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newbierosarian

David Austin's cut roses

newbierosarian
15 years ago

As shown here:

http://www.greenvalleyfloral.com/gardenroses.htm

What is it that dictates the growth of these roses? Hardiness? Size? Climate?

I understand they are 'greenhouse' roses but is that because the growth habit rules them out as shrub roses or because they are not hardy? Is it impossible to purchase these as bare root plants?

I particularly love Phoebe, Cymbeline and Juliet.

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Comments (18)

  • andreageorgia
    15 years ago

    They certainly look exquisitely beautiful, but are sold as cut flowers only. I guess you could order a bouquet and try to root them, but it is possible that they're treated to prevent rooting. I assume that DA is very protective of his products.

    Presumably, these roses need optimally controlled greenhouse conditions to stay healthy and produce the quality of flowers shown (and the quantity needed), and it's possible that the plants' growth pattern wouldn't look particularly appealing in a garden setting. I assume that disease resistance, or the lack thereof, may be one of the top reasons to keep them away from gardens. Alternatively, they may very well be suitable for garden cultivation, but are equally wonderful as cut flowers so DA uses them to exploit a perhaps lucrative market niche.

    I think that the prices for these bouquets, in the UK at least, are forbidding, or let's say they are most definitely aiming at an upscale market, including weddings and such. The pricing is perhaps also meant to discourage people from buying these roses in order to propagate them. And if this happens nonetheless, then at least DA made some very good money out of them. The man asks for anywhere from 50 British Pounds (99 US Dollars) for 10 roses to 120 British Pounds (238 US Dollars) for a bouquet of 30 roses. Most people will think twice before they give in to the temptation to order, barring very special occasions. Well, let's hope these roses will at least last longer than just a few days.

    Andrea

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    15 years ago

    Not necessarily either reason. Might be just because Austin doesn't want to sell them as bareroot plants. Perhaps they are difficult to propagate.

  • jerijen
    15 years ago

    We've grown A Austin named Cymbeline (AUSleen) -- if it is the same Cymbeline and not a re-cycled name -- here for decades. Outdoors, it is much more the silvery-blush it was originally described as being.
    Almost an extreme blush dilute of "coffee."

    It is completely resistant to mildew/rust, and has a very strong myrrh fragrance.
    It's not a big volume bloomer, but the blooms it produces are special.

    Jeri

  • steelrose
    15 years ago

    Another recommendation for Cymbaline--the blooms have an ethereal beauty that soothes the soul.

    Colleen

  • steelrose
    15 years ago

    PS: I got mine own-root from Heirloom. It's very healthy and growing to a good size but I suspect that, as a group, Austins are more vigorous when grafted.

    Colleen

  • andreageorgia
    15 years ago

    Difficult to propagate for *grafted* roses? I don't think so. But vigor or the lack thereof can be an issue. In Europe they don't even usually sell own roots, and these can be tricky to propagate.

    It would be interesting to know more about the marketing behind this.

    Jeri, did you check if your Cymbaline looks the same?

  • jerijen
    15 years ago

    Looks the same????
    It's much, much much paler than the rose shown above.

    Jeri

  • triple_b
    15 years ago

    Here is cymbaline. it lists a few places that carry her, assuming the information is current.

    Here is a link that might be useful: cymbeline

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    15 years ago

    Yes, even grafted roses can be difficult to propagate. The graft doesn't take, or the rose isn't vigorous on the graft.

  • triple_b
    15 years ago

    boy somebody had a heyday photoshopping those pictures to achieve the softness and perfection.

  • the_dark_lady
    15 years ago

    Last year I asked Michael Marriott (from David Austin Roses) about their cut roses.
    He said their cut roses are grown in Africa (if I am not mistaken), they are not intended for growing in the garden, they do not make a nice bush.
    Marina

  • andreageorgia
    15 years ago

    Thanks, Marina, that sounds about right - beautiful flowers on an unsightly bush. Now one has to wonder whether growing them somewhere in Africa (big continent last time I checked) makes these roses cheaper or more expensive, hmm, let me guess ... But the transport needed certainly won't help in reducing any carbon and other emissions. Maybe I'll shoot Michael an email and ask him.

    Come on, Jeri - 4 question marks and 3x "much." This was just just just a question. As in - a question.

    A.

  • Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)
    15 years ago

    Florist roses have to be very easy to propagate considering the amount of flowers that would need to be grown to fill the amount of orders...

    One main complaint about Austins is that they don't last long in the vase... If Austin actually created some roses that last longer than a week, exploiting that trait for profit would make sense

    I'm sure once he hybridizes newer better cut flowers, these will probably be marketed as garden roses...

  • anntn6b
    15 years ago

    Just as Marina did, I asked Michael Marriott about the roses currently sold in UK as cut flowers. He was adament that they aren't garden roses; that they need greenhouse growing conditions and cultural practices (and I'd guess one of the rootstocks reknowned for pushing blooms at the expense of bush health.)

  • pfzimmerman
    15 years ago

    Many breeders like Kordes, Tantau, Meilland, Delbard and now Austin grow roses for the garden and roses for the cut flower industry. Since many of the cut flower roses don't make good garden shrubs they don't release them that way. And since many garden roses don't make good cut flower roses for the florist industry they don't release them that way.

    Personally I think it's best they be kept apart. The last thing we need on the garden rose market are roses that are either fussy or don't make nice plants.

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    15 years ago

    Now, Paul, some of us consider those a "challenge". ;-))

  • phil_schorr
    15 years ago

    We are talking about two different roses here. You can tell by looking at the code names. The older one is Auslean, while the newer is Ausglade. Sales names may vary by country, and may be repeated for use with newer roses, but the code names always stay with their variety. By the way, the original sales name for Auslean is Cymbaline, while for Ausglade it is Cymbeline (note the slight difference in spelling). I know there is some controversy over the spelling of the former, but it was spelled with an "a" when the rose was first registered and David Austin has never changed it.

  • andreageorgia
    15 years ago

    Outsourcing this trade might not only cause additional environmental pollution inside the country of production, facilitated by lax environmental laws if there are any at all and through international transportation, but it is often also a guarantee for unfair and unhealthy working conditions and underpaid work, see links below.

    I'm not sure where exactly DA grows his cut roses, or what his workers' conditions are, but I think that it is good to know these basics anyway.

    See also this link, BBC:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/africa/1260248.stm

    Here is a link that might be useful: flower growing in Kenya