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avalon2007

Bracteata Hybrids for Florida?

avalon2007
15 years ago

OK, here I go again- the pictures on the Paul Barden website are to blame for this question:

Are there any Bracteata Hybrids that will do well in South Florida z10?

My 'Mermaid' Bracteata is doing well (too well, if you know what I mean). Not blooming yet but really growing fast - Barden describes it as a "house eater" and my house would have to agree with him. I know that Mermaid may be different than the other Bracteatas in that it can thrive in this climate, but I just had to ask.

thanks,

Avalon

Comments (13)

  • malcolm_manners
    15 years ago

    'Mermaid' is the only one we've grown. Astoundingly large growing, and beautiful when it flowers, but way too few flowers for us to keep it. So it's long-gone from our garden.
    Malcolm

  • avalon2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Hi Malcolm,
    How old was your 'Mermaid'? I've been told that mine may not flower for a couple of years. I already have plans to grow 'Sally Holmes' intertwined with it, just in case it really doesn't bloom well.

  • trospero
    15 years ago

    I would think that the Moore Hybrid Bracteatas would thrive in Florida's climate as long as they could cope with the Nematode problem. Ideally you should be grafting most everything to Fortuniana roots. I would think 'Pink Powderpuff' might be a great rose in Fl.

  • avalon2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Trospero-
    Well, you've got me pegged! Pink Powderpuff is one that really caught my eye.

    About nematodes: Can they thrive in sandy soil? Do they need alot of organic matter to multiply and spread? I know that they infest the roots of plants, and that Fort is supposed to be resistant. The Miami area has a problem with them, but I'm not sure that we have a severe problem here. It may be too sandy and dry. I hope so - I don't want to have to put everything on Fort. I don't even know how to graft roses yet. Hmmm, I guess I could learn...

    thanks again,
    Avalon

  • lucretia1
    15 years ago

    Avalon,

    Nematodes DEFINITELY thrive in sandy soil. When I was a kid in Miami we had pure fine sand to grow in, and nematodes out the wazoo. Couldn't grow roses worth beans, until we tried some with the right rootstock (don't know which one it was--it was too many years ago.) We had one rose that did fine in spite of neglect and no telling what rootstock, or if it was own-root--one my parents called "Sweetheart" (and if I remember correctly it looked like the Hybrid Wichurana.)

    We also had problems with them in sandy coastal east central Florida. We didn't even bother to try and grow roses there. Between the nematodes and the disease problems, it just wasn't worth it. Of course, that was before we knew there were roses out there besides the fussy hybrid teas sold at the nurseries.

    Adding a lot of organic material helps, but with the high amount of air included in sandy soil, it burns up in a hurry.

    You might want to get in contact with rose societies in your area. They would be familiar with your conditions and could give you some good advice on if you have a nematode problem in your area and how to deal with it.

  • luxrosa
    15 years ago

    You might ask locals how 'Seafoam' does in your locale.
    It is not a first generation hybrid, but slightly more distant from the wild rose.
    'Seafoam' has been designated as an Earthkind rose, by Texas A and M, and I would take that with a grain of salt, because what is healthy in Texas might not be healthy in Florida.
    In Northern California it grows to be a pretty plant, of c. 4 and 1/2 feet tall by c. 6 feet wide, and re-blooms from spring onwards, through late autumn.

    Lux.

  • malcolm_manners
    15 years ago

    We had Mermaid at least 5 years. So it was fully mature. But it never was a good repeater.

    And yes, nematodes like dry, light, sandy soils best of all!

    Sweetheart rose -- that reminds me of some of the roses that are in groups where one would not expect resistance, but which have it anyway. So I'll add to my list. These can be grown easily, on their own roots, in Miami:

    Cecile Brunner (the sweetheart rose)
    Spray Cecile Brunner -- both of these will repeat almost constantly.

    Crepuscule -- excellent repeat, moderate climber.

    Tausendschoen -- easy and carefree. once-blooming, but the "once" in Lakeland is mid-November through early May, so I can accept that! It would be a shorter season in Miami, but as long as nights are cool, it will keep blooming.

  • jimofshermanoaks
    15 years ago

    One problem with bracteata hybrids is rust. If you are in an area susceptible to rust, such roses as Precious memories, Tangerine Jewel, Stardust, etc., might pose a problem for you. I had to dump Tangerine Jewel because the rust was so bad that it was never without it. OTOH, Out of the Night does not suffer from it at all.

    FWIW

    JimD

  • avalon2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    JimD-
    I don't think that we have rust here - never seen any. But blackspot - wow! Big time.

    My 'Iceberg' and 'Citrus Splash' have NO leaves left. I am beginning to understand why people "spade prune".

    thanks to all who responded,
    Avalon

  • ehann
    15 years ago

    Avalon,

    It is my experience that if you want to grow modern roses well in Florida, that they really need to be sprayed for blackspot on a regular basis. I have about three pink icebergs all clean because I spray.

    YMMV of course. Some OGRs can be grown no spray will acceptable resistance.

    Elaine

  • avalon2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Hi Elaine,
    for various different reasons, I won't/can't spray anything stronger than baking soda and water for black spot -
    fighting BS with BS! :)
    I am trying to grow only the ones that don't need spraying. I know that some of my roses will never look as lush as the sprayed ones, but I'm still very happy with the progress of MOST of them. 'Citrus Splash' was a BS surprise, though. We had heavy morning fogs come through for several days in a row, an CS just literally lost it!
    It is recovering now, with outstanding new growth, but it's still in the mostly denuded embarrassing stage. I just simply won't be getting another one.

  • trospero
    15 years ago

    Avalon,
    The vast majority of modern hybrids will require spraying to be grown in Florida, where humidity and heat are the disease's best friends. If you haven't already approached the closest Rose Society to get their list of recommended OGR's, then I suggest you do so. This will save you a lot of trial and error.

  • avalon2007
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Hi trospero-
    I will definitely contact the closest Rose Society for their OGR list. However, there is still going to be quite a bit of trial and error, as I live on a micro-climate island. The inland rose growers here have SIGNIFICANTLY lower temps for longer periods during winter, and the ground water inland is so close to the surface that plants can actually tap into it. One inland person has told me that her roses rotted when they reached the ground water. That's not possible where I live. There is also the issue of salt spray here, and morning fogs. I'm pretty sure that fungus is much more of a problem inland as well. The soil here isn't sandy, it's SAND! I was sorry to hear that nematodes do well in sand, but that's ok, I'll just buy/graft on Fort.
    As for the BS, I will try to pick resistant varieties and also put up with some loss of foliage on ones less resistant.
    thanks for all your help and suggestions,
    Avalon

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