I'm with Sue about putting more than one plant on each structure...I often pair a once bloomer with a continual bloomer (e.g., I have Chevy Chase (vigorous once bloomer) on a tripod and I've added the Noisette Belle Vichysoisse to it to add continuous bloom once Chevy Chase is finished. I also have a clematis on each arch or tripod to add color (and leaves in some cases) to them.

I did make a huge entrance arch with a New Dawn on each side (only one variety of rose) but I'll add a different variety of clematis on each side..

When I find that one rose is getting eaten up too badly by the more aggressive one, I'll dig up the smaller/weaker rose and move it somewhere else.

I'm finding that the descriptions about the ultimate size of mature roses that I read in the books vary so much depending on location, that I have to just try them myself...hope I didn't ramble too much.

Robert

About Cecile. I remember Missy saying that she had her son get up on a ladder and trim hers with an electric hedge trimmer once a year. I'm ashamed to say that I've given up trimming mine except for getting it out of the pathway. It's just beyond me. Once we had a late snow and the rebar entrance arch holding one of the Ceciles fell flat on it's face. I cried until Michael hauled it upright with the truck and propped it up with wood. That was 4 or 5 years ago.

Yes, that's what I meant. One rose on each side of each post. They will have to share the same post climbing up to the arch, then one goes one way, the other goes onto the other arch.

They can mix, or match, I'm in no position to think of what even to put in there at this point, but I think my Mottisfont project will soon be started, think I found a guy to till and set the posts for me and other garden projects. I can't do all the hard work myself.

I'm using cedar posts, I'm thinking setting them 5' apart. Does that sound about right? I'll have to figure it right as to length because if they are too short, you can't put it back on.

I don't think I want them quite a tall as Roberts, but they will need to handle a robust rose, so maybe I will need the posts and arches taller than I think, and I will have to figure enough to set them in concrete below the frost line the required depth which I've forgotten, just read it somewhere.

Aliska,
My posts are about 5 ft a part from each other. I've planted a BIG rambler on ever other wooden post. They are alternating in blue (Violette, Bleu Magenta, Veilcheinbleu, and Rose Marie Viaud)..I also have three white ramblers (Felicite Perpetue, Adelaide d'Orleans, and another...maybe Alberic Barbier). The wooden posts in between I've put apricot colored Tea/Noisettes which I've been told on this forum, will NOT get large enough to cover the structure as I had intended (Gloire de Dijon, Kaiserin Freidrich, Ley's Perpetual, Duchesse d'Aurstadt, etc). I've put smaller roses in the odd spaces...and catmint below. Wish us luck.

Robert

Thank you for responding. I thought 5' about right. You are in a different zone, so my frost line will be deeper.

I do so wish you luck. There will no doubt be disappointments along the way, but your color scheme sounds beautiful.

I'm going to have to put careful thought into what kind of roses to put in there, I want big ones, repeat bloomers, and would like white, shades of pink and deep pink, maybe certain shade of red, then fill in with other colorful things in between, since I'm pinched for room, I will probably put smaller roses and get some more color there with apricot, etc., like you have. That's about as far ahead as I can think.

When it gets done, it will probably be sometime in June, the shop isn't sure about bending the rebar, they want everything set up before they come out to look at it . . .so I'll try to get it that far.

I'm so excited for you. You are an inspiration, as others, there's so many beautiful planting schemes on this thread. Did you set the posts in regular concrete mix or that stuff you pour in and dump in water. I'm thinking use the regular.

I'm just getting ready to print out the two photos I saved so I can show the guy and the shop how it is to be.

I'm going to have to think really hard about the roses, maybe olga will help me find the right ones for the main show. I remember when you asked advice and were choosing your roses, but you were so far ahead of me, I didn't know the names anyway. Veilchenblau I have ordered for another spot, so I don't think I'll put one there but may want another one for up against the garage. I have to be careful not to take on too much, don't know how much watering I'm going to have to do.

I'm probably going to have to set up an above-ground irrigation system. I was asking my son about his. He says it sprays his Knockout and other plantings. I said I know that is a tough rose, but I would want too much water getting on the leaves especially in the hot sun. So many things to think about.

I'm confused about ramblers and climbers. I want to cover as much of all the arches as possible.

Here's a couple of mine, taken before the big freeze we are going to have tonight.
We built this one with 4x4s, then used 1"x2"s to make the trellising.
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These are just 4x4s with cattle panel attached. The roses are only 2 years old, in a couple of more years we won't be able to see the cattle pannel. It doesn't get much cheaper than this.
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The pictures are kind of distorted. It's hard to see, but the panels are zig zagged along one side of the rose garden.
Carrie

That looks so lovely and peaceful, Carrie.

I really like the idea of using cattle panels....I guess they're the same as hog panels, right?....

Aliska, I just set my landscaping timbers into the ground...They'll probably rot and I'll cross that bridge probably sooner than I want....On my pergola, I set the 6x6 posts into concrete that we mixed before placing it in the holes...that structure is much sturdier.

Robert

Yeah, I wish I could do that, but mine are going in concrete and I'm using cedar. Now I have to find out the frost line here. I don't want them heaving the first winter and looking crooked, anything can always happen, tree limb could come down and take a couple out.

I'd just stick mine in the ground, but you can DIY, and I'm going to have to pay to have the heavy parts done.

OK, here's a thought. On my photo forum somebody had a bird feeder, I wanted one, long story, guy sent me plan for what I would describe as a "baffle" box. He buried his cedar post deep into that, about 16 inches as I remember.

The hardware store put the cedar box together for me for $6, and I'll need at least 6 to 8 of those, but maybe that might be the thing to do for me, more expensive, but if they have to be dug out again and straightened/maintained, less hassle than concrete deep in the ground. I could cut and screw myself if I had to but would rather not because I'm not that accurate of a driller and have to hand saw, my circular saw is gone, son probably has something to do with that.

The box is square with a 4" X 4" opening for the post, with what is supposed to be about 1-1/2 to 2 inches sticking out on each corner (my calculations were off by about 3/4" as I neglected to factor in the width of the boards), about 1' tall. That's to keep it from twisting in the ground and help stabilize, never heard of such a thing before. The guy who buried it for me really packed the dirt in tight around it.

I can't remember what the lumber for the box cost, not that bad for one and I have to pay $.50 a cut, you can cut yourself, but would add up more for me, and I don't use big box store lumber for key projects. The cedar post was cut to spec for me and was about $17. I think I'll just use the measurements for that, it looks about right.

If they bend the rebar right, there shouldn't be much side pressure against the posts.

I don't mean to denigrate your landscaping timbers because your roses are going to hide that anyway, you get things done faster, but I just love the look of cedar, and I'm going to have to look at bare posts for who knows how long until I can get some roses selected, bought and going on them.

I just love that arbor you built; it's gorgeous and looks rock solid, looks like you did use different lumber for that, can't tell what it is, looks like cedar somewhat.

I hope I get to see photos when you get things growing up there. You'll be having neighbors and garden lovers wanting to visit your garden up close and personal :-).

Looking back over my post I can see that I didn't mention that the 4x4s were set in concrete. But my situation is different than yours in that I don't have to worry about the frost heave since I'm in a different zone and they are 2 feet into the ground which is below our frost line. I was mainly worried about the weight of the roses and the effect of wind. I made a 300 pound man climb it and try to wiggle it to make sure it was sound!
Ceder would be much prettier. Cost is a big factor for me, or else I would prefer to use ceder. Not just for the looks, but for the resistance to rot. All of the timber we used were pressure treated pine, even on the arbor. That price for cedar sounds really good - I've never seen it for so cheap down here.
No need to worry about offending me. I visited some mature rose gardens and saw how the beautiful structures were completely hidden by plants and decided that cheap and functional is better than expensive, especially since we can't afford expensive! I am planning on building another, much much longer trellis just like this, going down the side of the orchard. But that's a project for next winter. For now I'm just collecting the climbers to go on it.
I'm no engineer and can't really speak for how well the baffle box would work. Sounds good, but what do I know? Try not to disturb the soil on either side of the box as you are putting them in, because packing soil is just an illusion of strength. 50 years from now the soil you moved will still be considered "disturbed" and will be less stable than undisturbed soil. Disturbed soil will be less likely to hold up to the wind if the trellis is being rocked. That's just something I've learned from doing trenching work. We have to protect the men in the hole and have to consider the soil as disturbed even if the earth was moved in the 20s to install the original water line.
Carrie

The pictures on this thread are just breathtaking. Cweathersby, your garden looks lovely. I wonder if I would be able to get cattle panels in the Denver area. I'm thinking maybe I could use something like that to put between some trellises I put in last summer. I have a small back yard, about 45' by 36'and the trellises are against an east-facing fence in a pretty sheltered area.
Here is a picture:{{gwi:22491}}

do you think I could simply attach the cattle panel to the existing fence posts and/or the trellises? I think I need something between each trellis for the roses to climb on. Or would I need to buy 4x4's and sink them in concrete? I just can't figure out how I would do it. I would have to get someone to help me or hire someone as I am a single retired woman, and not very handy at that. Or is there some other better alternative? I would appreciate any advice any of you have.

Thanks,

Marlene

I went to Idaho for a week and found a ton more emails from this thread.

Carrie - for your enclosed rose arbor I can just picture myself sitting in there enjoying the roses - how did you make the circular wood part? The cattle panel trellis - what a great idea - that will be really spectacular when it is all covered. How did you attach the cattle panels to the wooden posts? Cattle panels might have been sturdier than the rebar panels I used for my metal arbor.

I am glad to see others know about mixing concrete first and then putting it into the whole for posts - it really makes a difference. We get some high winds here and the whole thing can be blown over if not put in correctly. We don't get the frost heaving here but wind can be just as destructive.

My roses along the fence were looking so good and we had two days of rain and lots of them were knocked over with the weight of the rain - perhaps today they will look a little better. I am going to post some of them on the identification forum to see if others can identify them - they were planted by a previous ownwer. So far those identified were Midas Touch, Angle Face, Mr. Lincoln and Double Delight. I am amazed at those who can identify roses - there are so - so many.

Marlene, cattle panels would work - I am not sure of their cost or how much they weigh - but you might be able to utilize the rebar panels - like I did on my metal arbor and use fence clips to attach to your wood fence. Those fence clips are hard to hammer in - I tried hanging a metal rooster display to my potting shed with them and could hardly get them to go in. Perhaps someone with knowledge about fence clips could clue me in on how to get them to penetrate the wood?

Robert, you are right about not using expensive materials - my cecile is covering up my arbor and I could have gotten away with a lot less money and utilized it elsewhere in the garden - if I had only asked here beforehand.

Here are 2 structures that I made. For the large curved one, I sank pressure treated wood 4 x 4's and then "wrapped" it in cedar planks. The top is just curved cedar board and this picute was actually taken before I put 18" 2x2 pieces across the top. I think I spaced them about 16" apart. I moved before my rose made it across the top so unfortunately I dont have pics with it covered. This wasnt a hard job but does require 2 people/ladders.

The white one was easy as pie. Simply 2x2's cut to size, then painted well on all sides, then assembled.

The one in the very back was all cedar, purchased from a garden shop for wayyy too much money....but it was a nice one ;o)

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Ronda

Ooops..I did find one with the top completed:

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Marlene,
You may be able to purchase cattle panel up there. I found mine at Tractor Supply. I would think that any store geared towards farmers would carry it. Without being there and seeing the fence first hand, I can't tell you for sure whether it would work. Two potential problems. 1) The existing fence may not be quite sturdy enough to handle the weight of cattle panel + mature roses. 2) The fence being so close will prevent air circulation and the roses may be more succeptible to blackspot. But you could always try it and see. You could use the cattle panel as an aid to training the climbers horizontally. It sure will muck up the look of your existing trellises, though. Another possible alternative: maybe you could attach eye hooks to the fence and tie the rose canes to those. That would let you train the roses horizontally without putting in an eyesore like the cattle panel. OR maybe your climbers will have flexible enough canes to let you wind them up the trellises that you have.

Springvillegardner,
I don't know how the circular part was made. My dad and brother did that part. I had made the rest but got stuck on exactly how I would get wood to bend to make a circle!
The cattle panel was attached to the 4x4s by those big huge U shaped nails. I don't know what they are called, just looked at Lowe's until I found something that would work.
For anyone looking for cattle panel, the only size I've ever seen is 4' x 16'. I cut them in half to make 4'x8' sections. So it only took 4 sheets of it to make a 32' "wall" along the garden. At $14 each that only comes to $56. Of course the 4x4s and concrete made the total cost of the project add up to more than that, but the whole project cost less than my one metal arbor that leads into the enclosed rose garden.
Carrie

Thanks, Carrie and springvillegardens for your helpful ideas. Springvillegardens, what is rebar panel? You mentioned I might be able to use rebar panel.

And Carrie, I like your idea of eye hooks. That might work, especially if I use long ones that extend out a bit, if there are such things. I hadn't thought about the cattle panels mucking up the look of my trellises, because I was visualizing them being covered up with roses. But that would take a long time, if they ever grow that much. The roses don't get a lot of sun, six hours at the most. I was just thinking about training them to grow horizontally. Maybe I could just get some galvanized wire and string it from one trellis to another in a few places. Or do you think that would look tacky? Also, I thought of getting some pieces of simple lattice to go between the trellises, maybe paint them brown, and they wouldn't have to extend completely between the trellises. I think I'll just kind of play it by ear and see how much they grow this summer. They are own-root roses; don't they grow more slowly?

One more thing: linrose, I was wondering how you sunk the lattice that you spray-painted brown on the side of your house, into the ground? Did you anchor it in cement or something? I think it is a very attractive lattice.

You all have such beautiful gardens. I hope maybe someday mine will look halfway as great.

Thanks all,

Marlene

Has anyone regretted painting a trellis or arbor? What is the upkeep?

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What a great thread with lots of fantastic ideas. Here's an update on the Gloire de Dijon arch, filling in nicely and loaded with buds.
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Sue

Love the rainbow!
alida

I agree...you can't get that at Home Depot!!

Would you believe I brought it back from Oregon? No? Marji took it while I was on the road coming home. We actually drove through the end of a rainbow in Corvallis, all gleaming with the refracted colors. That was incredible and then I came home to this photograph on my desktop. Serendipity. Oops! Back to the arbors and trellises...

Sue, what a great shot, a curved arbor and a rainbow overhead.

ronda_in_carolina, what a beautiful rose, what is it's name? Also, what type of wire mesh is that on the trellis?

Marlene, I got the panels at Home Depot in the same section that the rebar is kept. They may not be called rebar panels, I think they are used to put in concrete to strengthen it. They came in 4x8 sections which meant I didn't have to cut them to use them for my metal arbor. Here is a picture of the metal arbor. The panels are wired around the rebar. I built the metal arbor last year and just planted a Joseph's Coat rose on either side. I have got to get an updated photo - I redid my perennial bed adjacent also and it looks much better - actually got most of those weeds pulled out.
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springville....I don't be a partypooper...but the arbor in the photo above IS DEFINITELY gonna need more support. I love the effect of it, but, once the roses add some weight to it..it's gonna be history. It may be able to support some annual vines (moonflower, black-eyed susan vine, morning glories, etc).

Robert

Wow Sue, what a shot! Driving through the end of the rainbow was really cool. My visa card tells me that the pot of gold was sitting behind our back seat :)

My rebar arbors are plenty strong. They are made from 5/8ths and set in concrete. The climbers desperately need pruning so they are HUGE and HEAVY. Those arbors don't even waver under the weight.
Cheryl

Robert, I actually built that arbor for my perennial morning glory, if you look real close on the left side of the arbor you will see the morning glory, but... after I built the arbor, in my warmer zone 9 the morning glory started taking over everything, my perennial bed, the dry creek bed and so I had to take it out (and I am still finding roots and sections coming up all over the place) so then I planted hardenbergia and we got down to 15 this winter and about a month of colder than normal temperatures and the hardenbergia didn't survive, so I have just planted the Joseph's Coat roses on either side. The arbor actually has made it through two wind storms of 40 mph winds but the wind direction is through the arbor rather than against it (I kept the prevailing wind direction in mind when I orginally put the arbor up). But I do have some landscape timbers I can strap to the sides if it starts to get too rickety. The rebar uprights are hammered into the ground with a T post driver and I put an 18 inch length of iron pipe in the ground and then hammered the rebar into that. So we shall see how long the arbor remains stable.

I saw on HGTV one time where someone built a curved rebar arbor with the rebar long enough to span both sides - a curved or arched structure might be stronger than a rectangular one - but I don't know where to get rebar that long or have a way to haul it.

I just took an updated picture of my rebar arbor today - the Joseph's Coat is about 2/3 the way up on each side of the arbor with a few sparse canes - here it is. I took this picture from the other direction, so the perennial bed I had to redo is on the right hand side of the arbor.
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Cheryl, do you have any photos of your rebar arbors you could post? I would love to see them. Thanks

Here are some pics from 2005. The first is of a section of the trellis that is along the entire back yard fenceline. The roses have grown up a lot since then, but this older pic shows the trellising itself better. They are arbors, opened up and run as trellising. I have three of them set up as arbors as well.

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Front corner (Zephy, w/ Constance Spry in the background)
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My front arbor in 2005 - Crepuscule on the near side, Jaune Desprez on the other - much bigger now, lol):
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But here's 'Seagull' and 'Old Blush, Cl.' on my favorite "trellis" of all (an old Italian Prune tree):

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All my trees have roses in them - that's what they're for, right?

I used fencing from Home Depot and I believe it was called 'Economy' ?? Any will work. The rose is crepuscule...beautiful!!

It was easy to build. You need 2 12' foot 4x4s and one 6' 4x4. Cut the 6 foot in half. You will use L-bars to attach the cross beams so you wont have to worry about drilling through a 4x4. I used a staple gun to fasten the screening and added 2 finials to the top.

HTH

Cheryl, great to hear from you on the forum. Were you able to figure out how to use Photobucket so that we can see your arbors? I'll post an image from your garden in the meantime. You're sure to have better images - I can't find my file from your garden anywhere. Guess that means I'm on my way to your house in June!

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Sue

Thanks for posting that photo Sue! Here are a couple more. The first was taken the year after they were installed and the second photo was taken last year. My husband made 6 of them for me along with various other supports. He thought the 5/8 rebar would be hard to bend but it wasn't afterall. You can kinda see from the photo how heavily laden with roses they are and they are plenty strong. In the second photo Bleu Magenta is on the left, Francois Juranville in the middle and Leontine Gervais is on the right. Various mosses are in the foreground.
Cheryl

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Cheryl, thank you for posting those. Your allee is wonderful. Sue I like your shot through the arbor too. Cheryl, did your husband weld the bars between the two pieces of rebar - that looks so nice.

Robin, I love how you used arbors as a trellis on the chain link - what a good idea. And your roses in the trees are so beautiful - that Seagul must light up the shade - I don't have enough shade around here for that one, but maybe some day. I can just make out your sign - stop and smell the flowers - how cute. My husband said he wants to put up a sign in my garden "Weeds free, you pick" - I might just take him up on it.

Someone asked about upkeep and painting of arbors - I painted mine, but as you can see below, I am not worried about painting it again - it will soon be overtaken by the rose and that is just fine - more shade for summer. I do prime and paint my wood though - so the wood lasts longer and the priming helps to keep it from peeling.

Here's my Cecile Brunner's this year:
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I must be missing something or just dumb, but all I get when I click the above PhotoBucket links is their home page. Can't figure out how to get to the pics. Sorry, in need of remedial education, I guess.

Me too. . . Would love to see the photos on PhotoBucket but I get the same thing Sherryocala gets. All remedial education appreciated :-).
Cat

Yes, this is a timely thread! I have 3 climbers and am trying to figure out what to build for them to climb. Space is not a problem. I am concerned if I go the low cost route, i.e. cattle panel/wire, it will look ugly most of the year. And an evergreen vine would take over. How do you all cope w/ how it looks in the winter? And, do you have any trouble w/ your trellis bending from the weight? Two of these climbers are supposed to be a minimum of 10 ft. Brandy
BTW, I can't access those pics either.

ok the honey bunches of oats pop up, made my post disappear and this is the second time I am trying to post this.

Sorry, I cleaned up my photobucket account and didn't realize this post was till going - so here are links to the photos again. If you want to use my photos, please ask, It just irks me to see my photos in magazines with other people's names on them. Thx. Cecile Brunner is on a strong wooden arbor, Joseph's Coat isn't so agressive, hence the rebar arbor.

When I take more pictures I will post photos of own root climbing Devoniensis and Madam Alfred Carriere - this year they are finally climbing up to go over my storage shed/potting shed - this might have been a mistake - I wanted some shade on that building and wanted it to look kind of overgrown and cottagy - may be getting more than I bargained for.

Hopefully you can access these photos this way - if not please let me know. thx.

Cecile Bunner in 2006
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/springvillegardens/?action=view&current=cecilebrunnerrosearbor.jpg
Cecile Brunner in 2007
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/springvillegardens/?action=view&current=cecilebrunner22007.jpg
Joseph's Coat rebar arbor
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/springvillegardens/?action=view&current=rebarrosearbor.jpg
Herb Garden pergola newly planted with a type of jasmine vine, the hargengerbia didn't like last winter's cold snap.
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/springvillegardens/?action=view&current=herbgardenpergola.jpg

Looking forward to your shed photos, since I'm trying the same thing with Cramoisi Superieur CL. But I have a long way to go yet.
Thanks for the pictures. Very educational.

It's so easy to imbed a photo in your messages. (For those who aren't as familiar with posting photos from photobucket, here's your 'remedial education', as suggested by rivercat.) I find it easier if I have my album open in a separate browser window -- that way I can click back and forth. Click on the line under your chosen photo that says 'html tag'. This automatically copies it to your clipboard. Click back over to here to your composition, and paste. It's that easy.

springvillegardens - thanks for the links... your Cecile Bunner looks floriferous...definitely going to order that next year.

As to how it looks in winter ...
Actually, my rose garden is located a little ways from the house, so I don't remember how it looked in winter. If it looks bad then I wouldn't have thought about it one way or the other since it's not in my face. I actually surrounded the rose garden by evergreens so that I wouldn't have to see those leafless thorny canes during the winter time.
But I built a 2nd rose garden closer to the house and used cattle panel in it also, so I guess if it's ugly then I'll just have to deal with it.
BTW, I think that if you used 4x4s on each side and then across the top that it wouldn't look VERY bad, even in winter. The part going across the top would give a finished look to it.
Strength wise; I got a 300+ pound friend to climb to the top of the trellis and try to shake it when it was 1st built. It didn't move. That baby isn't going anywhere.

Thank you CW. That's a good idea about the 4x4's, and a hedge. Maybe I could plant a low one around the outside of the bed. Also, I could use that green-coated vinyl wire- that would blend in better. I don't know how much more expensive it would be. Here, that wire is 50.00 for a 50 ft. roll that is 4 ft tall. Brandy

Wow, what beautiful structures everyone has! You are all a very creative bunch of rosarians.
Here is one that I built with 4x4s set in concrete, 4x6 "lintel", and copper trellises on the sides. I still have not put the cross pieces on the top.
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Closer view:
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The trellis:
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Now I'm working on an "allee" made with rebar arches mounted on 4x4 posts. I really like Cheryl and mendocinorose's tunnel/allees, too. And awesome double rainbow Sue! Did you see the faint second rainbow outside of the first? That is so cool that you saw the end of one. I always wondered what they look like.
-Stephanie

That is really impressive, Stephanie. What an artistic trellis! Looks great even w/ nothing growing on it. Brandy

Thanks, Brandy! I was pretty proud of how it turned out.
-Stephanie

I just finished putting this up over the week-end. It was my first one that I've built.

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/18209750/312357436.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/18209750/312357444.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/18209750/312357464.jpg

Does anyone know where I can find a free pattern for a wood arbor and trellis that would be very study for a Cecile Brunner? I have a Georgian house built in 1947 and want to maintain the character of the house throughout the garden

Somehow I missed this first time around. I was away alot in April.

I made this one from lumber for about $50. Don't notice the clunkiness when it is covered in vines. If I had it to do over, I would have made it wider.

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That's really nice, Harry. Is that only one rose and is that rose Westerland?
molly

Thanks Molly. There is a Westerland on each side. There is also two young Betty Corning clematis - note small blue flowers.

Lurker here. I don't even grow antique roses, but I did just finish building a pergola with a swing.
Jim

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