My first thought was to run down to the city offices tomorrow and make my case, but after googling Ocala cemeteries and parks and history I realize I have more homework to do than to simply hand the city official the DVD and say "wouldn't this be lovely for our city?"

So, naturally, I'm turning to all of you for your wisdom and brilliance and ideas. I know there will be obstacles and red tape and talk of nematodes. Barbara Oliva said it took years to get Sacramento's garden settled in, and I want to learn from Anita and everyone out there from their experience.

Also, MCRS is in the planning stages of our November meeting which coincides with the Heritage Rose Foundation's annual meeting in Lakeland that the Central Florida Heritage Roses Society is hosting. We're thinking of having a tea there on campus, so I'm excited that I will finally get to meet some of you. I missed Anita a couple of years ago. Hopefully, everyone will come!!

Well, you can tell I'm excited, and now I need to follow through and get to work. Somebody point me in the right direction!!

Sherry

I learned A LOT in the process. ANYTHING i can do to be helpful -- call on me.

Jeri Jennings
The Heritage Roses Group

Sherry

Sherry

I'll try to think of some of it, and send it to you.

Jeri

Sherry

One thing that I've learned is that starting a garden isn't really that hard - people get excited about it - you need space and WATER and an ok to plant, but that's about it. Everybody is eager to run out and plant but then they disappear. What made our garden continue was Barbara Oliva's grit and dedication in the early days - there were years when she was about the only person out there manually turning on the water and marshalling volunteers and keeping things going. She had the idea to give classes in propagation and pruning, which brought people in - our Open Garden and the tours have helped too - and she made personal friends with one of the newspaper garden writers.

Then, I came on board with a lot of energy and love of the garden. We've made a great team, and I just hope that somebody else (or a team of somebodies) step in when my energies start to flag. I'm still younger today than Barbara was when she started working in the garden 21 years ago, so I'm hoping that I will have a long run.

We never got anything in writing about the garden operations and the city doesn't even have a written agreement with the overall Old City Cemetery Committee, which incorporated about 11 years ago and brought the rose garden under its umbrella. Being part of a nonprofit is good because that gives us insurance and a way for people to make donations tax deductible. Our volunteers sign forms making us officially city volunteers, which protects us by providing worker's comp and protects them by being able to "fire" us if we get out of hand.

We volunteers have donated or purchased thousands of dollars worth of materials and plants, and contributed thousands of hours of labor, but in the final analysis the property belongs to the city. I've often thought that the roses are OURS, not theirs, but I don't really think a lawyer would agree, and I hope it never comes down to arguing that point. The main thing that we try to do is get along with all of the parties involved.

As the manager, I probably put in 20 hours a week, between time in the garden and behind the scenes. When I retired, after 20 years as a manager, my husband said "you'd better find something else to manage because you can't spend all of your time managing me!" So, the garden has been a great outlet for my managerial skills and proclivities.

It would be wonderful for you to get such a garden established. Let me know how I can help!
Anita

Jeri

If you really wish to go ahead with this project and hope to sway civic officials, i would suggest you begin with four things:

1) Do some scouting for possible sites in your city or county. That way you will add some context about where it might be located;

2) Build a business case. Why is this garden a good idea and what can it bring to your city or county. Things such as extra green or park space if that is lacking, tourism, etc. That will depend on what is in the garden and why people will be attracted to it;

3) Begin to think about possible sources of funding, both for creating the garden and for upkeep. This would include possible grants from organizations in the state such as foundations, as well as corportate and private doners who might have an interest in such a garden. In my small town, we just recieved a $100,000.00 grant this winter from the Aviva Insurance company to refurbish the local swimming pool which had closed;

4) Build a working group and find out if you have the volunteer support necessary to design, build and maintain your heritage rose garden.

I tried to get a cold hardy rose garden idea going in my small town in Eastern Ontario several years ago. I wanted to feature Griffith Buck and some David Austin roses amongst others. The town I live in is on the Rideau Canal which is a United Nations World Heritage Site. I had my business case done, which was largely tourism related with the garden to be situated on an small unused island belonging to Parks Canada next to the boat basin which is frequented by boaters from all across Nofth America in summer. I had agreement from Parks Canada and the Town Counsel that this was a good idea. I had enough funding to get the roses and begin the design and construction phase.

Number four was the thing that killed the project for me. I had lots of verbal support from the local horticultural society but pretty much zero interest in commiting to labour to build it, or a commitment from the society to keep it up. I even had support from the local high school for student seniors in various programs to help build the garden.

The commitment to maintain the garden was the straw that broke the project. The town and Parks Canada wanted assurances that the horticultural society would maintain the garden, so parks staff didn't have to take on this task in perpetuity.

Perhaps number four is the one you need to get taken care of first. Get a working group going and get some very solid commitments from others in your rose society. Good luck with your project.

Cheers, Rideau Rose Lad

And having worked on projects like this, and having been in charge of the "care and feeding" of volunteers at two different churches, I have come to fully appreciate the value of dedicated volunteers, who can make and keep a long-term commitment.

Jeri

Sherry

What a wonderful idea. With the proliferation of KO roses, I worry about losing OGR. Public gardens are a great place to celebrate the beauty and history of these wonderful roses. Good luck!

Jeri

As we all know, some environments are more "rose-friendly" than others. The coastal plain of NC is NOT one of those environments. The fact that the Wilson Rose Garden has become such a success story is testament to a cadre of stalwart volunteers (The Wilson Deadhead Society), and an uncommonly supportive community.

A video of the garden in springtime profusion can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se77wWFXzb4

The video, unfortunately, features the modern sections of the garden. There are, however, OGRs to be found there. Incidentally, the garden contains a number of the thermotropic/phototropic modern roses hybridized by John & Robyn Sheldon.

I'm providing a link that provides info on the garden, including an overview of its history that you may find helpful.

Rose garden dreams do sometimes come true, Sherry, so follow yours.

Cath

Cath

Jeri

All I know about Sherry is that she is obviously an impassioned lover of old roses. Who knows what she'll be able to accomplish in this new venture? To Sherry I say: You go girl! And always keep this in mind: There'll never be enough beauty or enough roses in this world . . .

Cath

Cath

If you do get your public rose garden established, I will come to visit it. I have a dear brother living in Ocala. Next time I head down that way to visit him we will go to see the roses. Now I will have a double reason to get on a plane and go there.

Rosefolly

I think that, if I wanted to make a public garden of Old Roses, I would try to do what has been done in the Sacramento and Lynchburg cemeteries -- using the history of the place as a twin to the beauty and historic value of the roses.

We did something like that (on a far smaller scale) at the Stagecoach Inn, Newbury Park, CA. There were no contracts there, either -- but a few dedicated volunteers, working with the Historical Society, make it happen, and have done so for almost 20 years.

Jeri

I've been a volunteer here for nearly five years, and I love it more all the time, although at the beginning at thought that I would never last. I had allergies, I was afraid of bees, I had never really done any gardening at all and was quite ignorant - except that I had read a book about old roses and fallen in love with them. Now I look back and can see how much I've learned (and, if I'm not mistaken, I think that you and I both got into the old rose thing about the same time).

I think that if you and your allies can help your volunteers to learn about the roses, as Barbara and Anita and others helped me, you can build a willing and devoted group. It's clear that there are difficulties, but it is SO worth trying. All the best to you!

Laura

I've not done a garden project, but I've been involved in volunteering for many, many years in several different areas of my life including ham radio (community service through the city government, local disaster preparedness, air show communication support, etc.) and pet rescue. In my experience, all of the "tips" above, if considered ahead of time so you can get your ducks in a row so to speak, will only HELP **set you up for success** (I don't know how to underline ;-) I hope you think of them that way.

Volunteer time has VALUE to those donating it. Sherry, I can't dream that you wouldn't appreciate every volunteer under your wings and provide an enjoyable and enriching experience for them as well as letting them know how much you value their time. That ethic will keep volunteers coming back (even the knuckleheads ;-)

For many of you, the following is preaching to the choir, but it needs to be emphasized. The wrinkle for a project like this comes from the *Entity* that is in charge of the Volunteer Group (VG). In this case, unless land is donated without restrictions to the VG, which has been set up as a charitable organization, it is the Entity that will make or break the project. It also needs to be understood, that the Entity, may consist of different people over time that may have different values and visions. Even the people *above* the Entity may change similarly. Therefore, preparing for this with bargaining in the beginning for as much autonomy as possible, Sherry will better set herself up for ***success***.

Yes, having enough volunteers is an issue over time - remember the Volunteer Rule: Only 10% of the people do 100% of the work! If you start smaller and grow, I wouldn't worry about that part. But what will shut a project down is an overseer that has a different vision.

Sorry if my emphasis above looks tacky, I'm an HTML moron ;-)

Sherry, many hugs to you, I wish that I could give them in person! I wish you the utmost success. I hope you keep us all posted on how you're doing on this so we can live vicariously through you ;-)

I haven't started anything yet. I've been mulching my garden. However, I do want to educate myself and get prepared. I have comrades in the rose society smarter than me about these things so that's a good thing, and my passion must be good for something even if my know-how is limited.

Campanula, you always bowl me over with the things you say. Your contrarian days are over, Ms. Softie. Ms. Dynamic? Wouldn't that be nice? Keep those vibes coming. (Do you really read my blog?)

Laura and Lagomorphmom, thanks for your hugs and best wishes. They're much appreciated as is your intelligent input.

Jeri and Cath, thanks for the warnings of the pitfalls to come. If you think of anymore, let me know.

Rosefolly, I look forward to your visit. I'll keep you posted.

Anita, again thank you for all your thoughts.

Windeaux, thanks for your support and encouragement and for the Wilson Rose Garden links. We'll see if Ocala can rise to the occasion as Wilson did.

I just thought of a question. How do public gardens handle the early years of newly planted babies and teenager roses in the gawky stage? I feel more comfortable with an informal setting like the cemetery for that reason, but what do I know? Oh, did you have events to raise money or were all the roses donated? Any big donors or lots of little donors? One thing that scares me a bit is that Anita's energies have mostly gone to the city garden, leaving her garden to take a back seat. It's hard to do everything, I know, but I'd like to avoid that situation - at least that's what I say now. Or maybe I'm just the one to get the ball rolling. Who knows?

Sherry

I think the most critical factor in regard to your ease or difficulty in your relations with the local government is how much they value the garden. In our case our organization spawned (perhaps not the best word) gardens, two festivals, an historic encampment and an educational field day for a generation of grade school students yet was always viewed as unimportant. Regardless of how it is/was viewed what really matters is what it accomplished. It is just that if your goal is valued, your work will be easier.

"Mighty oaks from little acorns grow." You go girl.

Cath

What is your organization?

Sherry

As for not following through, and under many other shoulda, coulda, woulda regrets, I forgot to mention Kerin's No. 1 Rule of Volunteerism (taught to me by many before me!): You Are a Volunteer Also. Ergo, it is not your job, your albatross or your stress. Some stress is positive and some is negative, I know you know the difference from your work, so pay attention to your little voice auditor, life is too short to volunteer doing something that is a pain in the tushkie.

Btw, Kerin's No. 2 Rule of Volunteerism Is: If you do a task well, the job is yours forever because you did such a good job.

Kerin's No. 3 Rule of Volunteerism: If you do a task poorly, the job is yours until you do it well. (See Rule No. 2)

Lastly, daylilies would be *smashing* around the roses.

More hugs, K

Cath

NOW there's no room for most of them, tho that garden still has a good many of the Irises we planted back then. There's no room for them because of the REAL error we made. EYE made.

I underestimated the eventual size of the mature roses. So that is ONE CROWDED GARDEN. Still pretty. But if I were designing it today, I would do some things differently -- given the small size of this garden. This was taken in the spring, maybe 4 years ago, but by Fall, the plants are enormous.

Jeri

I do have a nice garden at home, and this is the time of year when I have an illusion of control over it. While it's not my main focus, it still gives me pleasure. I am reluctant to have strangers come see it because I'm pretty well known as a Master Gardener and garden writer and rose garden manager, and it's very hard to live up to their expectations. But I happily share it with friends, family and fellow rose lovers - just not garden tours!

About dealing with the early stages of a garden - because we have so much room in the cemetery, the roses were mostly planted with plenty of space to grow. Having the burial plots cleared of weeds and planted with roses was such an improvement that I don't think there was any pressure to make it look like a conventional garden. There was almost no pruning of the roses in the first several years. I think that I first visited it three or four years after its establishment, and it looked both barren and overgrown, with big unruly roses surrounded by weeds and wood chips. We've done a huge amount of work adding companion plants, including annuals that self-seed and perennials. That takes volunteer time to maintain them, of course. We volunteers primarily work on the roses, of course, but we like the big unruly look and focus on the roses being healthy and not blocking pathways or monuments. The garden is still mostly roses and wood chips, with plenty of weeds, but it looks more like a garden now than it did before.

The cemetery went from roses only to roses with companion plants - at home, my experience was more like Jeri's with the Stagecoach Garden (which is a little gem). I filled in with perennials and annuals and the garden was quite pretty in early days while the roses got established, but it's changed a lot as the roses and trees have shaded and crowded some of the planting beds. It still is pretty but it's not got the variety that it once has - the roses dominate.
Anita

Jeri

Does anyone think it is necessary to create a non-profit group or will it suffice to be an unofficial group? Probably the city will be concerned about liability. I read on our city parks website that they will go 50/50 contribution up to some $ figure but that is designated only for projects where the land is owned by the group/entity. One problem at this early stage is that I don't know who owns the two old cemeteries that I've been thinking about. Perhaps the funeral home corp that owns the one next to them. I guess I would approach them as well. The big cemetery next to the two old ones is a perpetual care lawn type cemetery, but the old ones have monuments and headstones and lots of trees scattered around. I have yet to take a walk in them. That's my next step. DH thinks the veteran's park would be a good possibility. It's already got the sidewalks, benches and other hardscape - probably an acre or two of mostly grass, I think, in a central sunny location, much more visible than the cemeteries. I'll have to check that, too.

I really appreciate your latest comment, Anita. It seems to have had a calming effect on me.

Lago, those are some good rules to keep in mind as I go forward.

Jeri, thank you for that photo of the Stagecoach garden. Very impressive even if it is 'planted wrong'. I'll need photos like that to get authorities off the Knock Out track, I think. Since my garden is totally no-spray, I think I would have some credibility with them about which roses would work in a lowest maintenance environment, and they could even visit mine for a firsthand view possibly.

Sherry