Suzy,
I'm familiar with the lax mounding habit of pocket climbers like 'Moonlight'. What I have in mind are more stiff-growing, erect roses (probably like 'Altimissimo'), which I would start out by pruning the long canes to 3'-4' high, then let them develop their flowering canes, hoping to get a stiffly upright, rather open 5'-8' high shrub at full growth. I have no idea whether it would work, of course. My 'Moonlight' (much smaller than yours) and 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' are both grown as shrubs, while a young 'Goldfinch' is supposed to be making itself at home in a hedge.
Melissa

Yes, any stiffish climber can be pruned into a shrub by cutting back the long canes as you describe and cutting back laterals after blooming. I grow a couple that way.

If it does get windy, you might want to consider a compromise. I had a number of those metal circular obelisk thingies which come in packs. Generally, they are a bit puny but I just use the bottom half or even the bottom third to give me a little hollow column which the rose grows up and out of the top. The basal canes get a little protection and support and it gives a rather nice fountain look while keeping the canes from squashing along the ground. I also had several redundant metal waste bins (I cut the bottoms out with an angle grinder)from our council tip - these fulfilled a similar purpose. I might even consider making a little timber framelet as Meg is definately at risk from breaking away from the base.

Aloha grows as a bush for me of its own choosing. It got to just under 6' tall and stopped. I had Mme Caroline Testout (oh, what a beautiful thing she must be without black spot), but she was lashed to a sturdy trellis, so I don't know if she would flop or stand. She had really long laterals that were all over the place. How would you insure that the laterals were growing horizontally for maximum bloom? I guess it's hard for me to picture these floppy plants (stiff-caned or not) being freestanding AND erect. I wish Michaelg would elaborate on this. Aloha definitely stands straight up and blooms at the top of canes, but I still have to hold her vertical with a loop of TV wire. It hasn't thrown any laterals to speak of yet. Now why does a shrub rose stand up on its own but Aloha will not? I grow Parade, and the laterals it throws are 6' long before they bloom, so I don't think it would work. I've always been curious about this. How much cutting can a climber take and still bloom?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, with a stiff climber grown as shrub, you don't try to get the canes horizontal; rather by repeated pruning you induce branching and a lot of near-vertical shoots that bloom at the end. So, cut a basal cane to 3-4 feet and you get two shoots from the top; cut these back to a few eyes after blooming and each produces two shoots, and so on. Once you get enough yardage in the branches, the plant may stop producing climberlike shoots routinely.

I haven't grown Parade, but I have Aloha and Clair Matin as self-supporting shrubs pruned as I described above.

Wow, Michaelg. I don't suppose you have any photos of these climbers-turned-shrubs, do you? I would love see to them. This is kind of revolutionary.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Yes, you can grow many climbers as shrubs. Depending upon the room you have and how vigorous the variety is, your results can very widely. Here, Banksiae is kept machetied as a shrub like an oleander or juniper. It paves itself with flowers all over the surface every spring. I have grown Silver Moon as a large, freestanding "shrub", allowing it to build on itself until the result was easily six feet high, eight or so feet thick and easily twelve to fifteen feet long. Altissimo and Sally Holmes were kept as "shrubs" for eighteen years. I didn't have any difficulties with the canes snapping, even though this was a very windy site in a canyon in the mid Southern California desert. You'll find that many "climbers" tend to grow shorter, but quite thicker canes when they have to support themselves. The tissue formation is used to reinforce the strength of the cane at the expense of elongating it.

You'll find this more successful with Cl. HTs, floribundas and Large Flowered Climbers than with rambler types because of their tendency to produce heavier, stiffer canes.

Another idea you can try was very successfully used at The Huntington by Clair Martin with the Austin Roses. Self pegging is where you take stakes for the initial, heavier growth, then wind the new growth back on itself in loops or swags so the plant ends up supporting itself to a large part. I've taken large, heavy stakes to create uprights like fence posts, then securing the canes to them like the rails of a fence. That creates screens in places you normally wouldn't have them, adding height and privacy to areas. I've used it to provide a surround for garbage cans on the edge of the garden; to block undesired views of dog runs, a/c units and ugly neighboring structures. It makes a nice break between the drive and garden, too.

If you want a ready made example of the answer to your question, drive around and look at all of the Dr. Huey plants which have been hedge clippered into shrub form. Unless it's a very severe climate where it freezes, I'll be most cities have MANY examples of it. Kim

I grew Pierre de Ronsard successfully as a large shrub for many years before a gopher got it. I'm trying again now with a remnant I was able to salvage. This year I decided the HT climber Jacob's Ladder could probably be grown that way. I took down its support structure, pruned it hard, and will see how that turns out. It has the same kind of sturdy building canes that PdR has. I don't think this would be as successful a strategy with a climber that threw out long, whippy canes. However, I am experimenting with the Bourbon rose Louise Odier this year. I've always grown it on an obelisk, but have never been happy with it. This year I'm going to try to make it be a big shrub. If it doesn't work -- and I admit I'm quite dubious about it -- I'll move it to the fence and train it horizontally. I suspect that would be the best solution. I just couldn't bring myself to move it this year. What a job that will be!

Rosefolly

My Cl. Pinkie stands against a wall but, rather than training it upward, I've tried to make it into a large shrub. Since it's less than three years old I haven't ever pruned it. What I do is to pinch off the new shoots at the ends of the canes regularly in the hope that the rose will redirect its strength toward the middle of the bush. So far it seems to be working reasonably well, but the bloom has not been outstanding. I'll be watching it this spring to see whether it blooms more now that it's more mature. It unfortunately also doesn't get as much sun as it should and last year it mildewed spectacularly. If it does bloom well this spring I may try to prune it somewhat and fertilize it again to see if I can make it more bushy in the future.

Ingrid

Goodness, this is all quite interesting and encouraging. It sounds like my ideas are on the right track. Thanks for the input, Suzy, Michael, Sherry, Kim, Paula, Ingrid. Paula, I've always grown 'Louise Odier' as a shrub, with no difficulty. Kim, 'Dr. Huey' isn't used as a rootstock in Italy as far as I know; 'Laxa' is probably most common. My 'Aloha' is also growing as a shrub like you describe.
Anyway, now I'm ready to go and start hedging those climbers! Thanks, folks!
Melissa

I grow (or used to grow) many climbers like bushes. It just works better for me this way. Mme Alfred Carrier is wonderful as a bush. Constance Spry, Illusion, Mme Isaac Perrier, Buff Beauty, Laguna, Awakening, Quadra and many others make great bushes for me. Most big Austins can be grown as a climber or shrub too. Abraham Darby, Teasing Georgia, Graham Thomas are good examples.
Olga

Melissa, thanks for the encouragement about LO. I really don't look forward to moving a long-established rose -- well, 14 years. Long enough.

Please let us know how your efforts turn out. While I love climbers, and I love to see them climb, it is also useful to have this flexibility available to us.

Rosefolly

A little different wrinkle to this conversation. I have E Veyrat Hermanos growing on a 8'x20' wide trellis that I built between 4x4's. I have no room there to grow it like a bush. It needs to be thin in order to walk past but can get as wide as it wants up above head height. Can I trim it hard - like say by shortening the canes by 5' (they're more than double that length)? Kind of a buzz cut of those cascading canes. Would it just start growing like a gigantic standard, piling upwards? I walked along Reve d'Or last month, basically doing this with no ill effects yet, but EVH is a much bigger climber, so I'm unsure.

This is EVH, having a really bad hair day. Plus this was a month ago, so he's bigger now.
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Here's RdO two weeks before the haircut.
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And after.
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Here's my version of Maman Cochet, Cl. This is an end-shot. There's 25 more feet of her along the trellis.
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I am going to trim EVH up. I just want someone to say I won't be ruining him. Thanks.
Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, I don't know how your plan will work, but the sight of your roses is almost enough to make me turn around and move right back to Florida. Thank Heaven my poor miserable cankered Teas have returned to life and are leafing out happily, forgetting the woes of our long, dark, wet winter. They're really looking quite good now, but I don't know if they'll ever have the dimensions your roses display. (But on the other hand, I can grow Gallicas and peonies.) Great photos: my compliments!
Melissa