses on my stockade fence. Pretty, but their canes wound around each other, becoming thck ropes and grew into the tiny spaces between the boards, making it difficult to remove them. Here they froze to the ground in winter if I remember right. Fortunately not a problem for you in Sarasota.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Here are my three roses, after just a couple weeks. SdlM is still in a pot and going north with me in a few weeks. She did lose some leaves and one stem/plant died, but she's putting on some nice new growth.

Photobucket

Love those dewdrops.
Photobucket

Mrs. Dudley Cross was not planted where I had planned--I wanted to finish an area around a patio, so she got put there instead of further out in the yard. I'm not sure these buds will open. It's been so hot that blooms just don't open well, or if they do, they don't last long.
Photobucket

Pat Austin is doing very well. I didn't have the heart to remove the buds. This photo taken this morning. This afternoon the bloom is limp and drooping.
Photobucket

And couldn't resist the closeup.
Photobucket


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Oh my, I know I'm an obsessive, but I gotta confess that I SO want to pinch all the buds off those tiny plants.


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

I've seen SdLM in Texas, where it was a lovely plant (I don't know how old it was)
I've seen it in my garden, where it was a non-growing dawg.

I've seen Souv. de St. Anne's (its sport) in TX, where it would surely make your heart beat faster.
I've seen it in my garden, where it was a mildew-ridden non-growing dawg.

I've seen Century-old SdLM's in site, which would make you swoon.

I have concluded that it is a wonderful rose where it is wonderful and a dawg in Southern California. I pledge to enjoy it where it is good, and avoid it in Southern California.

Jeri


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RE: SDLM - is it a slow grower?

Jeri, I guess I'll find out eventually how SdlM does in my garden. I'll have to find a spot for her this fall, as I filled her spot with Mrs. Dudley.

Had a little shower this morning, and another photo opportunity. Jaxondel, the roses seems to be settling in well and putting on new growth. Because I won't be here all summer, I plan to enjoy the blooms I get to see now. Some roses seem to grow like weeds here but time will tell if Pat will or not.

Photobucket


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